Knowing is Half the Battle (Class Recognition)


(sachewan) #161

Class recognition and targeting was a HUGE part of organized play in both Rtcw and ET (I’m assuming ETQW as well). Sacrificing it in Brink for the sake of the customization system was a huge mistake imo as it reduces the tactical options you are presented with as a player and as a team. The only ‘concession’ is that since you get the class on hover-over it makes it decent for gibbing prioritizing, but when it actually matters in battle it is too limited.

I think the idea for a server setting to have set outfits for each class that competition could use would be good. It’s already been posted but Valve was spot on with making their class silhouettes stand out (before they ruined them with hats) because the player needs that kind of information immediately if you want tactical, strategic play to be paramount and not simple deathmatch.

It also made individual player calling a lot more tedious, since in the past you could call out ‘engi going to CP’ and your teammate would know exactly who you are talking about by the visual appearance of the enemy. Now everyone just blends together because of the customization and the lack of class specific features. You’ve even seen teams in what few scrims there were in this game using all the same outfits so that their enemy couldn’t actually call any plays on specific targets.


(wolfnemesis75) #162

The point was, if you don’t know what Class an enemy is, then you’d have to be more savvy and pick up on more complicated behavioral cues and indicators and use instinct and experience to quickly formulate the best response within a team to achieve your goal. Thats hard. :slight_smile:

If they add a mode for Class Recognition. Whatever. Maybe it makes more people happy. :slight_smile:


(BioSnark) #163

Hard? So, it makes actual tactics less viable because picking a random target doesn’t waste time. That’s just great.

@Jimmy James: Hey, now! Don’t you recognize being “hardcore” when you see it?


(Oschino1907) #164

LOL this arguement is way past its prime, literally both sides (even the side I am on) really have no solid proof to back up why or why not this or that is or is not implemented into the game. Dont see why we cant agree we all have valid points but that this game has gone another direction and (more then likely) meant to do so. There could be another mode/option to please those who prefer the older style, hell recall the COD4 old school mode (weapon pick ups, now thats old school), it might not fit into the main game but can be viable for those that want it barring the cost to add is reasonable. More or less its NOT Brink but could be doen to help the comp sector if they want to keep the comp sector around and happy… Thats up to SD and not us.


(wolfnemesis75) #165

[QUOTE=BioSnark;370982]Hard? So, it makes actual tactics less viable because picking a random target doesn’t waste time. That’s just great.

@Jimmy James: Hey, now! Don’t you recognize being “hardcore” when you see it?[/QUOTE]

Who said anything about picking a random target or wasting time? Is that how you approach the game? Currently, I have little trouble distinguishing classes. Sorry if some do. Perhaps that’s one area that will make the game a bit easier for some who struggle: Put a red cross symbol on the chest of the medic, force class models etc. That way you can yell to a team mate, “They have 2 Engineers and 1 Medic, 2 Operatives, and and 3 Soldiers over there, proceed with caution!” “All Operatives Down!” I’m all for adding depth. Just don’t think this is much of an issue in Brink currently since there are symbols above each dudes head, and would rather have more maps or time put into more DLC in general. :slight_smile:


(Thundermuffin) #166

You don’t understand that the symbols only appear once you move your mouse over them and that is inefficient. I should be able to know what class it is without having to do that. I can see guys off to the side in TF2 and know there’s 1 scout and a demoman sticky jumping in and be able to deal with that either directly or relay it to my team over VoIP.


(gooey79) #167

You’ve got 8 guys running at you, only one is the class that can complete the objective. How do you know which one that is with enough time to make the decision to forego the other 7 in an attempt to buy your team some time?

Crosshairing is not a valid enough ‘tactic’ as you might has well have simply pulled the trigger if you took the time to line up. So, what do you do?


(DarkangelUK) #168

[QUOTE=*goo;370995]You’ve got 8 guys running at you, only one is the class that can complete the objective. How do you know which one that is with enough time to make the decision to forego the other 7 in an attempt to buy your team some time?

