no, I use q for sprint
Lean
Anti
(Anti)
#22
Canāt speak for everybody on the team but I donāt think we feel lean suits the pace of the game we are going for, plus it uses up some really valuable keys on the keyboard! I donāt think itās something weāre likely to add at this stage.
acQu
(acQu)
#23
plus it uses up some really valuable keys on the keyboard
That is a reason, but i canāt let the reason be counted that it slows down gameplay.
I know i am running against some real big wall, because there is a lot of theory buildings to destroy, but āslowing down the pace of the gameā is a dogma as long as you didnāt implement it.
Also just to be sure we are on the same ground: what does lean mean ? How i imagine lean to be implemented i described above. Do you really think that W:ET got slowed down in pace because of that specific way they implemented lean? And was that neccessarily a bad thing? And how is āpace of the gameā defined ? Wouldnāt you think it is more favourable to let players decide to how they adjust their pace ?
Lean added a real value to games like W:ET and it was not a negative one. I would argue that W:ET was more fast-paced compared to DB. So that is really not a reason to not implement it, since it worked well in other games. Now what makes DB fast-paced? Probably the understanding that the game needs to be played like this: spawn, run, die, spawn, run, die (no options in between). The more options you add to players, the more they will find a niche they enjoy. If you will not try it, you wonāt know. As long as that stays the case it remains a dogma.
EDIT also the fact that it uses up keys. Probably the Q key. I donāt use it anyway and i think it should never have been there in the first place. It is actually an insult to intelligence in a way.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#24
It didnāt slow ETQW down for a second, neither did prone for that matter. What it did do was that it made positioning more important as players were better able to use their surroundings to their advantage when possible.
The Q and E keys reserved for having different uses is a bit of a weak reason, for a console game I could understand not using learn but for a PC thereās really no lack of keys.
spookify
(spookify)
#27
W and G to Lean
DB only needs a few keys, no different then another game. Actually less if you think about it. No Proneā¦ No Steady Score (Breath)ā¦ And No really need to us Iron-sightsā¦ I play FOV 90, it makes me sick to my stomach because the game isnt smooth but I can see the head a lot better.
Lean on offense should be called Peek
Lean on defense should be called Lean
No Slowing Down.
acQu
(acQu)
#28
Well, but when you say āpace of the gameā and almost all comments before reject the possibility of leaning in this game because it would slow down the gameplay and come up with stuff that it disrupts the concept of fast-shooter, then it really seemed you were refering aka reject because of that exact same reason. For me āpaceā is coupled to velocity or speed. So i must have misread that.
I just canāt let this stand, because it seems not thought out but rather a copy pasted opinion all friends have agreed on, because the other friend said it ā¦
But again, sorry if i misinterpreted that 
tokamak
(tokamak)
#30
Well okay with pace we would look at the duration of firefights. Lean and prone would indeed extend the duration of two teams interlocked in battle because players are better able to reduce their exposure.
Still, those happen to be the most memorable situations in ETQW for me, thereās a tension in such a shoot out that canāt be found in most duels that occur by having two players run into each other without a way to increase their cover.
Mustang
(Mustang)
#31
Lean was only powerful due to being able to look round corners without being seen.
Once that was fixed it became much less useful and not really needed.
acQu
(acQu)
#32
AFAIK ETpro had vanilla W:ET style lean, which shows that it was even there during the great days of comp W:ET. So if it would have been somehow negative or not favourable for the comps, it would have been removed, i am sure.
I would certainly use it, i also simply like to headbob, so if it is visible, you can do fun things Yeah sounds stupid, but in Arma2 it can always be a small joke aside.
As for length of firefight. For me this again would be one too many of the abstraction layers. You simply canāt theorize it, or if you attempt, you will not get real-world, actual results, but always something you have made up in your great tower of ivory ā¦ You really have to go down and really try it, otherwise you wonāt know (and even more important, donāt judge too quick and take it out immediately again).
As for: ādoesnāt fit the gameā, oh yeah, i think it would be beautiful
Kendle
(Kendle)
#33
Have to back up acQu on this, whereas Iām not a fan of lean and wouldnāt shed a tear if it wasnāt included, you canāt say itāll slow the game down because there games we know have it, that are the same type of game as DB, and which are faster, namely RTCW and ET, so itās already been proven in a sense. Theory-crafting is fraught with danger, especially when it goes against existing evidence.
Nail
(Nail)
#34
ETPro had lean for sure and when leaning right you could lob a grenade, not very well but corridors were scary sometimes, and Iām happy it wonāt be in DB
kilL_888
(kilL_888)
#35
well, leaning encourages leaning which basicly is hiding behind a corner which to me is borderline (hope thatās the right word) camping.
when you hide behind a corner, your position is stationary, ergo, you donāt run around, ergo it slows you down, ergo, it slows down gameplay.
i canāt even recall people using lean in both wolf:et and etqw. people ran around, strafejumping and stuff. really, it has been some years and my memories are not the best but leaning is not something that i recall at all from back in the days.
and i strongly agree that it eats 2 very important keys. āqā is my quick use ability, āeā my use key, āfā melee. there just is no room for lean.
Bloodbite
(Bloodbite)
#36
True, but thereās something about the feel of DBā¦ the size of the maps, the multitude of alternate routes through buildings and alleys and such. All of those combined with what the class//recoil/movement mechanics feel like where theyāre headedā¦ it really seems like DB is meant to keep you moving at all times. Always on your toes.
Weāll see how much that pace is influenced by the Recon unit once it is properly fleshed out and can steal uniforms/etc.
Perhaps the best way to look at it is the period the games are set in too. W:ET did have that WWII mentality of plowing forward, or flanking, or whatever. Traditional battlefield tactics. DB is very much an urban/guerilla environment, and when you stop moving in urban warfare, you give the enemy the advantage . It is the kind of environment you would feel tempted to use leanā¦ perhaps more than the momentum of objectives requires of people.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#37
Camping is a non issue where one team is fighting against the clock to secure an area.
Likewise, currently defenders seem to profit more from not having lean as itās really hard for attackers to pushforward without overly exposing themselves.
jopjop
(jopjop)
#38
I like lean I like fat too I dont like to be able to shoot while doing either derp
acQu
(acQu)
#39
That last ergo is not true. It slows YOU down you, yes, but only on a micro level aka the player-level, the gameplay still flows on. On Stopwatch matches you canāt just hide and wait for others to come out and the other one will do so as well, which will result in a total hiding game?!. One team has to attack. So with leaning you might get an advantage as defender, you as actual person, but it doesnāt slow down the overall gameplay. But lean can also be used offensively. It is not only a defenders advantage. It also depends on the map flow you are currently in. For example take W:ET, Supply, Stopwatch, when the truck is loaded and ready to go. The defenders have to keep it from moving, so they are the ones moving. The attackers can use it for their purpose here as well.
Also: this is just microlevel. It depends on the person to use it. It wonāt slow down gameplay. It would only slow down gameplay if you could shoot while lean + (to make it more extreme) be not visible, because that is OP. But since i can imagine SD could add a visible lean, the information is on the table and that is a good thing. It then again might evolve into hiding once you spotted a player leaning around the corner, but that is all dependend on the way the player wants to engage. I say if you are not able to use the environment for your advantage anyway, then there is something wrong in the game.
What i certainly do not favour is that concept of running our heads in the butts all over again. There gotta be some tactical element. Lean is a tactical element, that is on the micro/playerlevel.