K121 discussion.

(Amerika) #41

You can hit with any gun while spraying. Some of them are pretty good to spray for longer than others (the M4 is one of these). The K121 is not. You will be incredibly more effective if you shoot it the way I mentioned.

Yes, the videos show how not to shoot the gun which is readily evident in the results that you saw. And yes, it’s a comparison as to how awful it is to shoot the k121 like that compared to something like the M4. But in reality you never shoot the K121 like that if you want consistent good results. Hell, you shouldn’t be shooting the M4 like that either. Your whole argument is based around shooting the K121 incorrectly and how much worse it is when shooting it incorrectly. Which, as you can see, doesn’t work very well.

(watsyurdeal) #42

In other words, the gun doesn’t suck or is shit because you don’t use it properly.

That’s a player problem, not a gun problem. The K 121 is where it needs to be, it’s a fully automatic Dreiss that hits like a train and is harder to use to compensate for that massive power.

If you pay attention to comp you’ll see players use it to DEVASTATING results.

[quote=“RecurveZ;56479”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;56438”]It’s already fine compared to the M4, it has more spread so it discourages spraying, but hits way harder so if you have good aim with it you can take out people with ease.

Fire in small 1-2 shots bursts and the K 121 is a beast to be reckoned with.
[/quote]
firing 1-2 shots will not take you anywhere trust me i use it everytime since i use basically only fragger.
and plus it’s some random spread it isnt something you can control somehow it’s totally useless spread of bullets.
[/quote]

Do me a favor, use the default crosshair, with the 4 lines and a dot.

Fire the gun once, watch how the crosshair expands when you fire one shot, then the moment you stop firing it contracts. If you tap with some relatively good control, not spamming it but tapping it like an even tempo, you’ll see it very well does fire pretty accurately.

Just because it is harder to use than then M4 by comparison means jack squat, because again that is a player issue and not a gun issue.

(RecurveZ) #43

whatever i wonder why everyone chooses the m4 then.
as they said they dont want people to focus on one gun properly but to make all guns equally balanced. said today in the stream.

(watsyurdeal) #44

A ton of people have said they use the M4 over the K 121 because of the augments.

With the K 121 you have the following sets that are possible

  1. K51
    faster cooldown for machine guns, faster reload, less flinch

  2. K63
    more momentum for jumps, more melee damage, less flinch

3. K92
shorter delay for health regen, faster cooldown for machine guns, less time being detected

These are for the M4

1. M62
faster cooldown for machine guns, less damage taken from enemy explosives, bigger explosive aoe

  1. M91
    bigger explosive aoe, more melee damage, more momentum for jumps

  2. M93
    quieter footsteps, less flinch, bigger explosive aoe

The ones in bold are imo the best, and between the two M62 is better.

Plain and simple, it’s the best loadout card for Fragger because all of it contributes to his abilities, explosive resistance makes him more tanky, bigger aoe makes the nades more effective, and faster cooldown for machine guns, on top of his health make him great for using the mounted guns you find on the map.

So yea…has nothing to do with which gun is better.

(Amerika) #45

[quote=“RecurveZ;56604”]whatever i wonder why everyone chooses the m4 then.
as they said they dont want people to focus on one gun properly but to make all guns equally balanced. said today in the stream.[/quote]

It’s almost as if you didn’t read my posts that detailed why a lot of people choose the M4 over the K121. @Watsyurdeal covered it though.

Some do actually choose the M4 over the K121 or the K121 over the M4 due to what they like. The fact that we can have this discussion where some people swear one is better than the other means that the devs have done a pretty OK job with balance. I would like a K121 loadout with the 20% reduced explosive damage augment though.

(watsyurdeal) #46

[quote=“Amerika;56620”][quote=“RecurveZ;56604”]whatever i wonder why everyone chooses the m4 then.
as they said they dont want people to focus on one gun properly but to make all guns equally balanced. said today in the stream.[/quote]

It’s almost as if you didn’t read my posts that detailed why a lot of people choose the M4 over the K121. @Watsyurdeal covered it though.

Some do actually choose the M4 over the K121 or the K121 over the M4 due to what they like. The fact that we can have this discussion where some people swear one is better than the other means that the devs have done a pretty OK job with balance. I would like a K121 loadout with the 20% reduced explosive damage augment though.[/quote]

If he wants argue a buff, would you say that’s fair?

Not even compared to the M4, but from using it, I can tell they want spraying to be a no no, but it feels like tapping it…well, I feel like the Blishok is better than it is honestly.

(Amerika) #47

Hey, as I said, I’ll take a free buff with the k121.

(RecurveZ) #48

[quote=“Amerika;56620”][quote=“RecurveZ;56604”]whatever i wonder why everyone chooses the m4 then.
as they said they dont want people to focus on one gun properly but to make all guns equally balanced. said today in the stream.[/quote]

It’s almost as if you didn’t read my posts that detailed why a lot of people choose the M4 over the K121. @Watsyurdeal covered it though.

Some do actually choose the M4 over the K121 or the K121 over the M4 due to what they like. The fact that we can have this discussion where some people swear one is better than the other means that the devs have done a pretty OK job with balance. I would like a K121 loadout with the 20% reduced explosive damage augment though.[/quote]

no all the people i ask why they dont use k121 they just say because the m4 is better it’s not about the augments

(Ghosthree3) #49

I thought ADS meant more recoil but more accuracy. That doesn’t sound like something you want to do when the recoil is big to begin with but the bloom isn’t too bad.

(Gi.Am) #50

True ADS means more recoil and zero bloom. My point for ADS is that after a certain point you want to switch to ADS since it will erase the bloom, if you want to spray you gotta spray in ADS after a certain point, since the bloom goes out of control.

Also the K121 has ok stability, and so far as I gathered stability indicates the amount of random recoil ontop of vertical recoil (or a combination of both). So while you have to compensate quite a bit you mainly have to compensate downwards (compared to the M4 or the SMGs which should have more left right movement giving the feel that the gun swims).

(Amerika) #51

I drag my mouse down when using the K121 in ADS. I do that with all the weapons but the K121 you do it a bit more and remain pretty accurate. It’s like controlling AK recoil in CS but a lot easier. If you’re not being shot at or you just want to remove the randomness from getting the last 20-30% HP from somebody you quickly switch to ADS. And if you can ride the recoil down with your mouse it’s extremely effective even while going full auto…but not advisable since your movement is restricted. So like anything else you have to pick and choose when best to use it.

(Ghosthree3) #52

Do you know if simply toggling ADS resets bloom for hip firing or it remains what it was or even increases still while zoomed.

(Gi.Am) #53

Not 100% sure right now, I remember testing that exact question not to long ago tho. If I remember right the bloom stays where it was, as long as you keep on firing. So quick tab of ADS doesn’t reset the bloom. Only thing that does that is not firing (easy to test tho simply switch to the full crosshair and switch midfire to ADS and back). As Amerika says switching to ADS midfight is good if you don’t need full movement speed and start to feel that the spread becomes too much.

(RyePanda) #54

Maybe we can all agree both weapons are viable and it comes down to personal preference. I prefer the M4. There. If you do better with the K-121 go for it, and I think it’s balanced right now.

(REz) #55

For me, as a gold Fragger player, I mix up Iron sights and hip fire depending on range. I don’t feel like the K-121 needs any rework.

(Ghosthree3) #56

(Samniss_Arandeen) #57

Just make the K-121 an Ability already, existing Loadout Cards with it can give him a shotgun.

(Hazard) #58

Badass K-121 for me, I like using weapons that are exclusive to that merc (SR for Redeye)

(Mescman) #59

K-121 got buffed. 55 bullets instead of 50 and 10% less spread increase! Not bad imo.

(Mescman) #60

Any opinions about the current K-121? After mostly using SMG’s I feel like I couldn’t hit a barn with K-121, is it worth learning how to use it? And is the K92 Loadout (Tough, Cool, Enigma - S&W, Stiletto) for fragger any good compared to K51?