Juan is for chumps without skill

(Jerry-Rigs) #21

Hey First Post,
You throw flame bait like someone who doesn’t get enough hugs from their mommie. Do you feel all growed up now that you have demonstrated your ability to attract attention?

If you have something legitimate to say, say it and then back it up. For example: I think Juan is overused by weak players but every time I run into him, I win.
If you want matches, there’s already another forum topic for that.
If you don’t want to play Juan, just quit when you see him (and PM your opponent as to why you quit).
As far as team choice, there is an old saying: If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.
The best way to brag is to win, all else is a weakling seeking to suckle.

This is fun!
(So really, who signed in under a new account just to say that?, I bet it’s Mitsid’s alter-ego.)

(Warchest_Andy) #22

Lol!

I’m with Coup - anyone who uses the Commander is a chump and I have no respect for their game. It’s official.

Anyway, enough feeding the troll. Let’s get back to the generally civilised discussions that make these forums so pleasant to be a part of.

(Crozzton) #23

Juan isnt op at any length he is just very good and a lot of the maps are a plus for Gus/Juan. But saying that using synergy of two toons is being a chump is idiotic tbh. You know what they can do so don’t put the toons where they can be reached. It’s math and can be figured out easily so loosing toons to wrong positioning has nothing to do with my combo but more with the math skills of the one loosing the toon. Before the grenade nerfs Kate/Juan combo was better imo and used madam/Kate more for movability but after nerf the 200 HP is simply just way better. And yes the scooting of Juan fools some, but the skill is explained so…
With that of my chest ill agree that snipers are a bit too good at most maps but nowhere near as bad as melee was pwning 6 months ago. But perhaps some aura for Merci/commander that decreased damage incoming from more than 3 squares away from target. Would prefer it on Merci since she is the weakest medic since she as no second activation skill

(General_Rommel) #24

The hate for Juan is misplaced. It’s not Juan, it’s the botherer

Allow the botherer to be used with Ivan, carlito, or Tree, or any HW-type toon, and we’d see them used just as often as Juan (Ivan would likely be king actually)

I put this in another thread, but here are my thoughts on why this is and a proposed simple fix:

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35811-The-Sniping-Gameplay-Update-Suggestion-for-better-game-balance-and-diversity

The fix is a simple one. The damage should be reduced

With the game using tiles and limited movement, the weapons have 4 major characteristics:

  • range
  • damage
  • SP cost
  • energy cost

SP and energy cost seems about right, the SP cost affects deployment variety, and energy costs is nicely balanced in relation to other weapons and in how many times a LW, MW, or HW can fire

But the thing about range is that it’s harder to get close (and stay close) than it is to fire from a distance. Much harder.

All the other weapons have a trade off in damage vs range. The closer you get, the more damage you do (pistols, SMG, shotguns, HMG), and the ultimate example of this dynamic is of course melee weapons being the most damaging in the game,as they should be (I know rifles have a penalty when closer but it’s not drastic or hard to overcome, only requiring to move a tile or two away to get full potential). Shotguns are the worst weapons in the game in practice (cost too much SP for their worth, and the Hamjack costs too much energy)

But snipers have this relationship reversed, in that they have BOTH damage and range. The botherer, fryer, and even the Otto are too strong (HSR is balanced by the excessive energy cost and SP cost investment necessitating weaker weapon be used with other team mates)

The HSR is balanced by those 2 factors being extreme, but the same formula shouldn’t be applied to all of them (making the sniper class universally bad, an extreme change)

Just tone down the sniper damage. Make it’s defining advantage characteristic over other weapons be RANGE, but range only, not range AND damage.

(Hundopercent) #25

I actually find Madame to be more potent than Juan and good luck with Mitsid he is the only guy on my game list that makes me evaluate every single move I make. Very tough player and precise with his attacks. He definitely does not need Juan to rage.

(g00n) #26

I think the best, easiest nerf would be to simply lower his hit points. Snipers should be 250 hp cap, but hey if you want, make it 275.

Hes an assassin, Id limit his weaponary to melee or close range weapons.

Another thing that would really screw with the Jaunitas of the world, 17 energy! Ha, try to duck and cover now, you hoody boy you!
Is he moving like Pete is? I dont play juan or own him so not sure ratio of energy per square-it sure isnt like gus. If he is like Pete then 16 energy with 300hp will make it interesting

(Cap_Ap) #27

[QUOTE=Jerry-Rigs;443147]Hey First Post,
You throw flame bait like someone who doesn’t get enough hugs from their mommie. Do you feel all growed up now that you have demonstrated your ability to attract attention?

If you have something legitimate to say, say it and then back it up. For example: I think Juan is overused by weak players but every time I run into him, I win.
If you want matches, there’s already another forum topic for that.
If you don’t want to play Juan, just quit when you see him (and PM your opponent as to why you quit).
As far as team choice, there is an old saying: If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.
The best way to brag is to win, all else is a weakling seeking to suckle.

This is fun!
(So really, who signed in under a new account just to say that?, I bet it’s Mitsid’s alter-ego.)[/QUOTE]

“Methinks the lady doth protest too much” - Shakespeare

All I did was state my opinion. If you got insulted, perhaps it is time to consider your chumpitude.

(Jerry-Rigs) #28

[QUOTE=Cap_Ap;443309]“Methinks the lady doth protest too much” - Shakespeare

All I did was state my opinion. If you got insulted, perhaps it is time to consider your chumpitude.[/QUOTE]

Oooo, quoting Shakespeare. You must be cultured!
And all I did was state mine. Insulted? No. Entertained. Yes. I’m laughing at your superior intellect. And at your game. And at your …, well, let’s just say at least the list is long.
As far as being a chump. Yes, I am. I’ve got no pride. Most of the people on this post beat me easily. Have you played any of them?

In the game, I just got a friend request from CapAp (level 29) but there is also a Cap_Ap (level 1). Is one of them you? I assume that it is a prelude to a challenge. OK, at the risk of being set up (I still think this is an elaborate, precise, very carefully crafted, joke by Mitsid (I hear he has a sense of humor)), I will play along. Post or PM me the terms of the match: how many points, what toons and weapons should I use or not use, what map do you want? Do you want to go first or should I? Should I limit my capt abilities to level 29? Should I close my eyes when I move?

(Warchest_Andy) #29

“To see or not to see, that is the question.” :smiley:

Just don’t close your eyes when you pick your squad or you might accidentally join Team Chump. :eek:

(Mitsid) #30

[QUOTE=Jerry-Rigs; OK, at the risk of being set up (I still think this is an elaborate, precise, very carefully crafted, joke by Mitsid (I hear he has a sense of humor)), I will play along. Post or PM me the terms of the match: how many points, what toons and weapons should I use or not use, what map do you want? Do you want to go first or should I? Should I limit my capt abilities to level 29? Should I close my eyes when I move?[/QUOTE]
I like your conspiracy theory :slight_smile: sorry to dissapoint you, but its not me. I just learned what the word “chump” means after reading his post. you say he is level 29? Well thats an excuse for him, when I was 29 lvl I also had some illusions about this game :slight_smile:

(Sandman77) #31

I hate Juan and Gus but they have 300 HP and great abilities. :frowning:

(Tarq) #32

What makes Juan a bit special is that the disadvantage of being a Heavy - the slow speed - is largely mitigated by having a long-range weapon.

[QUOTE=General_Rommel;443249]
Just tone down the sniper damage. Make it’s defining advantage characteristic over other weapons be RANGE, but range only, not range AND damage.[/QUOTE]

That’d be OK with me - I’d like to see a greater variety in the weapons deployed.

But a less-contentious change might be increasing the damage-reduction for being at close range. Maybe leave the Otto unchanged, but the greater the range past 6 the greater the below-optimum-range penalty.

She’s my favorite sniper. (Of course, I don’t actually own Juan. :wink: ) I’ve come to favor giving her the Tesla’s weapon: 2 shots and 2 moves!

(Ciakgb) #33

I agree that sniper rifles do too much damage at close range–a pistol for example does almost no damage at its max range behind cover

(Catnadian) #34

Team Chump, proudly representing!

(Coup_de_grace) #35

Random game and happen to be going against 3 juans and 1 tito, we have a “Champion Chump” here lads…

(Ciakgb) #36

I am in the middle of a chump fest at Centro, we both have only one Juan left and are left to stare at eachother across that little statue in the scoring zone, two squares apart. No one has fired for two turns:)

(Jerry-Rigs) #37

You inspired me. Check out the new groups…

(Coup_de_grace) #38

Profile name <chump> has been taken…

(Ciakgb) #39

We need team chump uniforms, how about baseball caps turned backwards.

(Mitsid) #40

Proud to join the Team. Just bought my second Juan :wink: