Is splash damage in trouble?

(ToonBE) #1

Are they or are they not? That is the question.

When I hear people calling dirty bomb “****ty bomb” I do think there is a problem. Even more so when nobody seems up for a community event like the one potty and pixel are setting up. A lot of players became realy unhappy after the Darwinian patch and it shows…

What are your oppinions and what would you like to see to make you realy want to play the game? What does it need to have an active competitive scene like CSGO or LoL? How do you think dirty bomb will cope with competition from upcomming games like overwatch and toxikk?

Let us talk about this and hope SD will take this thread into consideration in further development. Because I also think the game is going in the wrong direction.

(stealth6) #2

Is splash damage in trouble? No

Is DB in trouble? Yes

(Bangtastic) #3

I do think SD has to cope with internal and external problems as any other dev company. The last time we got some milestone updates was ages ago, but I dont mind it as long as they take the time for more productive tasks^^. Or maybe some stuff was leaked so they stopped showing us stuff, idk. I hope SD got tons of content ready to release it bits after bits, because we didnt see anything new in like over half a year??? The last new thing was wall jump. But I remain patient :slight_smile:

I dont think the Darwinian patch isnt the problem. It is just a lot less change than some of us expected it. This patch is probably still better than previous ones, but some problems still remain. I think the biggest problem the game has is the fact that it gets a spamfest. Dont want to start this discussion all over again since we talk about it like all the time^^

The game available for us is still barely naked. Augments are in a very early phase; (some sort of augment builder will come), the whole lvling up cycle needs to be adjusted; account lvl is fine, but I find it too fast for char lvl: it takes approx. one match to lvl up (1-3). And all the features which define game as a service are still missing (like friendslist). I do hope all of this stuff will hit when open beta starts.

I can tell you what DB doesnt need from CSGO, or LoL: the community. Both games are fun but ppl are a pain in the ass. I dont think there isnt a lot more we havent already considered. I hope we see in future some sort of Group/Team/clan features, setting up matches, group chat, ways to communicate within a group etc. There are a lot of casual clans. A mechanism that would encourage building casual teams/gathers and stuff, for farming boxes or goodies.

I dont think you cant rly compare toxikk with DB because it is a pretty basic shooter. Overwatch has for the most part the same game concept. Ppl who dont already know DB, but saw Overwatchs somewhere and will start playing it in closed alpha or beta, they probably begin to take overwatch as a model when they compare it to DB. Whether its a good thing or not, cant tell but Im afraid that ppl are going to call DB copied Overwatch^^
For Example LoL and Dota; LoL players dont like Dota 2 and the other way around. I dont know why but im sure part of the problem is: “Play first, like first”. But I bet in the end, Overwatch is going to be a spamfest too.

(PixelTwitch) #4

In Splash Damages defence, we have been playing pretty much the exact same game for almost a year with the only additions I can see since I joined the game nearly 6 months ago being the long jump and loadout cards. Actually, since I joined more stuff has been removed then has been added. We are still suffering from a serious lack of polish and content. I think once we get the patch that has all the attachments, ton of new Mercs and a couple of polished maps we should start to see the big differences…

The problem is, right now, everything feels like its in a state of flux. I am by no means saying there is not a whole ton of stuff I really dislike about Dirty Bomb . Some things make me scratch my head and others I think are greatly lacking in depth and complexity. However, with polish and content I think it could be safe to say that Dirty Bomb is looking to be one of (if not) the best F2P shooters on the Market.

I do understand what you are saying though in your post, I too sometimes struggle to imagine a day that Dirty Bomb will be ready to launch. I am honestly at that point where if someone offered me 2-1 odds on everything I own, that the game would ever release. I am not sure I would take it… I do not think I am the only person to be thinking this way and its likely one of the biggest reasons for the long term players “giving up” on it.

Right now, all I want is for Dirty Bomb to be more accessible and friendly to lower skilled players… If that happens I would happily wait for 12 months more before we see the release.

(Silvanoshi) #5

To give you a bit of insight. From our point of view things are coming along pretty much as we expected them to, and that’s fine. When it comes to the Darwinian update, we came right out of the gate saying that it contained sweeping, unpolished, balancing changes. More often than not that’ll make for a less enjoyable experience. That’s fine. In this case we would rather release a buff/change update that goes too far and rein it in, rather than having to release many updates, none of which goes far enough. As far as balance goes, the next update will be the one that rains the changes to a level that plenty of people should be much happier with :).

