Javelin is Air/Fire Support or shes Assault. Devs need to pick one not both

(KayDubz) #1

This is how I think Javelin needs to be.

Remove the standard straight rocket shot. And make her guided missle only. Decrease the area of effect and damage just a tad so its not an easy insta-gib like it is currently. This would make her fit in more as an air support merc. And would force her to be vulnerable to guide the missle. You know…the same way Kira is vulnerable when guiding. Also increase her cooldown, and give her a better audio and visual warning to the guided missle before she shoots

Why those suggestions? Because all the other air support mercs cannot use their ability to instantly gib someone in a ground battle in one second. The assault mercs cannot either. All the other air support mercs have to take time to deploy their air support, and then wait for it to reach an opponent. And those mercs also have obvious sounds warning players long before the air support arrives. As well as a colored beam on the ground warning of location.

Seems the devs were caught in two minds when creating Javelin. They made her a very good fire/air support merc, that’s also a very good assault merc. They give her a straight shot that insta-gibs 1 or more people every 30 seconds. So shes basically what Fragger used to be…without the 3 or 4 second cooking time he has. And without the red trail or loud beeping/chiming noise that Fragger and Nader have.

Dunno why devs thought it was a good idea to turn an air support merc into an overly efficient killing machine that outkills Fragger now…can instagib with a non-air attack (they nerfed this for all other mercs a year ago) along with her ammo giving ability, where she doesn’t have to pause in battle to give herself or others ammo (which every other merc has to take a couple seconds to drop ammo).

Make up your mind Devs. Is Javelin primarily air/fire support…or is she primarily an assault merc rivaling Fragger’s potential?

I have more thoughts on her primary gun, primary melee and ammo ability…but that’s for another thread. But they all add into her being way to good at rivaling both the best fire and assault mercs of the game.

(kittz0r) #2

The Rocket Launcher doesn’t shoot immediately, so your whole point is already invalid.

(Mr-Penguin) #3

@kittz0r said:
The Rocket Launcher doesn’t shoot immediately, so your whole point is already invalid.

1 second usually isn’t enough time to react to a rocket… plus that can be easily negated by walking around a corner while priming.

The rocket needs a much more audible audio cue before launch and an increase in charge time. Any other changes can be made later.

(TacticalMech) #4

I agree, in my opinion as of now Javelin plays too much like an assault merc + ammo. Some changes are definitely needed.

(CoctimusPrime) #5

Agree with premise of the OP’s post. My personal preference is that Javelin is modified to act more in line with Nader as far as the rocket goes. Low splash damage, high direct hit damage, multiple rockets in a clip that fully refill relatively slowly. Just my opinion. And they have GOT to get rid of that asinine ammo-dispensing ability. They need to make it so that she needs to rely on different characters to an extent-- right now she is almost entirely self-sufficient.

(GatoCommodore) #6

arty, kira, skyhammer can instagib

even stoker if the victim trapped in the fire

(KayDubz) #7

@GatoCommodore said:
arty, kira, skyhammer can instagib

even stoker if the victim trapped in the fire

You clearly didn’t read my post.

*1. Stoker is not a one hit instagib. You have to sit in the fire for a few seconds.

*2. Arty Kira and Sky have to direct hit you with an air strike/laser and it has to damage you multiple times. One missle from a Arty or Sky airstrike does not gib you. If only one hits you (which often happens with Arty), itll kill you but not gib.

Kira laser has to directly hit and stay on you to gib. If its not direct…you can run and jump away from it. Ive seen plenty of people outrun the laser after it slightly tags them. And even though the laser has pretty good gib potential if you land it right on top of someone, its got double the cooldown of Javelin.

Didn’t I also earlier mention that those guys all have higher cooldowns, light markers on the ground signaling where the strikes come from, and a delay of a few seconds before the attacks even arrive and reach their target?

So how are these mercs abilities at all like Javelin…whos able to one shot and gib you even if she shoots near your feet and not directly. Javelin who has an instagib ready every 30 seconds. Javelin who has no glowing light to warn that shes shooting.

*3. And lets not forget shes the ONLY fire support merc that can one shot insta gib indoors. Which is especially important on maps like Underground. Tell me again how the other fire support mercs abilities are similar.

(Demolama) #8

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-KIl6vluHBg&t=1s

In RTCW and W:ET the panzerfaust was a high risk, high reward weapon. The user was an “assault style merc” and therefore could not resupply himself. He was also armed only with a pistol, 4 nades, and a knife. Thus, if the panzer user misses with his panzer shot he was very vulnerable until it was up again.

