Legacy servers in response to incompetence

[Meerkats]

@henki000 said:
Do you have proof that telemetry data is junk? Do you have proof that they are balancing purely off telemetry statistic? Looking at dev videos where they explain telemetry system, they also include players opinions and dev opinions. So balance chances are not purely based on telemetry.
THESE GRAPHS HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, LOL.

“Include player opinions.”

Machine pistol nerf because… see, a lot of… a non-zero amount of people… regularly… about machine pistols… you know… they sometimes complain… with non-zero frequency… you gotta understand, machine pistols are just… you know, very contentious… especially in the community…

Nerf overperforming weapons by adding a fuckton of horizontal recoil because… random shot placement is highly conducive toward a competitive environment… said FUCKING NOBODY EVER.

But, hey, at least we’re getting a gimmicky, Hanzo memetard. That’s totally what a non-zero number of players actually good at the game wanted.

Oh, yeah, just cause Destiny is a console game, even though the devs extremely heavily relied on telemetry data for balance decisions like Splash Damage is now doing, there is nothing to learn. Lol, k.

@henki000 said:
“Reduced HP to 130 (was 140)”
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/the-lead-and-iron-update-january-22nd/
You realize Fragger used to have 150 HP right… if you’re new to the game, this discussion doesn’t really pertain to you.

@ARandomLugia said:
Actually, Fragger/guardian matchup aint that one sided. Just throwing the nade into the skyshield when it is already up is stupid, but a properly timed nade can easily put a stop to that spam preventing shield whilst it is still charging up or just went down.
Skyshield has extremely high uptime. And again, Guardian isn’t in ranked / competitive yet. The whole point is before you nerf the shit out of the merc who is most impacted by Guardian, maybe wait to see how Guardian impacts the game. We can agree to that, right?

[B_Montiel]

@Meerkats said:

@henki000 said:
“Reduced HP to 130 (was 140)”
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/the-lead-and-iron-update-january-22nd/
You realize Fragger used to have 150 HP right… if you’re new to the game, this discussion doesn’t really pertain to you.

He was 160 upon steam release and K121 was the weapon of choice at that time with him, two shotting lights on headshots with the ease of use of the current blishlok.

What you basically say throughout this topic is that they’ve gone totally wrong with how to balance fragger. What they’re currently doing is putting him on par with Nader, which seems to be their reference point over combat mercs, pretty much like they do with Sawbonez on medics. So right now Fragger is the nerf hammer’s anvil because the stats do not show enough similarities with Nader. And yes, for a good reason : a said skill Fragger currently has more impact than a same said skill Nader.

In essence, I’d have better see a total rebuild of his grenade to disable its 1 htk capabilities on mercs over 100/110 hp.

[bgyoshi]

Jesus I’ve never seen more salt over someone’s OP busted off the rails 100% pickrate merc main being nerfed to being actually vulnerable before.

Devs have said “We don’t want any class outperforming all others.”

Devs have said “We don’t want hard counters.”

Devs have said “5v5 is the dream format for Ranked.” (I personally have been shouting for 6v6 Ranked since my first forum post ever, it’s not gonna happen)

Devs have said “We will balance with telemetry and player input.”

Devs have said “Execution is gone.”

Devs have said “We’ll look into custom servers after release.”

If you don’t like it then this isn’t the game for you. They aren’t going to make Legacy servers because you liked the Fragger/Aura/(Aura/Sawbones)/Fletcher/Rando meta. They don’t want that. They want Assault/Medic/Medic/Engineer/Rando, with no specific merc fitting that role better than the others on every map. They want an organic game with shifting mercs, where pick rates are mostly even at the top level and mostly based on primary weapon instead of performance power. They want the skill in the player, not the merc, and Fragger is 100% a handicap-giving kill machine with a free double or triple every 15 seconds with no drawback.

Sorry dude.

[B_Montiel]

@Meerkats said:
Skyshield has extremely high uptime. And again, Guardian isn’t in ranked / competitive yet. The whole point is before you nerf the @$!# out of the merc who is most impacted by Guardian, maybe wait to see how Guardian impacts the game. We can agree to that, right?

Most impacted ? It’s not that hard to cancel your grenade. Delaying an airstrike after beacon throw is time travelling.

[Sorotia]

@henki000 said:
@Meerkats

Telemetry data is mostly junk?
Balancing purely off telemetry is dumb?

Do you have proof that telemetry data is junk? Do you have proof that they are balancing purely off telemetry statistic? Looking at dev videos where they explain telemetry system, they also include players opinions and dev opinions. So balance chances are not purely based on telemetry.