A note about Dirty Bomb’s updates in general. While we have neat content and features in the pipeline, our update philosophy is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Rather than having one huge update that fulfils your wildest dreams (impossible!), we’ll continue to add and tweak new elements over multiple updates.

(spookify) #6

[QUOTE=Silvanoshi;516678]To give you a bit of insight. From our point of view things are coming along pretty much as we expected them to, and that’s fine. When it comes to the Darwinian update, we came right out of the gate saying that it contained sweeping, unpolished, balancing changes. More often than not that’ll make for a less enjoyable experience. That’s fine. In this case we would rather release a buff/change update that goes too far and rein it in, rather than having to release many updates, none of which goes far enough. As far as balance goes, the next update will be the one that rains the changes to a level that plenty of people should be much happier with :).

A note about Dirty Bomb’s updates in general. While we have neat content and features in the pipeline, our update philosophy is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Rather than having one huge update that fulfils your wildest dreams (impossible!), we’ll continue to add and tweak new elements over multiple updates.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reinsurance Silvanoshi. Its hard as gamers especially being around as some of us have and also people like pix who have come in around a year ago to see context actually being taken out of the game…

I think a lot of us tried to take this Darwin patch with a grain of salt but I was actually overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that actually did go into this patch. This was actually a pretty big patch and I am sure smooth had been working on it for a long time. When the balance stats actually came out I had no idea where to start and basically gave up on extensive balance feedback, however what was nice is that many smaller threads were opened about specific issues and a lot of the points got talked about in the smaller threads.

So, Silvanoshi what is this big news next week?

Is it the balance patch you speak of? Is this the patch that bring match making back? Maybe some new mercs back? Map Tweaks? New “The Dirt #2”?

[QUOTE=Silvanoshi;516678]As far as balance goes, the next update will be the one that rains the changes to a level that plenty of people should be much happier with :). [/QUOTE] Even me? :smiley:

In hindsight looking back at all the updates over the last two years you can sort of see a pattern to what SD is doing. Basically doing chunks of the game at a time and adding, removing and testing them… Right now we still have a bare-bones game and I hope in less then a year we will see everything come together. I have high expectations for this next patch… Not in the sense that it is going to complete the game and be super awesome but rather give us the tester some new things to test and try out rather then looking for bug and inevitability commenting about maps and many other things that take time to change. I hope we can give some great balance feedback this next patch and cross my fingers it is the match making patch “again” and we can focus on some 5v5 matches and give balance feedback based on that.

(BomBaKlaK) #7

Wait and see …

(Sun_Sheng) #8

Tbh, from my own position i’ve been debating the last couple of weeks whether to write a long ‘going away’ post, or an even longer ‘this is what the game needs’ post. The only thing stopping me is that I couldn’t be arsed because nobody listens to either. Since i’ve read this while i’m waiting for my food to digest before taking the dog for his walk, i’ll just throw a few thoughts here until he tells me he’s had enough and brings the lead.

With regards to the patch in itself, that doesn’t bother me too much. What does bother me much, is that the patch is a waste of time. The changes that need to be made aren’t the changes that are being implemented. Screwing things up with irrelevancies, isn’t worth the time worrying about it. They’ll change again. It’s not a finished product.

What needs to happen is a massive overhaul. Is that going to happen? No. Why? Because SD aren’t listening to anything except their own ideas and vision for the game. “Shaped By Gamers who agree with us” would be a better catch line. That’s fine and dandy and their prerogative, it’s their game after all. The way it is heading though, means that for anyone wanting to play an objective team based game in the sense of ET, RTCW, Assault Mode in UT, etc etc, this isn’t going to be the game for them. What DB is going to end up as, is something that is about as rewarding as Bombing Run in UT2K3. A team based game which is basically a deathmatch free for all where occasionally someone might try to do the objective, and everyone else shoots them and congratulates each other on their kdr at the end of the round.

I played two games last night. The first one we full held the first round because nobody on the attacking team did the objective. The second round I was on defence again because half the team quit so i tried to balance the sides and ended up sat there on a team with 3 snipers. As you can imagine, that ended pretty quick, and we didn’t win.

Next round we got rolled again because the snipers were still missing … i mean sniping. Then it comes to attack, I dropped 3 plants down in the first 5 minutes, all 3 defused with no opposition, and the response from the resident noobs on the team was that “it’s only a pub so who cares?”. I gave up. Great game SD.

The game needs to focus on teamplay and it’s been discussed many many times how that needs to be done, and SD ignores it. Medics that are worth a damn. Roles or classes that demand teamplay and don’t fall into “Everybody can so nobody does” syndrome. Maps that aren’t so badly designed that everything funnels into a single choke point filled with spam. Maps that give options with alternate spawn locations. Objectives that provide excitement and don’t fall into the “Stand here until someone shoots you …many times” category. The list goes on and on and the dog is asking for his walk again so no point in writing more that won’t be listened to.

At the moment the game is too focussed on little tricks and tweaks, debates about how to balance roles and counter abilities, without focussing on the fundamentals that desperately need to be addressed if thee game has any intention of becoming a team based game with a following. Forget debates about whether we need a counter to Arty. We’ve got one. It’s called shoot the bugger and don’t walk into that little area with a bright red line saying “arty incoming” in the middle of it.

Making this game noob friendly is just hammering another nail in the coffin. Make it enjoyable, and give people an incentive to learn, because all i’ve seen from the game in the time i’ve been playing it, is people such as myself arriving and thinking"Wow!!! What a great game!! This has got real potential!!" and then leaving it 6 months or a year later because that potential isn’t being realised. the reason for that in short, being that the fundamentals just aren’t there. It’s like seeing a Lamborghini on your drive, and then turning the key to find somebody stuck a Fiat 500 engine under the bonnet

Dog walking time :stroggtapir:

(spookify) #9

[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;516721]Tbh, from my own position i’ve been debating the last couple of weeks whether to write a long ‘going away’ post, or an even longer ‘this is what the game needs’ post. The only thing stopping me is that I couldn’t be arsed because nobody listens to either. Since i’ve read this while i’m waiting for my food to digest before taking the dog for his walk, i’ll just throw a few thoughts here until he tells me he’s had enough and brings the lead.

With regards to the patch in itself, that doesn’t bother me too much. What does bother me much, is that the patch is a waste of time. The changes that need to be made aren’t the changes that are being implemented. Screwing things up with irrelevancies, isn’t worth the time worrying about it. They’ll change again. It’s not a finished product.

What needs to happen is a massive overhaul. Is that going to happen? No. Why? Because SD aren’t listening to anything except their own ideas and vision for the game. “Shaped By Gamers who agree with us” would be a better catch line. That’s fine and dandy and their prerogative, it’s their game after all. The way it is heading though, means that for anyone wanting to play an objective team based game in the sense of ET, RTCW, Assault Mode in UT, etc etc, this isn’t going to be the game for them. What DB is going to end up as, is something that is about as rewarding as Bombing Run in UT2K3. A team based game which is basically a deathmatch free for all where occasionally someone might try to do the objective, and everyone else shoots them and congratulates each other on their kdr at the end of the round.

I played two games last night. The first one we full held the first round because nobody on the attacking team did the objective. The second round I was on defence again because half the team quit so i tried to balance the sides and ended up sat there on a team with 3 snipers. As you can imagine, that ended pretty quick, and we didn’t win.

Next round we got rolled again because the snipers were still missing … i mean sniping. Then it comes to attack, I dropped 3 plants down in the first 5 minutes, all 3 defused with no opposition, and the response from the resident noobs on the team was that “it’s only a pub so who cares?”. I gave up. Great game SD.

The game needs to focus on teamplay and it’s been discussed many many times how that needs to be done, and SD ignores it. Medics that are worth a damn. Roles or classes that demand teamplay and don’t fall into “Everybody can so nobody does” syndrome. Maps that aren’t so badly designed that everything funnels into a single choke point filled with spam. Maps that give options with alternate spawn locations. Objectives that provide excitement and don’t fall into the “Stand here until someone shoots you …many times” category. The list goes on and on and the dog is asking for his walk again so no point in writing more that won’t be listened to.

At the moment the game is too focussed on little tricks and tweaks, debates about how to balance roles and counter abilities, without focussing on the fundamentals that desperately need to be addressed if thee game has any intention of becoming a team based game with a following. Forget debates about whether we need a counter to Arty. We’ve got one. It’s called shoot the bugger and don’t walk into that little area with a bright red line saying “arty incoming” in the middle of it.

Making this game noob friendly is just hammering another nail in the coffin. Make it enjoyable, and give people an incentive to learn, because all i’ve seen from the game in the time i’ve been playing it, is people such as myself arriving and thinking"Wow!!! What a great game!! This has got real potential!!" and then leaving it 6 months or a year later because that potential isn’t being realised. the reason for that in short, being that the fundamentals just aren’t there. It’s like seeing a Lamborghini on your drive, and then turning the key to find somebody stuck a Fiat 500 engine under the bonnet

Dog walking time :stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

Stay clam and lets see if this news next week is what we have been waiting for… Or change our prospective. :smiley:

(Sun_Sheng) #10

aye … [QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;516687]Wait and see …[/QUOTE]

Lol, i’ll try but basically that’s what i’m doing, and I don’t hold out much hope. Unless the fundamentals are addressed it’s going to be another series of changes that might contribute in some way to the overall picture, but will still leave us with an unplayable game in terms of teamplay and being objective based.

At the moment, from what I see, there’s about a dozen or so players, including yourself, who are above the average and can turn a game. The match making or balancing is such that invariably it sticks them all on the same team and it’s game over before it starts. That wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for the fact that there is nothing whatsoever in the game, that obliges or provides an incentive for the newer or less skilled players to learn or adapt in some way so as to become useful. At the moment there has never been less reason to want to play a game. The game needs a patch to make it a co-operative team game. What we will likely get is something that balances the teams better (we listened), but ultimately just evens out the kdr.

The last update didn’t go too far, it just didn’t address anything that would make the game better in some way. Boosting mercs and increasing damage isn’t what the game needs. It needs spawn points, better objective types, a return to player’s inter-dependence, all sorts of things that the patch just completely ignored

I’ll shut up and try out that “Stay calm” advice. It just saddens and annoys me that a game with such potential, that so many people looked forward to, could turn out like this.

(montheponies) #11

+1 you must spread reputation etc etc …

Personally I believe the needs of the F2P model is behind a lot of the structural problems with the game.

(AssortedStuff) #12

Dirty Bomb, Overwatch and Toxikk although all FPSs they have each a different target audience.

(rookie1) #13

I was going to make a Big wall post but I decided to take a walk instead ,its more refreshing and …fun :wink:

(RasteRayzeR) #14

I have less worries while knowing a bit of what’s ahead. Patience.

(Glottis-3D) #15

so…you have knowledge about what’s ahead, and STILL have worries??
=)
or did i read it wrong? =)

(onYn) #16

Thank you very much. Quiet glad to read that.

(MrFunkyFunk) #17

Great posts Sun.
Sadly that’s what has already been said every X months by people who still cared about the game. Few are still around.

I admit I find it funny that the 2 stages communication made a comeback when some VIP threatened to quit (access to devs build, future plans etc) meanwhile the rest (other funders, later arrivals, etc) is still parked in the dark even after the numerous “PR revolutions!” we were told would be happening.

And now we have some of those, indirectly/involuntarily working for SD hype machine, throwing bits here & there to adress people concerns. I’m sorry I find some of it laughable.

See you around, maybe, for that “big patch that will revolutionize modern fps gaming as we know it” (/j).

(RasteRayzeR) #18

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;516735]so…you have knowledge about what’s ahead, and STILL have worries??
=)
or did i read it wrong? =)[/QUOTE]

You will see :wink:

(Sun_Sheng) #19

[QUOTE=rookie1;516728]I was going to make a Big wall post but I decided to take a walk instead ,its more refreshing and …fun :wink:
[/QUOTE]
Cuteness overload!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, with respect that’s another part of what’s wrong. If we are all under NDA then we should all know the same amount, and the amount I and others know is currently very little except what we see and hear on the forums and none of that is good.

If SD were to come along and say "don’t worry, we have plans to double the width of the maps, put in captura blé spawns that can affect tactics i:e not something like the forward spawn on Terminal that is pointless, and to bring back reliance on teamplay by doing X. …y…z, then that might go a little way to bringing back some confidence. Or at least give people an idea of when and after which patch to check back after they stop playing. I’m all for patience but I’m one of the lucky ones who have only been playing for 12 to 18 months and it currently feels like I’m waiting patiently for a train, and just starting to realise that the station was closed 10 years ago

Edit: to add for clarity; SD posting “we intend to bring back teamplay in the next patch” would be heading into political manifesto territory. There needs to be flesh on the bones.

(RasteRayzeR) #20

[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;516745]Well, with respect that’s another part of what’s wrong. If we are all under NDA then we should all know the same amount, and the amount I and others know is currently very little except what we see and hear on the forums and none of that is good.
[/QUOTE]

We don’t get much more, just a few things :smiley: It’s more that if they don’t tell us they wouldn’t tell anyone anyway.