Katana shouldn't "favor the shooter"

(RectalTerror) #1

Let’s sum up the problem with the katana: how do you face the typical noob phantom approaching you thinking he’s invisible?
You move back, and you shoot at him. That should be how to handle it, and it’s tough because he’s fast. But you should be handling him THE WAY YOU SEE HIM. It’s not our fault if he lags, we should not be instakilled by the katana from meters away simply because the other guy lags.

Besides, the katana shouldn’t be there. Let’s remember how online games used to be. Connections were poor, lag was ok in FPS games, but VS fighting games (Street Fighter) could simply not exist online. Then connections improved, and games like SF finally could exist, but for the simple reason that it’s possible to find 2 players in the same area & play with minimum lag.
In a 10+ people FPS, you just can’t expect everyone to have a low latency, and besides the game accepts crazy high 500ms+ latencies (why??).
WHICH IS WHY FPSes normally don’t feature such close-range large hitbox weapons. Traditionally, melee weapons were used for backstabbing. Lag doesn’t matter there, the enemy didn’t see you coming anyway, and it does make sense to instakill wen stabbing the back.
A katana instakilling you from front was really a bad idea, and it shouldn’t favor the shooter, especially when those lag on purpose, or pick it on purpose because they lag.

There used to be a merc I hated facing, it was Fletcher with his OP bombs, I’m glad it got nerved. But at least those were good players. I hate how even a lvl2 laggy phantom can slay people while he can’t play. I just don’t know what to do against them… I can try to dodge but it doesn’t matter, I’ll be instakilled because on their screen they hit me.

DB is really a very fast game, and the results of “favor the shooter”+lag show very often, when you get hit way past walls. But that’s normal, it’s not like it could be done better, and it’s probably the best for everyone. But that speed+an instakilling melee weapon just doesn’t work. Melee should be for a specific time, when you encounter someone & you have to fight at close range. It shouldn’t be effective by running like a moron into a gun, but it is, at least for some players & we can’t control that. We can’t control the distance to avoid it if it varies with players.

(bushyg) #2

nerv fantom

But seriously, turn away and sprint then long jump and shoot him in the face. Most Phantoms will just hold W trying to stab you, it’s not the hardest target to hit. Idiotic spacebar spamming Kira’s with katanas are far worse. If you think Phantom is hard to kill now, you would have uninstalled (along with many others) back when he was released.

(RectalTerror) #3

I had no prob when Phantom was released, I think back then I was slayed from behind, how it’s supposed to be, I was ok with that.

(Press E) #4

As someone who plays squishy mercs as mains that can all be one-shotted by the katana, I’ve never had an issue with it.
Every time I’ve been killed by them, it was either my fault, or the phantom deserved the kill. In over 1000 hours, I’ve barely ever been killed by any laggy phantoms. Definitely not enough to warrant a complete overhaul of DB’s networking

Either the problem is your own internet, you’re over exaggerating a lot, or you just don’t know how to counter a phantom. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Eox) #5

When you see a melee Phantom too late, backpedaling and shooting isn’t enough. You have to run away and either lure him to his doom or put enough distance between him and you to screw him up. Keep this in mind : most melee Phantom players have as much gamesense as an oyster. You have to take advantage of this.

(znuund) #6

I guess you should elaborate more on your problem. It is not quite clear what you want to say. Like it is explained in your post I assume that you just didn’t figure out how to deal with a charging phantom or the way you think is good, actually isn’t.
I played also some phantom and I found it pretty hard to be efficient.

Also, it feels arbitrary to bring latency into play here and you are using it in a very terrible and random way.

It just feels like you have no idea what you are talking about :frowning:

A bit more structure would help you post.

(TheStrangerous) #7

Scrubs are so fascinate by katanas, they forget being in the wrong game.
There already are some upcoming First Person Hack and Slash games, and DB ain’t one of them.

Remember what happened to Assassin in LawnBrokers? Or how useful Demoknight is in TF2 comp?

Also, Phantom deserves a better sword, and hold the blade with his hands!

when-i-first-met-a-guy-who-was-half-swording_o_3992223.jpg640x1190
/joke

(Your worst knifemare.) #8

@Eox said:
When you see a melee Phantom too late, backpedaling and shooting isn’t enough. You have to run away and either lure him to his doom or put enough distance between him and you to @$!# him up. Keep this in mind : most melee Phantom players have as much gamesense as an oyster. You have to take advantage of this.

I just stab him back. Not the best idea but it works for me because they mostly miss.

(GatoCommodore) #9

a good phantom will shoot you in the head and you will be dead long before you knew what happened.

if a phantom trying to stab you either its a trolly phantom or its a bad phantom.

(BazBling) #10

@STARRYSOCK said:

Either the problem is your own internet, :stuck_out_tongue:

Probably this ^^

(B_Montiel) #11

@376E1AE459B1 said:
Besides, the katana shouldn’t be there. Let’s remember how online games used to be. Connections were poor, lag was ok in FPS games, but VS fighting games (Street Fighter) could simply not exist online. Then connections improved, and games like SF finally could exist, but for the simple reason that it’s possible to find 2 players in the same area & play with minimum lag.
In a 10+ people FPS, you just can’t expect everyone to have a low latency, and besides the game accepts crazy high 500ms+ latencies (why??).
WHICH IS WHY FPSes normally don’t feature such close-range large hitbox weapons. Traditionally, melee weapons were used for backstabbing. Lag doesn’t matter there, the enemy didn’t see you coming anyway, and it does make sense to instakill wen stabbing the back.