Crosshairing is not a valid enough ‘tactic’ as you might has well have simply pulled the trigger if you took the time to line up. So, what do you do?[/QUOTE]

Crosshairing comes under “time to process little information”, if you’ve got time to aim at someone to see what class each enemy is, then everyone on the opposite team has died of a heart-attack and is stood still. There is nothing tactical or thoughtful about picking a random target and hoping for the best. In fact I’m pretty sure wolf asked the question once of why you would even shoot the medic 1st. It’s not his fault though, again he has never played a game where the classes are important, and that’s with regards to which one to play and which one to shoot… but again his ignorance is blinding him to the reason as to why you would hit the preferred target in the 1st place, he just doesn’t see why. He’s stuck in the blind Brink fan mode of “Brink does it this way so = best!”… I’ve not heard anything come close to a compelling contrary beyond ‘cos that’s the way it is’.

I’ll say it again… tactics over playing dress-up any day


(gooey79) #169

I agree, class recognition is an important feature that’s not yet been designed into the game in a useful fashion.

On the subject of customisation, I do quite like it. Although, that’s only for about 5 minutes and once per character (of which I only have 4 - one per class) and then I forget about the customisation - it’s irrelevant. It’s also not a draw in game, I’m playing the game not looking at the ‘pretty’ combinations.

Class recognition, based on my experience of other games deepens the tactics. It doesn’t detract from the experience, or make it easier regardless of what some would suggest. I suspect this is a case of assumption without experience.

Personally, I think removing useful class recognition is just another casualty of ‘accessibility’.

P.S Batman (1989) is on TV right now. My favourite one - ‘Where does he get those wonderful toys?’

:slight_smile:


(V1cK_dB) #170

Well…and there it is. That’s why Wolfnemesis and I could never agree on most things. I want to define the classes but keep the customizations because it improves GAMEPLAY and he wants to play dress up over GAMEPLAY. LMAO.


(V1cK_dB) #171

So leave it up to luck…lottery…randomness. Yeah…that sure as hell takes a lot of skill. Just like the weapon spreads that you seem to think are fine but even SD has acknowledged they need to fix. Yep. Everything is perfect…for bad players who need randomness to compete.


(wolfnemesis75) #172

Er… have you been in the Weapon Tweak section? Might want to take a look see. And stop campaigning against the man called wolfnemesis. Just makes ya look dull. K. :slight_smile:


(V1cK_dB) #173

What about the randomness that you champion in this thread? Just kill everyone right? Kill the first person you see…medic, engineer…whatever. It doesn’t matter right. If you kill the right guy…great! You got lucky you win!!! If you don’t…you lose. Randomness.

You see Wolfnemesis…people who play to win don’t like luck in FPS games. They want total control over the outcome by playing a game that rewards skills and tactics in every aspect of the game. But of course you wouldn’t understand that because you like randomness.

Btw…I’m not campaigning against any one person. I’m campaigning against people who don’t know what they are talking about. People like that have caused the FPS genre to go from amazing games 10 years ago to ADS COD clones 10 times a year. I need to be vocal and so do others who know what it’s like to play a game that takes skill.


(wolfnemesis75) #174

Time to hang up your cleats, Old Man River. May be time to put you out to pasture like old yeller. The times they are a changing…

and You stinking kids, stay off my lawn!! :smiley:


(MrFoxer) #175

Well that doesn’t happen very often. Either way, people usually don’t rush for the objective, presumably, you’d have enough time to stop them before they complete it anyway.


(Jimmy James) #176

Answer: Have more than one person on your team.

Solutioned!

Ooo, “cardboard extremed”! Nice example.

-JJ


(V1cK_dB) #177

People don’t rush the objective when you are playing bad people. When you play a good team it’s a rush to the objective in the beginning to try to get an upper hand and takeover a spot. Bad players spend the first 2 minutes buffing and giving each other crap in the spawn as the good team is already planting lol.


(V1cK_dB) #178

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;371100]Answer: Have more than one person on your team.

Solutioned!

Ooo, “cardboard extremed”! Nice example.

-JJ[/QUOTE]

I’m extreme but you’re the Brink “Hardcore” club member lol. What exactly makes you guys “hardcore”. Hardcore fanboys?


(AmishWarMachine) #179

It’s definitely not because of a lesbian midget clown fetish, I can tell you that.

/denial


(thesuzukimethod) #180

it would appear that i’ve been deceived.:cool: