Javelin Things

(TepidJesus) #1

  1. I really don’t think that she is broken, I’m constantly hearing that she is, with arguments like “she gets a free kill very 30secs”, I get more kills per 30 secs playing fragger or even Aimee (Who I only play because I have a really nice ranked season two card for). I do however agree that her ammo giving system is busted, It essentially negates any other ammo giving players on the team, I think it should be on a charge system, that when you press the ability button gives 1 ammopack worth of ammo too everyone in the ammo giving zone.

  2. Could her unguided rocket mode have a 0 sec charge time before firing, I would like this as I really don’t think that it is worth using unguided over guided ATM since the speed increase doesn’t seem to matter. For this change to work I think she should have a significantly large slow on her when she has the rocket launcher out and maybe also a long animation for getting the launcher out to help prevent panic rocketing indoors.

These are just my thoughts, let me know what you guys think.

(Press E) #2

Idk. I mean, we don’t want to nerf her into the ground, but I really do think the rocket itself needs a nerf. Those people are right, it is a free kill (or more) every thirty seconds. And not only that, but it’s an instagib too.

I really think her damage should be reduced to that of fragger’s grenade, and potentially other aspects of her launcher buffed to compensate.
Personally, I find javelin a lot easier to get kills with than any other merc though. Sure, you might have more kills/min with other mercs, but that doesn’t mean her killing potential is insane atm. Sure with fragger, you might get more kills, but at least players have a chance to counter him. With javelin it’s just an instagib from anywhere in the map.

And yeah, a healing pulse ammo dispenser is what I’d rather see on her. Imagine even having to charge it to give the right amount of ammo, where a quickcharge would only give a clip or something. I’d like to see her ammo generator ability removed if this happened too though.

(woodchip) #3

The most toxic thing Javelin can do is camp with a height advantage. Like on top of the med bay in underground. If you always initiate your rocket from above precharged it’s going to get a kill. Often two.

You CAN play Javelin like a fire support, lobbing hail marry guided missiles across the map. But that’s not the most effective way to play her. Played ‘properly’ she averages close to a kill a missile.

Suggestion 2 is obviously silly. But I do agree that the pros/cons of guided vs dumb don’t feel very good right now. Dumb fire is a niche mode for extra cheesing an already near certain kill. Not sure why it’s even in the game. Adding the toggle feature and all the junk that comes iwth it just so her already near certain kills are certainer was a bad choice.

(ImSploosh) #4

She does need some tweaking, but she really isn’t OP. She’s powerful, don’t get me wrong, but other mercs have a greater killing potential. She should instagib on direct hits/when enemy health is low. Other than that, the instagibbing is a bit much. When she was first introduced, I imagined the ammo dispenser being similar to Phoenix’s healing pulse.

Personally, I don’t get killed by Javelins very often. If they miss a shot, they’re screwed. Avoidance of the rocket is the best technique at the moment. Better yet, aim for the hands when she’s about to shoot it and make her blow herself up. #Bringpineapplejugglerback needs to be a thing as well. Unfortunately, it doesn’t give you any points for using it effectively.

She needs a little tweaking and the suggestions here are pretty good. She definitely DOES NOT need to be nerfed to nothing. I’d hate for them to destroy her like they did with Stoker (accidental or silent nerf or bug, and then when they buffed him, it didn’t help- still not as effective as he once was/should be). Also, favorite part about the rocket is it’s a counter for those shields on turrets.

(CodeAlpha) #5

Heres my input after a week of playing and watching her. I feel she is quite cheesy and a pretty big crutch for people who i would normally destroy in 1v1 fight relying on aim and guns. An example last night a dude who is known to me and my friends as being pretty damn bad is fighting me with his sharc as he gets to about 20% health he decides no i’m going to loose this fight whips out his rocket gets insta kill and gib, no chance for me to be revived. I feel it has lowered the skill level in db and turned it into a rocket spam fest putting casuals on the top without really needing to study and learn about the game. Pros who use it are absolutely destroying everyone with her. So much for a competitive game its a casuals game with rocket spam now. shes gonna be the first merc banned at every pug/scrim/cup match. imo.

I believe she needs a nerf maybe not all of these things stated but adjusting some may help after all this is just my opinion. no need to hate.

  1. Lower levels who would have been on the bottom half of scoreboard because they cant aim a gun now topping (really easy to notice in Aus with such a small player base).

  2. In comparison to other support mercs she ruins them in the ammo giving department. every time i play her i get gold ammo badge from just spawning and walking around. That’s to easy. As skybro, arty and kira its actually takes tactical placement to get that badge (and often you still dont get it).

  3. She can deploy her rocket no matter what the situation. There is no flinch whens shes getting shot, Kira and arty take 1.5-2 seconds to deploy their abilities though if they get shot they flinch and the time gets reset. I would compare their abilities to javs rocket as they can score the same amount of kills roughly. There is no way to interrupt her rocket (shooting it is pretty hard) .There is also no slow down like thunder or fragger, she can run jump and fire any time she wants without penalty. once the rocket is fired you have the smallest window to run and then often it hits the wall behind you anyway.

  4. Insta gibing 4 people at once is bullcrap

  5. Turtle is supposed to counter the rocket but ive been behind my shield and been blown up along with my shield many times now. it really doesn’t work that well against it

  6. Area damage is huge. I dont see how there can be such a huge area damage as well as such high amount of damage. make it one or the other. high damage=smaller area, large area=less damage

  7. On a positive i think her health and speed are great and i like her voice lines.

  8. I feel cheesy and fake when i kill someone i know is way better then me because i used a rocket to insta gib them instead of shooting them in the head.

  9. The damage she does to ev is pathetic and so is the xp they gain from shooting it and that’s why people would rather use her rockets on mercs rather the objectives. Only a few times have i seen people use her rockets on ev, most just save it for combat.

  10. Ive found it almost impossible to beat a team that has 4 or more javs and she is always on the top of the scoreboard (but i’m sure your data analysis will tell you that SD) even aura’s cant compare with her, possibly because there is no one to revive any more because their all in bits and pieces around the floor.

Some ways i think would be fair to make her more in line with other mercs are:

  1. Give her flinch so she cant fire her rocket while being shot

  2. Make the guided rocket the only option, this will encourage skill shots and wont enable people to just peak around a corner and fire then pop back inside ( they will have to keep their mouse pointed so that it hits where they want it to

  3. Make her ammo like pheonix’s health giving ability, button activated with a cool down and please show us the range of how far it works like pheonix’s Q.

  4. Tone down the insta gibs

  5. Increase xp gained from using it on ev and objs as well as increasing damage it does to ev (to make it more worth while)

I don’t believe all of these things should be done because that would destroy her but maybe some of them

Just my ideas.

(Boory Marks) #6

Javelin’s pretty fun and her rocket launcher can seem too powerful at times. However, I do not think she is overpowered.

Javelin’s Rocket launcher feels kind of like a frag grenade, but with a constant fuse time and does not arc unless in guided. The rocket does more damage, and insta-gibs more frequently, I find. The hitbox is also pretty large.

It might be the hitbox of the rocket+ insta-gibs that makes her more frustrating to fight than some other mercs.

How can they rework this? Maybe they can increase the sound the launcher makes when the rocket is yet to fire.

Also, her ammo resupply mechanic is far superior to ammo packs when giving to ammo to teammates, definitely. I think it’ll be a good step in the right direction to decrease the speed of which ammo is given to players.

(Sorotia) #7

Funny for a free kill every 30 seconds somehow I’ve miraculously avoided deaths from it and people have miraculously avoided deaths from mine.

Her ammo distribution is rather OP…I’ve never gotten so many gold ammo medals so easily and quickly with her.

(WatchAsILead) #8

Whenever I see a Jav thats not instantly shooting me you know they are charging up a rocket and you need to get outta there. I find it incredibly funny when she shoots her rocket, misses and then I go in for the kill.

Or when playing Rhino the minigun always shoots the rocket back in her face, priceless.

(Dysfnal) #9

a 50% damage need accompanied by a 200% damage multiplier to objectives would work wonders for her. This maintains her use to deal with objectives while reducing her insane combat potential

(FishRolls) #10

@TepidJesus said:

  1. I really don’t think that she is broken, I’m constantly hearing that she is, with arguments like “she gets a free kill very 30secs”, I get more kills per 30 secs playing fragger or even Aimee (Who I only play because I have a really nice ranked season two card for). I do however agree that her ammo giving system is busted, It essentially negates any other ammo giving players on the team, I think it should be on a charge system, that when you press the ability button gives 1 ammopack worth of ammo too everyone in the ammo giving zone.

  2. Could her unguided rocket mode have a 0 sec charge time before firing, I would like this as I really don’t think that it is worth using unguided over guided ATM since the speed increase doesn’t seem to matter. For this change to work I think she should have a significantly large slow on her when she has the rocket launcher out and maybe also a long animation for getting the launcher out to help prevent panic rocketing indoors.

These are just my thoughts, let me know what you guys think.
I greatly disagree with your suggestion for the charge time to be reduced in fact I think it should be longer. Javalin can already whip it out and blast her enemies away at a moment’s notice with no planning, and it only makes suicide rpg’ing easier. At least Fragger has to worry about timing and positioning with his frags.

(znuund) #11

I also think she is not OP in general.
Ammo skill:
The ammo supplying is too good and is unfair to other ammo guys in the team. I like the suggestion to make it an ability with cooldown, so you have to press a button to supply everyone in a distance with one ammo pack. you can also make it chargeable like phoenix’ heal. longer charge - more ammo.

rocket launcher:
it should slow her more while charging and should give an audible cue during the charge.

instagibing:
i have not been instagibbed a lot by javelin. except she hit me or my close surroundings. I think that is ok. Maybe the damage dropoff of the explosion needs a bit of tweaking, but I don’t think it is a huge problem.

overall:
I compare her a lot with the panzerfaust soldier of ET. his pf was amazing. it could kill and instagib many players and had somewhat a similar cooldown. the downsides were slow movement speed with pf, long cooldown and only pistol when pf was not accessible. maybe make her less a threat when she doesn’t have her rocket launcher ready and nerf her shar-c.

(GatoCommodore) #12

@znuund said:
I also think she is not OP in general.
Ammo skill:
The ammo supplying is too good and is unfair to other ammo guys in the team. I like the suggestion to make it an ability with cooldown, so you have to press a button to supply everyone in a distance with one ammo pack. you can also make it chargeable like phoenix’ heal. longer charge - more ammo.

rocket launcher:
it should slow her more while charging and should give an audible cue during the charge.

instagibing:
i have not been instagibbed a lot by javelin. except she hit me or my close surroundings. I think that is ok. Maybe the damage dropoff of the explosion needs a bit of tweaking, but I don’t think it is a huge problem.

overall:
I compare her a lot with the panzerfaust soldier of ET. his pf was amazing. it could kill and instagib many players and had somewhat a similar cooldown. the downsides were slow movement speed with pf, long cooldown and only pistol when pf was not accessible. maybe make her less a threat when she doesn’t have her rocket launcher ready and nerf her shar-c.

Shar-C is poop version of K121
the only upside of using SHAR-C is it has less spread than K-121
M4 and timik is better in most cases.

(znuund) #13

@GatoCommodore said:
the only upside of using SHAR-C is it has less spread than K-121

well that’s it for me, I like to have almost no recoil so you can get them dingdingding

(Aazhyd) #14

Tried Javelin on Vault with a bunch of new players, went 17-5 with at least 3 multikills.

Tried it again with experienced players and I got a lot less kills and no multi’s at all. You have to know how to play around her, apparently. Like with all mercs.

I like Javelin quite a lot, but some maps seem better for her than others. Vault is great, Chapel not so much. Javelin is quite a relieve after the failure that was Turtle (imho).

(ImSploosh) #15

@Sorotia said:
Funny for a free kill every 30 seconds somehow I’ve miraculously avoided deaths from it and people have miraculously avoided deaths from mine.

Her ammo distribution is rather OP…I’ve never gotten so many gold ammo medals so easily and quickly with her.

This, definitely.

I played 5 or 6 full Stopwatch matches in a row yesterday and there were at least 2 Javelins on each side, each game (yes, I was one of them). I was killed by the rocket a total of 3 times I believe, generally when I wasn’t looking or paying attention. It’s fairly easy to avoid unless you’re standing still out in the open.

@CodeAlpha has the best suggestion I’ve seen so far, #3 Add flinch. This is all she really needs to be honest, anything more might be overnerfing her rocket. I do disagree with her area of damage being huge though, it’s actually quite small and not as spread out as a frag grenade or even Nader’s nades. Most of the time it requires a decent amount of precision to actually get the kill if you’re not point blank.

The ammo dispenser does need a rework though.

(GatoCommodore) #16

@ImSploosh said:

@Sorotia said:
Funny for a free kill every 30 seconds somehow I’ve miraculously avoided deaths from it and people have miraculously avoided deaths from mine.

Her ammo distribution is rather OP…I’ve never gotten so many gold ammo medals so easily and quickly with her.

This, definitely.

I played 5 or 6 full Stopwatch matches in a row yesterday and there were at least 2 Javelins on each side, each game (yes, I was one of them). I was killed by the rocket a total of 3 times I believe, generally when I wasn’t looking or paying attention. It’s fairly easy to avoid unless you’re standing still out in the open.

@CodeAlpha has the best suggestion I’ve seen so far, #3 Add flinch. This is all she really needs to be honest, anything more might be overnerfing her rocket. I do disagree with her area of damage being huge though, it’s actually quite small and not as spread out as a frag grenade or even Nader’s nades. Most of the time it requires a decent amount of precision to actually get the kill if you’re not point blank.

The ammo dispenser does need a rework though.

dispenser need rework
more OP than ammo station

(ImSploosh) #17

@GatoCommodore said:

@ImSploosh said:

@Sorotia said:
Funny for a free kill every 30 seconds somehow I’ve miraculously avoided deaths from it and people have miraculously avoided deaths from mine.

Her ammo distribution is rather OP…I’ve never gotten so many gold ammo medals so easily and quickly with her.

This, definitely.

I played 5 or 6 full Stopwatch matches in a row yesterday and there were at least 2 Javelins on each side, each game (yes, I was one of them). I was killed by the rocket a total of 3 times I believe, generally when I wasn’t looking or paying attention. It’s fairly easy to avoid unless you’re standing still out in the open.

@CodeAlpha has the best suggestion I’ve seen so far, #3 Add flinch. This is all she really needs to be honest, anything more might be overnerfing her rocket. I do disagree with her area of damage being huge though, it’s actually quite small and not as spread out as a frag grenade or even Nader’s nades. Most of the time it requires a decent amount of precision to actually get the kill if you’re not point blank.

The ammo dispenser does need a rework though.

dispenser need rework
more OP than ammo station

I think if it was just turned into Phoenix’s pulse, but with ammo, it would be a lot better. Sometimes the damn thing seems to have infinite range lol

(FishRolls) #18

Give it a longer charge so she can’t pull it out anywhere in any fight. She should hqve to use it like fragger’s nade.

(Sefuh_FR) #19
  • Only guided rocket mode
  • longer charge
  • Reduce rocket speed but make it invincible to bullets
  • 10% dmg increased on EV

–> Javelin will be “unsafe” for a longer time while controlling her rocket
–> longer charge should prevent Javelin to use her rocket in 1V1 , or in enemy’s sight.
–> dmg increased on EV : i’m pretty sure Nader is now better at destroying EV and Javelin being better than Nader as Assault lul

(TepidJesus) #20

@Sefuh_FR Javelin is definitly not the only merc that can whip out there ability in a 1v1 take proxy for example, most people who play proxy (who probably also play Teemo in LoL) will just throw their mine down mid fight and quite happily shoot it weather they are going to die or not, so javelin doing the same thing doesn’t seem like something that needs solving. If you increase the time before the rocket is fired it will make the mechanic seem really weird, think about it, if I click to fire my rocket launcher then I have to wait in the open for two seconds or wait behind a wall and then pop out, changing the charge time will just make her feel clunky. I do not want a repeat of Stoker, where he got need into the ground right after launch where he has never recovered.