Knowing is Half the Battle (Class Recognition)

[wolfnemesis75]

A Locked Class Mode…now that would be far more interesting, but I still think Class Recognized Forced Models would be even more lame if that was the case.

[Jimmy_James]

@Jimmy James: I admit, while unkind, it would not be unpleasant driving you back to the pre-information age but, in your post, number 104, you quoted my post, number 75. I recommended you read the last line of post number 75 in this thread.

“Pre-information”? I was referring to a time when I was on the internet and didn’t have to put up with people like you who don’t seem to know how to use the basic tools of a forum to clarify themselves. (I still have no idea what quote you are referring to btw. Perhaps a link if you can’t be bothered to copy/paste or type it out?)

Anyway, BACK ON TOPIC (again):
I feel that local visual customization is key. Allow us to turn off backpacks, or turn on giant class symbols above peoples heads, or make everyone on a team look the same.

I even like the idea of having a “competitive” game mode where everyone is forced to look the same (a look designed and agreed upon beforehand). All great ideas in my opinion.

-JJ

[Thundermuffin]

I want you to tell me why it would be more hardcore. You know the answer.

No, I actually don’t know the answer as to why it would be more hardcore, because I don’t think it would be at all.

I want the game to be challenging (and I want it to punish you if you suck, not hold your hand like BRINK) and make me make split second decisions as people run into the room, not as I flash my cross hair over the enemy team or make me guess who is who.

Look at how when platinum jumps over the spire in Badlands he automatically goes for the medic; he does that because he knows who is who (it’s easy to see it’s the medic) and the medic is one of the 2 really key classes to TF2 competition. You want to take them down as fast as possible. That relates to BRINK perfectly, as you want to take down the medic + objective class. In TF2 you want to take down the medic and the demoman as fast as possible to let your team push in. Do you really think he would have been able to pull off that kill if it was like BRINK where you can’t tell who is who? That is why BRINK needs to have identifiable classes. You really can’t make it anymore clear than that. It makes you keep your key classes alive, but it also makes you push out to kill their key classes. You know who is which class, so you can always get at least 1 pick in so one team is always able to push or something and make the game somewhat interesting.

[morguen87]

A Locked Class Mode…now that would be far more interesting, but I still think Class Recognized Forced Models would be even more lame if that was the case.

Locked class would be really interesting in the right circumstances. I could see how it could lead to a lot of headaches in public matches with randoms, but for organized teams and people that play with each other a lot it would be pretty cool. The main problem with changes to the multiplayer is that a lot of them would require new playlists and the last thing we want is more filters/things that spread the community out more. I’m hoping that forced models, if implemented, wouldn’t require a new playlist and instead just a client side option. Maybe locked classes as an idea for Brink 2? Or as a clan scrimmage option in Brink once the clan support update comes out. It would add some strategy to choosing a lineup for specific maps… which you could do as a clan. I’m all for adding depth to the game.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;370934]No, I actually don’t know the answer as to why it would be more hardcore, because I don’t think it would be at all.

I want the game to be challenging [/QUOTE]
Because you wouldn’t know how dangerous the enemy is to the success or failure of your objective. You’d have to make an educated guess, but could still be wrong. And also may underestimate their strengths or weakness because you’d not know what class they were. That makes it far more challenging, and thus hardcore. In a real fight you do not know the skill level or expertise of the opponent in a fight outside a ring.

[AmishWarMachine]

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;370933]…I feel that local visual customization is key. Allow us to turn off backpacks, or turn on giant class symbols above peoples heads, or make everyone on a team look the same.

I even like the idea of having a “competitive” game mode where everyone is forced to look the same (a look designed and agreed upon beforehand). All great ideas in my opinion.

-JJ[/QUOTE]

I just added a post to the thread that morguen linked, and felt that, since the scope of this thread has changed/expanded to include class-specific models, I felt it pertinent to reference.

[QUOTE=AmishWarMachine;370935]As stated in another thread in the General Discussion forum, I’m totally for a client-side option for forced class models.

You could even allow the client to customize what each class looks like for each faction. (What’s easily recognizable for one, might not be easily recognizable for another. Plus it maintains the personalization aspect of being able to customize).

It’s like win/win/win.[/QUOTE]
If they could do this, it would let those that want the existing system to stay the course (everyone’s a beautiful and unique snowflake). It would allow the competitive players the freedom to know class at a glance (uniforms FTW!), and it would still maintain the core customizational freedom (Operatives in flowerprint!) that Brink was largely marketed on.

[wolfnemesis75]

Locked class would be really interesting in the right circumstances. I could see how it could lead to a lot of headaches in public matches with randoms, but for organized teams and people that play with each other a lot it would be pretty cool. The main problem with changes to the multiplayer is that a lot of them would require new playlists and the last thing we want is more filters/things that spread the community out more. I’m hoping that forced models, if implemented, wouldn’t require a new playlist and instead just a client side option. Maybe locked classes as an idea for Brink 2? Or as a clan scrimmage option in Brink once the clan support update comes out. It would add some strategy to choosing a lineup for specific maps… which you could do as a clan. I’m all for adding depth to the game.

That’s not adding depth. That’s taking away depth if you force models on class. No forced class or symbols would add more depth not the opposite. In real war you’d not know, oh its an engineer running towards my HE plant, I’d better kill him first before his friend next to him.

[Chris2]

[QUOTE=AmishWarMachine;370889]I wasn’t suggesting that we just ‘bend over and take it’, but moreso ‘make lemonade out of lemons’ (Until the wife gets back from the store with my beer, then I’ll use the lemons in a nice Hefe).

I just think a separate thread dedicated to the idea of class-specific models would have been a more productive forum to discuss that end of the class-recognition subject, instead of de-railing a thread which had the sole intended purpose of working with the system as it is.

/shrug[/QUOTE]

Ah right sorry, misread you there.

I did already have a thread about that, even linked to it

Anyway keep it up, you’re good to have discussions with, tis refreshing.

That’s not adding depth. That’s taking away depth if you force models on class. No forced class or symbols would add more depth not the opposite. In real war you’d not know, oh its an engineer running towards my HE plant, I’d better kill him first before his friend next to him.

And having class icons above players heads is adding what then?

[morguen87]

[QUOTE=AmishWarMachine;370942]
If they could do this, it would let those that want the existing system to stay the course (everyone’s a beautiful and unique snowflake). It would allow the competitive players the freedom to know class at a glance (uniforms FTW!), and it would still maintain the core customizational freedom (Operatives in flowerprint!) that Brink was largely marketed on.[/QUOTE]

Haha, I’ll just quote this, it’s much better than how I was trying to explain it.

[morguen87]

That’s not adding depth. That’s taking away depth if you force models on class. No forced class or symbols would add more depth not the opposite. In real war you’d not know, oh its an engineer running towards my HE plant, I’d better kill him first before his friend next to him.

Realism ≠ depth. Being able to accurately react faster in combat to benefit the team does (add depth)

[Thundermuffin]

So you want the game to be based around luck and guessing? That’s really the main theme of all of your posts in this thread. I don’t think winning or losing should be based around luck or guessing, but instead based around how good I am and how good my team is. And by good, I don’t mean only base it around how well I aim. I want the game to reward me for being able to predict, outaim, outsmart, etc., my opponent, instead of what it is right now where I get rewarded for spray’n’praying at my opponents chest and not even thinking about what I’m trying to accomplish. There are way too many instances in BRINK where the game “forgives” people for screwing up, when it really shouldn’t.

Have you ever played ET:QW/TF2/W:ET/RtCW/TFC? And if so, did knowing what class the enemy was make it any less challenging or did it add a layer of depth to the game? If not it’s really hard for you to formulate an opinion on this issue as you have no idea what it’s truly like. Playing ET:QW on the console isn’t enough of an experience if you only got to play it against bots as it truly doesn’t matter what order you kill people as they aren’t smart enough to do the same back to you.

[Oschino1907]

To each their own, I guess. The most fun feature of the game to me is the actual game, the combat. Not the dress up. If we had an option it’s a win/win right?

If they were able to make a seperate mode/option (especially for custom games) it could work. They could just pair up all the “pre made” outfits (mostly those with the same name) and just add or take a few things to make them look more class specific. So you get like 2-3 looks (maybe allow for diff archtypes and scars/tatoos/skin tone/colors, etc…) per class to get a bit of variety but still has a class based look. Honestly I wouldnt bother with it but it could solve the problems of those who cant cope with it the way it is now.

Maybe even turn Comp mode into that, lol I dont play it so I wouldnt care at all but it could work if its not a big problem to add.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;370949]So you want the game to be based around luck and guessing? That’s really the main theme of all of your posts in this thread. I don’t think winning or losing should be based around luck or guessing, but instead based around how good I am and how good my team is. And by good, I don’t mean only base it around how well I aim. I want the game to reward me for being able to predict, outaim, outsmart, etc., my opponent, instead of what it is right now where I get rewarded for spray’n’praying at my opponents chest and not even thinking about what I’m trying to accomplish. There are way too many instances in BRINK where the game “forgives” people for screwing up, when it really shouldn’t.