Stuff about destiny

Dirty Bomb is not Destiny. They have different devs and decicions. Different mechanics, they arent comparable in my opinion. While Destiny 1 is a pricy piece of junk for console peasants that like to RPG a FPS game, Dirty Bomb is free, competetive and designed for more mature audience. Telemetry isn’t just one thing that every game uses. You can do adapting right or wrong.

The nerf to Fragger isn’t 10 HP. It’s 20 HP.
“Reduced HP to 130 (was 140)”
https://www.dirtybomb.com/news/the-lead-and-iron-update-january-22nd/

Are you surprised they don’t know a damn thing they’re talking about…wouldn’t be surprised if they were just like Serious and hasn’t played the game for months. Just came to the forums to complain about a nerf and call the game a Moba.

[Sorotia]

@bgyoshi said:
snip

Yup…I can’t recall the last time I’ve ever seen a ranked match on twitch without a Fragger, he is the only merc besides Sparks I can think of that is pretty much a guaranteed pick…I mean heck I’ve even seen people take a Bushwacker over Fletcher and win.

But I guess it’s okay for people to to want to take one OP merc over a underperforming merc…because it benefits them. This game doesn’t need balance it needs more OPness…

Should be buffing his health to 200 like Rhino and his grenade should insta-kill anyone in range of it because they don’t care about balance.

[Meerkats]

@B_Montiel said:
In essence, I’d have better see a total rebuild of his grenade to disable its 1 htk capabilities on mercs over 100/110 hp.
…so… Fletcher…?

@bgyoshi said:
Jesus I’ve never seen more salt over someone’s OP busted off the rails 100% pickrate merc main being nerfed to being actually vulnerable before.
Here’s the way I see it: the question isn’t “who is a must pick in a viable team,” but rather “who is actually banned.” Fragger isn’t banned. If the best players aren’t banning Fragger, then he isn’t broken. Simple. So then the question becomes, who’s viewpoint is more valid? The cream of the crop or some random scrubs. Ooh, tough decision, but gonna have to go with the experts here. I want to play a good game, not a mediocre game and mediocre players, barring phenomenal insight, will only instruct you on how to build a mediocre game.

@bgyoshi said:
Devs have said “We don’t want any class outperforming all others.”
Proceeds to make a class-based shooter with a dedicated assault class whose singular job is to shit on other peeps. But maybe you’re right; I do have to admit I am very disappointed Sawbonez outperforms Proxy in reviving and healing. It’s been something that’s always bugged me, you know?

Also, Sparks, Fletcher.

@bgyoshi said:
Devs have said “We don’t want hard counters.”
Vassili, Aimee.

@bgyoshi said:
Devs have said “5v5 is the dream format for Ranked.” (I personally have been shouting for 6v6 Ranked since my first forum post ever, it’s not gonna happen)
Proceeds to complain certain mercs are overused in a format that doesn’t permit flexing / utility due to own design restrictions.

@bgyoshi said:
Devs have said “We will balance with telemetry and player input.”
Proceeds to “balance” machine pistols; nerf Stark, BR-16 and Dreiss by adding massive amounts of horizontal recoil, i.e. RNG.

OK.

@bgyoshi said:
If you don’t like it then this isn’t the game for you. They aren’t going to make Legacy servers because you liked the Fragger/Aura/(Aura/Sawbones)/Fletcher/Rando meta. They don’t want that. They want Assault/Medic/Medic/Engineer/Rando, with no specific merc fitting that role better than the others on every map. They want an organic game with shifting mercs, where pick rates are mostly even at the top level and mostly based on primary weapon instead of performance power. They want the skill in the player, not the merc, and Fragger is 100% a handicap-giving kill machine with a free double or triple every 15 seconds with no drawback.

To quote @LifeupOmega

@LifeupOmega said:
Anyway yeah, in agreement. Too many mercs have taken away from the core action and gun play of DB over the years. Could easily prune 50% of the roster and have a much more exciting game. Remember how much fun DBPro or w/e it was called was to play? Not having to hug a corner 24/7 cause someone decided to bring a recon on the other team was a joy.
If they wanted more pick diversity, it’s not going to happen in the restrictive format they designed. Not particularly interested in mistaking quantity for quality either as many people seem inclined to do. Would be silly tbh. But, hey, if you’re going to nerf Fragger “down to the level” of every other merc, then what are you going to give Fragger in recompense? This is a class based game. Every merc needs to have strong design dictating a role. If he’s not fragging, then what is he doing? Medic’ing? What even is “class-based?” Come on kiddos, put those thinking caps on.

@B_Montiel said:
Most impacted ? It’s not that hard to cancel your grenade. Delaying an airstrike after beacon throw is time travelling.
I’mma just point out you literally picked out the single time I typoed “merc” instead of “mercs,” so… good job… I guess?

