Javelin is Air/Fire Support or shes Assault. Devs need to pick one not both

(Sorotia) #41

It’s funny…people complain about panic close range shots…and then ask to change the rocket to guided mode only…which will only promote lower skill players using the rocket in close range…thus promoting what they complain about the most.

Guided mode leaves you vulnerable and travels slower, so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist (pun intended) to see that will only promote low skill players using the launcher in close range. So as much better chance not to miss and very short time of vulnerability.

(KayDubz) #42

@bgyoshi said:

@KayDubz said:
Tell me how he belongs in a discussion about Javelin when she can one shot gib every merc in the game on direct hits? And when shes the only one with this ability without air strikes (which are slow to arrive btw)

Please show me the compilation of direct rocket hits vs direct sticky hits

Oh yeah, it’s about 600,000x easier to stick a bomb on someone, that’s right.

He belongs in the discussion because he is the best engineer and no other engineer can ever hope to compete with him in power. Turtle comes close having clutch shield defusing possibilities, but that has yet to be tested in a 5v5 environment. Proxy is too weak to compete; mines don’t go far, have to be shot, and she has very low HP. Bushy has no explosives and his turret is a pea shooter. Turtle has almost no combat capabilities BUT his shield is very useful and can slide a battle one way or another. Fletcher is fast, has infinite grenades, and both a shotgun or blishlok. Fletcher can detonate a mine and spray fire a shotgun before you even know you’ve been stuck.

That’s the definition of an actually OP merc; a merc that outclasses everyone of his type in every area. He has more HP, explosives, damage, and survivability than all engineers, on top of having no weaknesses.

Jav is good, but can’t destroy the EV like Kira, Arty, or Haggis. Jav is good, but rockets are extremely limited in functionality compared to nader nades. Jav is good, but can’t disable bombs and support stations like Phantom. Every other support has benefits over Jav that Jav can’t compete with, and Jav has the benefit of a combat explosive and autodistributing ammo. Those two things don’t outclass all other support, it just makes her different.

STICKY BOMBS ARE NOT ONE HIT GIBS. And they don’t one hit kill nearly all mercs except for 3 squishies. Rockets can one hit gib and kill ALL MERCS on direct hit. No other merc can do that indoors or without an obviously slow air strike.

Fletcher is not comparable to Javelin. End of story. he doesn’t belong in this discussion.

(Eox) #43

@KayDubz said:

@bgyoshi said:

@KayDubz said:
Tell me how he belongs in a discussion about Javelin when she can one shot gib every merc in the game on direct hits? And when shes the only one with this ability without air strikes (which are slow to arrive btw)

Please show me the compilation of direct rocket hits vs direct sticky hits

Oh yeah, it’s about 600,000x easier to stick a bomb on someone, that’s right.

He belongs in the discussion because he is the best engineer and no other engineer can ever hope to compete with him in power. Turtle comes close having clutch shield defusing possibilities, but that has yet to be tested in a 5v5 environment. Proxy is too weak to compete; mines don’t go far, have to be shot, and she has very low HP. Bushy has no explosives and his turret is a pea shooter. Turtle has almost no combat capabilities BUT his shield is very useful and can slide a battle one way or another. Fletcher is fast, has infinite grenades, and both a shotgun or blishlok. Fletcher can detonate a mine and spray fire a shotgun before you even know you’ve been stuck.

That’s the definition of an actually OP merc; a merc that outclasses everyone of his type in every area. He has more HP, explosives, damage, and survivability than all engineers, on top of having no weaknesses.

Jav is good, but can’t destroy the EV like Kira, Arty, or Haggis. Jav is good, but rockets are extremely limited in functionality compared to nader nades. Jav is good, but can’t disable bombs and support stations like Phantom. Every other support has benefits over Jav that Jav can’t compete with, and Jav has the benefit of a combat explosive and autodistributing ammo. Those two things don’t outclass all other support, it just makes her different.

STICKY BOMBS ARE NOT ONE HIT GIBS. And they don’t one hit kill nearly all mercs except for 3 squishies.

*four.

Aura, Sparks, Proxy and Kira.

(TheFpsPro27) #44

@henki000 said:
I think the solution for this instagib matter would be buffing downed mercs. They could shoot with pistols with reduced acc or creep slowly. Then it should not be counted as a kill if they get revived.

I think a developer had seen your comment. In a reddit comment a developer said that they will increase the hp of downed merchs. (And they will also nerf the rocket (not phantom level of nerf))

(bgyoshi) #45

@KayDubz said:

STICKY BOMBS ARE NOT ONE HIT GIBS.

Neither are rockets, end of story :slight_smile:

Nobody can show proof that rockets are always one hit gibs and all of my matches in DB as and against Jav have all given clear proof that they aren’t.

@woodchip said:
She’s probably about as superior to the other fire supports as Fletcher is to the other Engis, maybe a bit more. She roundly outclasses Stoker and Skyhammer in almost all non-EV situations, and is clearly stronget than Kira except on a handful of map points. Her rocket does barely less DPS / min to the EV than the lazer, actually. Her most played loadouts give her a rocket CD almost 1/2 the lazers.

She does 10 dps to the EV in the form of 300 damage every rocket, Kira’s laser does 900 damage in 10 seconds every 50 seconds. So in one minute, Jav does 600 damage to the EV and 900 if we go 61 seconds, and Kira does 1800 damage.

How is that barely less DPS/min?

@woodchip said:
There are also some situations where Fragger can get virtually guaranteed kills regardless of counterplay, but those situations are rarer and also require the Fragger to be fairly skilled.

I can see all this rare and skilled situations you’re talking about. So rare, so much skill.

Look at all of those rare nade ops at :42 1:01 1:25 1:44 with a high amount of skill required and definitely weren’t free kills

She can’t be OP relative to her peers if her peers do better at some aspect of support than she does. Support is responsible for ammo supply, EV disabling, and area denial. Fletcher does better at EVERY aspect of engineer than his peers. Engineers are responsible for Objective plant/repair and get medium weapons for self protection. His bombs are stronger and more versatile than proxy mines and Bush turrets, having both bombs and shotties makes him stronger in all regards that Turtle, and he has more HP for better survivability than all engineers. There is nothing that any engineer does better than Fletcher. I did once say that it’s arguable that Turtle shields can be situationally better in the case of a last second suicide plant/defuse or a random clutch shield to get the team in play, but a strong Fletcher actually racking up frags is always more important.

(KayDubz) #46

Yes rockets are one hit gibs. Everyone whos been playing the game has seen that.

I’m done with the circular arguing with you. If you looked at the dev response on reddit…they’ve already admitted they will be changing the instagib Javelin does. So they see the problem and acknowledge its existence.

EDIT - Using old fragger videos does not prove a point. Especially when people killed by direct hit nades can be revived right away (happens a lot). While direct hit rockets insta-gib people.

(bgyoshi) #47

@KayDubz said:
EDIT - Using old fragger videos does not prove a point. Especially when people killed by direct hit nades can be revived right away (happens a lot). While direct hit rockets insta-gib people.

You literally cannot prove it and I know you won’t even try to. It’s just mountains of salt pouring all over the place making people exaggerate power out of frustration. If you get gibbed 3 out of 10 times, that’s a 100% chance of gib to you.

I can use new Fragger videos if you want, or make my own. Take your pick, they’re no different than end of 2016 Fragger.

(asdfqwop) #48

@bgyoshi said:

@KayDubz said:
EDIT - Using old fragger videos does not prove a point. Especially when people killed by direct hit nades can be revived right away (happens a lot). While direct hit rockets insta-gib people.

You literally cannot prove it and I know you won’t even try to. It’s just mountains of salt pouring all over the place making people exaggerate power out of frustration. If you get gibbed 3 out of 10 times, that’s a 100% chance of gib to you.

I can use new Fragger videos if you want, or make my own. Take your pick, they’re no different than end of 2016 Fragger.

Show me a video of a fragger who uses the frag grenade as a panic button like javelin’s rocket. You can’t because if a fragger uses the grenade during combat he dies before the grenade explodes.

Did someone suddenly appeared and started shooting you while you are using javelin? No problem because you only need to live 1 second to shoot the noob tube(rocket) and you don’t even need to aim.

(KayDubz) #49

@bgyoshi said:

@KayDubz said:
EDIT - Using old fragger videos does not prove a point. Especially when people killed by direct hit nades can be revived right away (happens a lot). While direct hit rockets insta-gib people.

You literally cannot prove it and I know you won’t even try to. It’s just mountains of salt pouring all over the place making people exaggerate power out of frustration. If you get gibbed 3 out of 10 times, that’s a 100% chance of gib to you.

I can use new Fragger videos if you want, or make my own. Take your pick, they’re no different than end of 2016 Fragger.

Look at the new dev video kid.

They specifically point out that Javelin instagibs 200 HP on splash damage alone.


You fail.

(bgyoshi) #50

@stayfreshshoe said:

  • Mercs 100HP and under can still just about be instagibbed by radial damage alone
  • Previously, all Mercs up to 200HP could potentially be instagibbed with radial damage alone

What? I’m sorry unless I misunderstand the definition of potentially…

  • po·ten·tial·ly
  • pəˈten(t)SHəlē/Submit
  • adverb
  • adverb: potentially
  • with the capacity to develop or happen in the future.
  • “newly available oil might potentially create a drop in prices”

As in not guaranteed, but possible. As if… as if there was some condition that had to be met to cause a gib, that applied to mercs under 200 HP…

As in… not instant… HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I guess I was absolutely correct the entire time. Strange.

(neverplayseriou) #51

You weren’t correct at all, any direct hit on a Rhino was an instagib before this patch.

(bgyoshi) #52

@neverplayseriou said:
You weren’t correct at all, any direct hit on a Rhino was an instagib before this patch.

It wasn’t though? And also…

@stayfreshshoe said:

  • Rocket Launcher will now only instagib Mercs over 100HP with direct hits

It still will???

I’m pretty certain everyone agrees that direct hits should gib.

(KayDubz) #53

@bgyoshi said:

There was a video the devs did showing that 200 HP can and will be gibbed by radial damage if its close enough. Just stop. You were wrong! Ill repeat it again…the devs admitted that radius damage could instagib every single merc in the game, and they changed that with todays update.

Javelin has been nerfed as of today.

Look at the video I linked before and just stop. Youre embarrassing yourself.

(Reddeadcap) #54

She’s a fire support Thats more effective in direct line of sight instead of air strikes and less effective against the EV.

I do not enjoy the fact that she can swap firing modes midflight and that her rocket cooldown is so quick.

Via console commands the rocket launcher before took a minute to cool down, it could’ve been a HEAT rocket for maximum damage against armor (the EV, generators)

Im my opiniom the rocket should damage the ev more

Balanced out by it’s AOE maybe being smaller

Cooldown speed somewhere between 45 seconds or 1 minute

Firing mode stays the same after it’s fired

My main complaint is her ammo pack, I honestly believe it being a passive has to be the single most laziest idea for an ability I have ever heard,

Here’s a fine idea, by pressing e near a friendly or them near Javelin she hands them/they take an ammo belt, reloading so long as they stay near her, the max of course being 4 mercs connecting to Javelin at a time.

The interesting note is that there is build up to her, like every fire support, but still it does feel like just a better Fragger.

(Your worst knifemare.) #55

Shes a hybrid like Phantom.

(Reddeadcap) #56

@Lord_Coctus said:
Shes a hybrid like Phantom.
Not exactly, Phantom counts as a Recon, who works as a foil to other recons, rather than detecting his job is to hide, instead of being long range, he is close range.

I brought up that Phantom could have a detection tool that differs to others in some threads I’ve made, making it more powerful but at a higher risk.

Look at it in this perspective.
While Arty and Kira have the same weapon loadouts, they have different health and speed.

Ability wise Arty’s and Kira’s functionality is the opposite, Kira has you constantly controlling a high damage beam with a massive cooldown, Arty fires small bursts of high damage in a fire and forget faction.

Then there’s their ammo abilities.

Stoker’s speciality is the fact that his ability isn’t an airstrike and he tosses it, focusing more on area denial rather than burst damage.

Skyhammer and Stoker have the same health and weapons, with the exception of their one burst rifle.

Skyhammer all the fire supports beat due to versatility, his Flare does 100 damage at max is someone is under it and he gets it back every 15 seconds if he tossed it indoors, but of course the best part of his airstrikes is outdoors, which does a lot of collateral damage, second to Kira’s laser in area covered or on par if you ask me, with her’s having the advantage that you can control it.

Javeline primary weapon selection has one of everything, The M4A1 and Timik, BR-16 and Stark are frankly very similar. by having the Dreiss, the BR-16 and the new shar-c we have a decent selection.

Her Ability is best put with a side by side comparison with Arty, Arty needs areal line of sight for his salvos, he has 2 and recharges faster than Javelin, Javelin has one rocket and needs direct line of sight and needs to guide a rocket which can be shot down or EMP’d, Arty’s on the other hand can’t be stopped.
This is just me speculating but I think Arty’s salvo even has a wider area of effect and more damage than Javelin’s rocket, which is 300 dmaage I believe.

Javelin is better at attacking enemies from a distance with her rocket and can guide it, this also brings up the one down side Arty, Skyhammer and Kira can do better than her. They can do a lot of damage to the EV, while her rocket can’t.

In my opinion, she could do more damage to the EV, but suffer from a 45 second cooldown and have a smaller blast radius, making it function more like an AT or HEAT projectile rather than a High-Explosive one.

Lastly, Her ability is crap, I think she should be able to press a key to lock a belt with a nearby merc or they can interact with her instantly to get ammo given to them, it just being passive has to be the worst idea for an ammo ability if you ask me, even if it’s at a reduced rate of a station, at least a station has to be put down.

(watsyurdeal) #57

Bottom line is

Javelin on her own with her Launcher is strong enough, so much in fact that the ammo ability, seems very tacked on. So does she really need it? Could she function fine as an Assault? Or is it really necessary to have a 5th fire support?

(bgyoshi) #58

@KayDubz said:
the devs admitted that radius damage could instagib every single merc in the game, and they changed that with todays update.

I never said it couldn’t. People said it always would, I said it wouldn’t always, and it didn’t.

Javelin has been nerfed as of today.

Look at the video I linked before and just stop. Youre embarrassing yourself.

I’ve seen it plenty, I’d hardly call what they did a nerf in any functional manner rofl

I haven’t noticed any actual difference in the K/D performance of Javelins, at all. I’m just glad they did something to quiet you guys down, even though nothing really changed.