Have you ever played ET:QW/TF2/W:ET/RtCW/TFC? And if so, did knowing what class the enemy was make it any less challenging or did it add a layer of depth to the game? If not it’s really hard for you to formulate an opinion on this issue as you have no idea what it’s truly like. Playing ET:QW on the console isn’t enough of an experience if you only got to play it against bots as it truly doesn’t matter what order you kill people as they aren’t smart enough to do the same back to you.[/QUOTE]

Maybe Operative should be given Tactical Class Decoder ability (Rank 5) so that the enemy can not tell what class anyone on his team is for 30 seconds. Now THATS hardcore, brother. You want a challenge, there ya go!

[AmishWarMachine]

Maybe Operative should be given Tactical Class Decoder so that the enemy can not tell what class anyone is for 30 seconds. Now THATS hardcore, brother. You want a challenge, there ya go!

I hear you can get one of those with 10 proofs of purchase for Ark-O’s™ cereal.

[Thundermuffin]

Maybe Operative should be given Tactical Class Decoder ability (Rank 5) so that the enemy can not tell what class anyone on his team is for 30 seconds. Now THATS hardcore, brother. You want a challenge, there ya go!

Not only did you not answer my questions, you didn’t even respond to any of the post. Oh well, I knew what the answers would be anyways.

[wolfnemesis75]

I hear you can get one of those with 10 proofs of purchase for Ark-O’s™ cereal.

Ha ha ha! Its a new App the Operative can download to their PDA from the Apple Ark Store! (We all know Apple built the Ark ) Perhaps the Brother Chen is a relative of Bill Gates.

We must stop them Brothers!

[wolfnemesis75]

Not only did you not answer my questions, you didn’t even respond to any of the post. Oh well, I knew what the answers would be anyways.

I did respond to you a few posts above this one! Please go look. It starts with the word Because!

Here is the answer to your question: Why would it be more hardcore?

Because you wouldn’t know how dangerous the enemy is to the success or failure of your objective. You’d have to make an educated guess, but could still be wrong. And also may underestimate their strengths or weakness because you’d not know what class they were. That makes it far more challenging, and thus hardcore. In a real fight you do not know the skill level or expertise of the opponent in a fight outside a ring.

[thesuzukimethod]

before i read more about it (or saw what it actually was), i just assumed based on no information other than my own imagination) that the tactical scanner would give a persistent icon for enemies re: class, and then give the whole health bar + buffs when you moused/controllered(?) over their char model.

i realize that cluttered HUD/display is one of the frequent criticisms (or at least the inability to mod it to one’s liking), but this would actually make this a rank 5 (instead of a rank .5) ability. Plus it would be optional - dont like the clutter? dont have to take it. but if you want the immediate recognition you can have it (and it retains the customization).

I’m not saying it’s the best case - but it does seem like less of a significant tweak to the settings compared to forcing class models, client side settings, filters for servers, etc etc…i mean, they’re already doing the icon heads up for teammates…the trick would be making it only work when opponents were in view…for obvious reasons (although there is already a mechanism for this…when an opponent in your crosshair is obscured by something, you lose sight of their health bar)

[Thundermuffin]

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;370961]I did respond to you a few posts above this one! Please go look. It starts with the word Because!

Here is the answer to your question: Why would it be more hardcore?[/QUOTE]

And I replied to that with a real post, yet all I got was a post for an ability. This shouldn’t be a stupid ability you have to buy, but one the player actually has to work on and learn.

So you want the game to be based around luck and guessing? That’s really the main theme of all of your posts in this thread. I don’t think winning or losing should be based around luck or guessing, but instead based around how good I am and how good my team is. And by good, I don’t mean only base it around how well I aim. I want the game to reward me for being able to predict, outaim, outsmart, etc., my opponent, instead of what it is right now where I get rewarded for spray’n’praying at my opponents chest and not even thinking about what I’m trying to accomplish. There are way too many instances in BRINK where the game “forgives” people for screwing up, when it really shouldn’t.

Have you ever played ET:QW/TF2/W:ET/RtCW/TFC? And if so, did knowing what class the enemy was make it any less challenging or did it add a layer of depth to the game? If not it’s really hard for you to formulate an opinion on this issue as you have no idea what it’s truly like. Playing ET:QW on the console isn’t enough of an experience if you only got to play it against bots as it truly doesn’t matter what order you kill people as they aren’t smart enough to do the same back to you.

[Oschino1907]

I hear you can get one of those with 10 proofs of purchase for Ark-O’s™ cereal.

They do produce a lot of knock offs, they are in international waters, there are worse crimes though… hahahahaha atleast thats the kist of what Ishmael says.