@Sorotia said:
Are you surprised they don’t know a damn thing they’re talking about…wouldn’t be surprised if they were just like Serious and hasn’t played the game for months. Just came to the forums to complain about a nerf and call the game a Moba.
As much as you crush on @neverplayseriou, I don’t think dude’s ever going to return your feelings. Just stop.

[GatoCommodore]

yknow if SD want to nerf fragger/ add pick diversity for the sake of pick diversity they could have nerfed the grenade to only deal 100 dmg and buff the M4, K-121, BR-16 ammo/dmg

that would make it way less spammy cheese free kill and make him more gun oriented while nader is the spammy one and thunder is the non lethal version.

and rhino? we dont talk about rhino.

[henki000]

@Meerkats
No, I’m not new. I didnt really get your response. How this is supposed to be a constructive conversation?

[bgyoshi]

@henki000 said:
@Meerkats
No, I’m not new. I didnt really get your response. How this is supposed to be a constructive conversation?

It’s not, he’s just complaining because his 150 HP crutch is now the same size as everyone else’s.

@Meerkats said:
Here’s the way I see it: the question isn’t “who is a must pick in a viable team,” but rather “who is actually banned.” Fragger isn’t banned.

That doesn’t mean he’s not the best assault merc in the game, because he is. If Ranked was 7v7, Fragger would be hard banned.

@bgyoshi said:
Devs have said “We don’t want any class outperforming all others.”
Proceeds to make a class-based shooter with a dedicated assault class whose singular job is to @$!# on other peeps. But maybe you’re right; I do have to admit I am very disappointed Sawbonez outperforms Proxy in reviving and healing. It’s been something that’s always bugged me, you know?

Good ol’ Apples n Oranges, you pro!

@bgyoshi said:
Vassili, Aimee.

Who counter…? Outsniping snipers with ARs is a trivial task. Spewing grenades, throwing nades, throwing stickies, medigun across the map…???

Proceeds to complain certain mercs are overused in a format that doesn’t permit flexing / utility due to own design restrictions.

I did? I must’ve missed the part where I complained, instead of pointing out facts

@bgyoshi said:
Devs have said “We will balance with telemetry and player input.”
Proceeds to “balance” machine pistols; nerf Stark, BR-16 and Dreiss by adding massive amounts of horizontal recoil, i.e. RNG.

OK.

I see you missed the patch notes where horizontal recoil was undone and set back to July 2015 settings.

If they wanted more pick diversity, it’s not going to happen in the restrictive format they designed. Not particularly interested in mistaking quantity for quality either as many people seem inclined to do. Would be silly tbh. But, hey, if you’re going to nerf Fragger “down to the level” of every other merc, then what are you going to give Fragger in recompense?

A 1htk grenade every 15 seconds that kills all mercs except Rhino. Oh wait, he always has had that.

Yeah they added too many mercs, but removing mercs would be a one way ticket to no more players. Especially since people paid money for them. I’ve already suggested turning Ranked into a rotating merc schedule. Pick 10 mercs that are legal in the current Season and players can only use them. Fresh meta every season, possibilities for more interesting merc combinations, so on.

All in all though, you’re right, we should go to the pros for input. What do the pros do? They put Fragger at 100% pick rate. Hm, I wonder why Fragger is the only 100% pick rate merc…?

[Sorotia]

@henki000 said:
@Meerkats
No, I’m not new. I didnt really get your response. How this is supposed to be a constructive conversation?

Better watch out or he will get his cronies to report spam and abuse because you dare not agree with his point of view! You too @bgyoshi

Just like serious he can’t accept any kind of criticism…can’t fathom that people may actually want a more fair game…that Fragger is exceptionally great and is literally the only character I’ve seen that is a 100% must have in competitive play that isn’t a medic.

[bgyoshi]

@Sorotia said:

Better watch out or he will get his cronies to report spam and abuse because you dare not agree with his point of view! You too @bgyoshi

Just like serious he can’t accept any kind of criticism…can’t fathom that people may actually want a more fair game…that Fragger is exceptionally great and is literally the only character I’ve seen that is a 100% must have in competitive play that isn’t a medic.

Old habits die hard. When people hate DB so much they’ll only play the top of the unbanned mercs, it’s kind of a kick to the face when that merc gets nerfed.

But he doesn’t want to quit because he remembers his “good ol’ days” of DB and just wants that back.

Hanging up the towel on something you used to like isn’t easy.

[Pumpkiller]

Don’t mind me, i’m just subbing for all of this juicy ad-hominiem stuff going on here.

[Eox]

Well, I guess the thread went far enough downhill for a tactical lock.

I’m not taking any sides, but I find it really awful that some of you can’t just talk without hitting each other because your opinions differ. I mean, would it be possible to have a conversation without ad hominem arguments tossed at each other’s face ? It’s not constructive, it’s just obnoxious and annoying for everyone else.

Closing.