Javelin screams of being Dazzler all over again.

Not only does Javelin not run out of ammo for her panzer, she can resupply herself for her other weapons. She has a strong rifle. Basically, there is no high risk for her.

Since DB is the grandson of RTCW, I really wish the developers would spend some time playing RTCW’s multiplayer and learn about what made RTCW a great competitive shooter

(DirtyBuns) #9

They can start by putting the Fragger-style Red Circle on the rocket…

#10

After spending another day exclusively as Javelin with no less than 2 on every enemy team, I’ll concede that she does need a change despite being on record telling people to wait it out a bit this morning. I agree with most of the OP’s suggestions and everything along those lines seems to be the general consensus in game as well. Keep in mind that I’m sayin’ this as someone who likes Jav and she’ll likely end up as one of my most played mercs, if not the most while surpassing my Stoker and Nader play time. To expand on your points and add a few of my own:

  1. Regenerative ammo definitely needs to change. Either significantly increase the cooldown for your teammates to receive some as well, make it require some sort of physical action like a keydown skill for a second if the cooldown is left unchanged, or limit the regeneration to only herself. She can and will run out of ammo fairly quickly for herself due to the cooldown, but a constant supply of ammo to your teammates without any effort is too much. She’s able to rack in so much support score from it and it’s an obvious disparity between other support mercs - even Phoenix who’s notorious for being able to climb to the top of the score from easy healing xp. She needs to be more balanced between a support/assault role like Stoker as the OP has said.

  2. Make the rocket cooldown slightly longer by about 10 seconds or so. 35-45 seconds seems reasonable. Any less and it’s too soon, any more and it’d feel a bit too long and start nearing Skyhammer’s and Kira’s ability cooldowns.

  3. OP’s idea of removing standard fire mode from the rocket is a great idea, but I think some changes to standard would be better. Guided only will leave her vulnerable and incapable of direct firing and then almost immediately following up some shots to pick off any surviving targets or moving out of the way. This is good. However, I think standard fire could still have some applications. Maybe make the charging time longer for standard fire compared to guided? Make the type of firing mode determine the length of cooldown? Have standard fire rockets move at a slower velocity or do less splash damage than the guided variant? Make standard fire do more damage to equipment and the EV and less to enemy players? Etc.

  4. Decrease her HP by a tiny amount.

  5. Regarding her axe and loadouts and what have you, I think they’re fine and unique. She’s a Germanic/Norwegian viking; that axe should be powerful and quick.

  6. Charging sound or some sort of visual laser/heating barrel to alert people that the rocket is about to be fired.

  7. An inability to weapon/knife swap cancel the rocket from being fired like Fragger, Thunder, Stoker, and so on can do while cooking their grenades. This will help mitigate the amount of ‘precharging’ around corners.

Overall, there’s plenty that can be done and I don’t think anything major should change. I’m definitely not proposing that all of these changes happen. Some slight tweaks and she’ll be golden.

*I didn’t emphasize enough that I don’t view the amount of damage or splash damage from the rocket being the issue. I don’t think it is whatsoever because it’s a rocket and should be like that. She just needs to be more vulnerable, have some delays, sounds, or cooldowns tweaked a tiny bit, and that regenerative ammo dramatically changed.

(Cletus_VanDamme) #11

Mods can you guys please merge all the Javelin sook threads into one.

Yeah she’s strong, and you’d have to be blind to not see the incoming nerf.

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn.

(woodchip) #12

She’s obviously going to eat a nerf to her rocket. But even with a nerfed rocket she should have lower HP than her fire support peers. As long as the rocket keeps its general behavior plus or minus a small nerf to charge time or cooldown it will feel closer to an assault merc ability because it’s way harder to dodge than the other fire support stuff. No matter how they nerf it, it’s still going to be the only fire support skill that scores reliable 1 hit kills.

So with that in mind, I’d rather they just embrace Javelin’s weird hybrid role and nerf her HP by 10 or maybe even 20. So she’s the fire support with an assaultish ability but medicish health. That keeps her unique and also gives you space to keep her missile powerful.

Balancing Javelin’s missile to have the same killing power as arty or molotov would require nerfing it so far into the ground that I can’t even imagine how you would do it. Better to just let it be a bit overtuned and balance Javelin around it.

(Eox) #13

Moving to merc discussions.

(GatoCommodore) #14

@woodchip said:
She’s obviously going to eat a nerf to her rocket. But even with a nerfed rocket she should have lower HP than her fire support peers. As long as the rocket keeps its general behavior plus or minus a small nerf to charge time or cooldown it will feel closer to an assault merc ability because it’s way harder to dodge than the other fire support stuff. No matter how they nerf it, it’s still going to be the only fire support skill that scores reliable 1 hit kills.

So with that in mind, I’d rather they just embrace Javelin’s weird hybrid role and nerf her HP by 10 or maybe even 20. So she’s the fire support with an assaultish ability but medicish health. That keeps her unique and also gives you space to keep her missile powerful.

now that you mention it,
we dont have fire support with 100hp

(Dysfnal) #15

now that you mention it,
we don’t have a fire support with 10000hp

jus sayin

legit tho, she needs longer prime and an audio cue, and her cooldown is too long for assault (notice all the others can use their abilities much more frequently), so she definitely fits best as a fire support. Her ability should be easily avoided but hard hitting, just like all other fire supports

(zadory) #16

Skyhammer’s airstrike

  1. damages: 500DPS
  2. cool down: 60S
  3. Highly ground effect

Kira’s Obital Laser:

  1. damages: 550DPS and 10S duration
  2. cool down: 50S
  3. Highly ground effect

Arty’s Artillery Spotter

  1. damages: 270 DPS
  2. cool down: 25S
  3. small ground wffect

stoker’s Molotov

  1. damages: 77DPS+30DPS outer with 10S duration
  2. cool down: 35S
  3. highly ground effect

Jave’s Rocket
2. damages: 400DPS
3. cool down: 30S
4. small ground effect

Every fire support merc could instagib. and it seems ok with 30S cool down in Jave. (ground effect not longer than 1 sec,and take risk: cannot cancel firing and need still 1 sec while others don’t ). can Jave just throw a signal and take gun out to shoot? No. Can Jave have high impact on masive ground to make everybody run? No.

I don’t see there is reason to make her cool down time longer than molotov. Molotov has other impact not only it’s damage, and it alway do masive change in OBJ mode.

By the way. EVERY SMG/RIFLES dps is higher than 120, that means basicly every merc could have equal chance to kill each, not to mention other mercs special ability.

And since someone mention RTCW. I tell you the truth. Rocket in RTCW also instagib and WITH NO COOL DOWN TIME just reload time. it also could refill ammo from anothers. It’s more powerful and easy than in dirty bomb.(no one cry about it) (oh, it could cancel firing just press e to treat you)

(GatoCommodore) #17

@Dys[fn]al said:
now that you mention it,
we don’t have a fire support with 10000hp

jus sayin

legit tho, she needs longer prime and an audio cue, and her cooldown is too long for assault (notice all the others can use their abilities much more frequently), so she definitely fits best as a fire support. Her ability should be easily avoided but hard hitting, just like all other fire supports

nono, what i meant is we have medic that has 100hp because he trades healing speed and AoE healing (can heal entire team instantly) by having 100hp

Recon that has SMG, invisibility, ability to tank sniper shot to the head and he trade this ability with having 100hp

a fire support that can actually direct her fire support for a full 10 seconds and faster speed than most fire support justifies her ability to do this by only having 90hp

you see where im going with this?
javelin had the ability to keep replenishing ammo to friendlies all the time and her fire support ability is shooting a missile that can be controlled for deep strike and removes enemy camp spot (much like stoker but doesnt deny an area)

(SaulWolfden) #18

@GatoCommodore said:

@woodchip said:
She’s obviously going to eat a nerf to her rocket. But even with a nerfed rocket she should have lower HP than her fire support peers. As long as the rocket keeps its general behavior plus or minus a small nerf to charge time or cooldown it will feel closer to an assault merc ability because it’s way harder to dodge than the other fire support stuff. No matter how they nerf it, it’s still going to be the only fire support skill that scores reliable 1 hit kills.

So with that in mind, I’d rather they just embrace Javelin’s weird hybrid role and nerf her HP by 10 or maybe even 20. So she’s the fire support with an assaultish ability but medicish health. That keeps her unique and also gives you space to keep her missile powerful.

now that you mention it,
we dont have fire support with 100hp

Easy, buff Kira’s HP to 100, she’s the only 90 HP merc that shouldn’t be there.

(GatoCommodore) #19

@SaulWolfden said:
Easy, buff Kira’s HP to 100, she’s the only 90 HP merc that shouldn’t be there.

she was even more faster before the speed nerf.
and i was also confused on why kira HP didnt get buffed when they nerf the speed

(Gire) #20

@GatoCommodore Please no… Kira is good now, no need to buff her. Her lazer covers it all up.