Is vassili OP or balanced

(toolboxMason) #21

This pretty much. Give an option/command to change scoped sensitivity and he’s fine.

(bubblesOrchid) #22

Here is the last match I had today playing with Vassili,the trick is keep changing position.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37498283452812067/C5F85176FF9DB301C6FE16C7D714B0F5966CE143/

Plus sometimes you guys kinda help standing on the open or going to the Fixed MG position when you know there is a sniper on the enemy team.

(bubblesOrchid) #23

Trick:Don t stay on the open or go to the fixed mg positions.

And if you know how to take the map advantage points like me you can end up like this sometimes,but for every win I take with vassili I get called an hacker for pulling headshoots,guess everyone bashes on vassilis when they do good.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37498283452812067/C5F85176FF9DB301C6FE16C7D714B0F5966CE143/

(vdll) #24

“Unstoppable” badge! Incredible! Did MissMurder call you to offer her love yet?

(genuineScion) #25

From what I’ve seen people who snipe well can kill a lot of people, but he’s often less helpful with objectives, that seems pretty fair (although some games definitely turn into a deathmatch, which is a shame, and maybe Vasili contributes to this).

(titaniumCrouton) #26

If they’re in proper position, killing does help with the objective rather defending a point or a planted C4, sniping out targets trying to bomb the EV, etc, etc, etc.

(vdll) #27

If they’re in proper position, killing does help with the objective rather defending a point or a planted C4, sniping out targets trying to bomb the EV, etc, etc, etc.
[/quote]

True, but unfortunatelly people choose safer plant locations too often (even when they can pick a spot easily covered by sniper), for fear of being caught in process.

(son!) #28

from comp point of view, it has too much impact relative to the skill it takes. It can communicate enemy positions w/out any real effort, and it can frag without support. This means good snipers don’t need great game sense because their heartbeat sensor can tell you everything you need to know and don’t need to coordinate with their team (like a fragger does) to shut down a team. Right now it is required to have a good sniper on your team to perform well, which is pretty funny considering how little the sniper actually needs to play with a team.

As for pub play, just look at the top streamers who have been streaming DB lately, all of them are sniping. Low skill high reward.

(Szakalot) #29

[quote=“son!;20818”]from comp point of view, it has too much impact relative to the skill it takes. It can communicate enemy positions w/out any real effort, and it can frag without support. This means good snipers don’t need great game sense because their heartbeat sensor can tell you everything you need to know and don’t need to coordinate with their team (like a fragger does) to shut down a team. Right now it is required to have a good sniper on your team to perform well, which is pretty funny considering how little the sniper actually needs to play with a team.

As for pub play, just look at the top streamers who have been streaming DB lately, all of them are sniping. Low skill high reward.[/quote]

the main power of the snipa is the instagib. If medic trains werent as ridiculous as they are now, people would move away from snipes.

(son!) #30

[quote=“Szakalot;20847”]

the main power of the snipa is the instagib. If medic trains werent as ridiculous as they are now, people would move away from snipes.[/quote]

Even if gibs were easier (like one headshot on downed player gibs) you would still see snipers. Reason is it’s as much of a killer as a fragger and gets information from the sensor–it does both with minimal coordination with the team. If you gave me the medic attention as fragger that a sniper usually gets, I’d be feeding and bottom-fragging. I may be able to give out enemy positions as a result but now my team is fighting one player down.
Kudo and I even talk about minutia like what angle he should try and hold to consistently hit me with a pack in the middle of a fight. IMO that’s the type of skill and coordination that should result in something powerful, not a tunnel-visioned sniper off playing instagib on his own. But the fact is the way it is now a decent sniper does as much as a medic+fragger.

Also the res train you’re describing requires at least two things, coordination between medics, and enemies taking down the wrong targets. There could be tweaks to it like a small amount of diminishing returns and I’d be happy; but something more extreme I’d be very unhappy with. I admit a bit of bias in this regard because I play fragger and actually really enjoy the power struggle you get in fragger-medic vs fragger-medic fights.

(t3hsquirr3l) #31

I think I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure I agree that it shouldn’t be a top killer. Being a sniper means that you aren’t great for objectives and you don’t have much in the way of support. You are only good for kills.

If a sniper can’t kill at least as well as a tankier merc in the thick of it (supported or no), then they really serve no purpose at all.

I could probably be persuaded to agree that the heartbeat sensor might be too complete a package for perfect sniping, but it would just be offloaded to another merc and the end result would be the same.

Ideally all that power at range should come at a cost, which generally defaults to weakness at close range and/or having a high skill requirement. Lower health and an unwieldy rifle is not a healthy thing vs a fast or tanky type with a shotgun or assault rifle, and you actually have to be a good steady shot vs moving targets to be of any use.

And overall I feel like the teamwork part of sniping is knowing where to cover and who to shoot first; I’ve seen too many snipers topping the kill charts but losing the game due to hunting kills instead of paying attention to what each team is actually doing.

In the end I hope wins/losses means more than k/d in competitions.

(Ardez1) #32

[quote=“son!;20818”]from comp point of view, it has too much impact relative to the skill it takes. It can communicate enemy positions w/out any real effort, and it can frag without support. This means good snipers don’t need great game sense because their heartbeat sensor can tell you everything you need to know and don’t need to coordinate with their team (like a fragger does) to shut down a team. Right now it is required to have a good sniper on your team to perform well, which is pretty funny considering how little the sniper actually needs to play with a team.

As for pub play, just look at the top streamers who have been streaming DB lately, all of them are sniping. Low skill high reward.[/quote]

A good sniper with a bad team still loses the match. A decent sniper with a good team will win. Pretty much what @t3hsquirr3l said is true.

(watsyurdeal) #33

[quote=“son!;20818”]from comp point of view, it has too much impact relative to the skill it takes. It can communicate enemy positions w/out any real effort, and it can frag without support. This means good snipers don’t need great game sense because their heartbeat sensor can tell you everything you need to know and don’t need to coordinate with their team (like a fragger does) to shut down a team. Right now it is required to have a good sniper on your team to perform well, which is pretty funny considering how little the sniper actually needs to play with a team.

As for pub play, just look at the top streamers who have been streaming DB lately, all of them are sniping. Low skill high reward.[/quote]

Well that’s kinda irrelevant because aside from headshots gibbing that’s the only other purpose he serves.

Nerf or take that away and he becomes entirely useless

Saying it takes no skill is kind of a pointless argument because it’s not SUPPOSED to, kinda like how Revive, throwing down med packs, ammo packs, repairing, etc, none of those take skill at all. It’s a utility, so it needs to be easy to use and have an important part of the meta. Plus you can shoot the sensors, getting rid of them completely.

(son!) #34

It should be a good killer, but yes it should not be a top killer. Top killers should be there from start to finish in a map and need team support to rake in the kills. Snipers should be something you pick up carefully because its very risky to do so. The state of comp atm that’s not true. ATM you have players as sniper mains that switch off to other mercs as situational because the mechanics aren’t difficult/punishing enough to force the sniper to be situational.

Most players do like to use the sniper (myself included), so major overhaul to its mechanics should not happen. Finer tweaks to things like re-chambering time, mag size, or even scope power I’d be ok with. The secondary SMG though is a bit ridiculous and really should just be a pistol. Though to force it to be situational without screwing with its mechanics I would do something like double its respawn time. Potential of fighting two waves as 4v5 would scare most teams from always running a sniper.

(t3hsquirr3l) #35

This I do agree with, right now the machine pistols take away a bit too much of the risk of close combat for a sniper. I think the loss of MPs alone would lessen the numbers of dedicated snipers in a match and encourage the remaining ones to stay at greater range and be more careful in moving forward.

I feel like staying further back by itself makes the role a bit more situational, as your effective kill zones are greatly reduced due to buildings, cover, and alternate map routes that you simply can’t see around at longer ranges.

(titaniumCrouton) #36

This I do agree with, right now the machine pistols take away a bit too much of the risk of close combat for a sniper. I think the loss of MPs alone would lessen the numbers of dedicated snipers in a match and encourage the remaining ones to stay at greater range and be more careful in moving forward.

I feel like staying further back by itself makes the role a bit more situational, as your effective kill zones are greatly reduced due to buildings, cover, and alternate map routes that you simply can’t see around at longer ranges.
[/quote]

So…lets make them useless then and give them no ability to fight back close while every single other class can fight at every range effectively?..kay

(vdll) #37

No other class has ability to oneshot every merc at max distance, so making Vas vulnerable cqc sounds reasonable. Pistols are very potent too, just harder to use effectively, comparing to laser MPs.

(titaniumCrouton) #38

and no other merc requires such a high accuracy, a slow weapon that is useless at medium/short range and is actually the only class forced to rely on there secondary. Even then, you don’t insta win at range, you make a mistake and they can, from max distance, just shoot you all the same.

Sorry but just because he can one shot you with a headshot instead of three shotting you with headshots from an AR does not in anyway justify what you’re asking. What you’re suggesting is basically making a Vas a free kill the moment you get within X distance so he has no way to fight back.

Sorry, but that isn’t going to happen, it shouldn’t happen and it won’t happen.

(vdll) #39

Eh? I didn’t suggest much so far, I just chimed in regarding Vassili being too strong cqc. Also, sniper is not hard to play in this game and to be honest, long range engagements with assault rifle require way more accuracy and crosshair control comparing to SR.
P.S. I snipe a lot btw

(t3hsquirr3l) #40

[quote=“titaniumCrouton;21223”]
and no other merc requires such a high accuracy, a slow weapon that is useless at medium/short range and is actually the only class forced to rely on there secondary. Even then, you don’t insta win at range, you make a mistake and they can, from max distance, just shoot you all the same.

Sorry but just because he can one shot you with a headshot instead of three shotting you with headshots from an AR does not in anyway justify what you’re asking. What you’re suggesting is basically making a Vas a free kill the moment you get within X distance so he has no way to fight back.

Sorry, but that isn’t going to happen, it shouldn’t happen and it won’t happen.[/quote]
Don’t underestimate pistols. They are completely viable for use in emergencies, as I use them all the time. MPs are a bit more effective simply because they are a more reliable source of damage due to their spammy nature. I feel like this gives too much flexibility for the power Vas has at any range he can land a headshot.

A good sniper (particularly with teammates in front) can really lock down an area, with the only contenders being some ARs. They can’t oneshot though and many an arty and skyhammer have met their doom trying to snipe a sniper, either because the sniper headshot them or because his teammates took advantage of the tunnel vision caused by trying to hit him.

The best way to deal with a good sniper should be to close the gap and engage at ranges that make the rifle unwieldy (indoors, shotgun range), but the MP makes even that a riskier proposition than it should be IMO.