Your internet obviously never existed prior to the arrival of call of duty.

Either way, I consider Katana being a way better weapon using Kira than Phantom, with good amounts of long jumping instead of cloak. Almost abusive in this case, but you can do pretty much the same thing with the cricket bat with Aura or Proxy. And a face stabbing Phantom is basically a bad Phantom.

Nonetheless, going melee is, no matter the merc you’re using, a bold move. Facing somebody being able to melee you is pretty much your fault.

(ImSploosh) #12

@B_Montiel said:

@376E1AE459B1 said:
Besides, the katana shouldn’t be there. Let’s remember how online games used to be. Connections were poor, lag was ok in FPS games, but VS fighting games (Street Fighter) could simply not exist online. Then connections improved, and games like SF finally could exist, but for the simple reason that it’s possible to find 2 players in the same area & play with minimum lag.
In a 10+ people FPS, you just can’t expect everyone to have a low latency, and besides the game accepts crazy high 500ms+ latencies (why??).
WHICH IS WHY FPSes normally don’t feature such close-range large hitbox weapons. Traditionally, melee weapons were used for backstabbing. Lag doesn’t matter there, the enemy didn’t see you coming anyway, and it does make sense to instakill wen stabbing the back.

Your internet obviously never existed prior to the arrival of call of duty.

Either way, I consider Katana being a way better weapon using Kira than Phantom, with good amounts of long jumping instead of cloak. Almost abusive in this case, but you can do pretty much the same thing with the cricket bat with Aura or Proxy. And a face stabbing Phantom is basically a bad Phantom.

Nonetheless, going melee is, no matter the merc you’re using, a bold move. Facing somebody being able to melee you is pretty much your fault.

Cricket Bat Sparks is probably the best. I’m not talking any loadout either, but the first gen loadout with Chopper does some serious damage. Sparks is so fast that they never even see you coming!

(blufflord) #13

@376E1AE459B1 said:
I had no prob when Phantom was released, I think back then I was slayed from behind, how it’s supposed to be, I was ok with that.

You were fine with phantom upon release, but now he’s too strong?
Bait/10

(bgyoshi) #14

The real tragedy of Phantom is that when he kills someone he says “Knife to meet you!” like a fucking cock but when you stab him to death nobody says “Knife to meet you too!”

(GatoCommodore) #15

@bgyoshi said:
The real tragedy of Phantom is that when he kills someone he says “Knife to meet you!” like a @$!# @$!# but when you stab him to death nobody says “Knife to meet you too!”

i think kira and skyhammer say it

(DOORTOLIGHT) #16

I have no problem with Phantom, most of the times I face It 1v1 with melee only and man, that feels when you can beat him with the bat or stiletto :’) spamming tbag

(bgyoshi) #17

@GatoCommodore said:

i think kira and skyhammer say it

I require the proofs

(GatoCommodore) #18

@bgyoshi said:

@GatoCommodore said:

i think kira and skyhammer say it

I require the proofs


Upon killing an enemy player with a knife:

Knives to meet you, to meet you, kniiveees!


Upon killing an enemy player with a knife:

Knife to meet you, to meet you knife!

(RectalTerror) #19

Looks like no one here understands “favors the shooter”, I guess.

When you shoot someone, it doesn’t matter if you were on the guy’s screen yet, it doesn’t matter if he saw you shoot him, you’re the shooter, you’re favored, if on your monitor you saw you shot him, you shot him. That is why, DB being a very fast FPS, you’re often killed past walls. And that is FINE, that’s probably the best way to do it, FOR GUNS.

BUT NOT FOR FUCKIN SWORDS. I am FINE with a low-latency (like, 30ms, even if that’s already big) Phantom. I am NOT FINE WITH A PHANTOM WITH a 300MS LATENCY.

On your screen his katana didn’t hit you, and you kept your distances well enough, but that doesn’t matter, because on his screen he hit you and you are dead. He’s fast, and that’s not compatible with high latency.
His katana should kill me when I see it touching me, not when I see the tip of the katana a meter away. Yes, that would suck for the high-ping Phantom, but hey, it’s his choice to play on another continent, and we all know he does it for a reason.
And if that’s already how it works, if the katana is already favoring the target, then it’s broken.

And please don’t tell me a bs “lrn skillz” or “just don’t play with high-ping players”.

Netcode handling high-pings isn’t easy to do, and it has to be adapted per event (guns, grenades, etc), & thus for melee as well, especially when it’s not used for backstabbing anymore but becomes a main weapon. I’m just saying it sucks right now.

(RectalTerror) #20

You were fine with phantom upon release, but now he’s too strong?
Bait/10

Do you think people find out exploits right when something is released?
Some are probably lagswitching assholes, some probably once happened to play on another continent’s server (when there’s no other choice) and realized that something specific worked well under high-lag circumstances, and kept doing it.
If a game allows players with high-ping, I think nothing should be done to favor them. Sucks for those who don’t have the choice, but it shouldn’t be possible to use it as a cheat. Playing at 300ms should suck, as it generally does. It’s already one thing that someone can dance in front of you and warp like crazy, making him way harder to shoot, because he well knows what his lag allows him to do.