Is Rhino at a Good Spot?

(Xenithos) #1

Recently in a thread complaining about Rhino Spam I’ve seen a few posts here and there that makes me think some of you guys truly believe that Rhino is too powerful now. (Which has rather more recently come around as a topic from what I can understand, despite his “buffs” coming out over two months ago.) I find this almost shocking compared to most of the older posts I remember about how people felt about him. However I would agree that when he is spammed against incompetent teams he is certainly a force to be reckoned with. I want to have a more accurate graph of what people actually think. The most recent changes to Rhino both directly and indirectly according to last 5 patch notes back to August 2017…

RHINO
Rhino was weakened by some of the changes in the last update and we wanted to re-address his position in the game. This change focuses on keeping players shooting for longer.
Minigun energy cost reduced by ~ 25%
Minigun max spread reduced by ~ 10%

Minigun headshot multiplier removed (Just before the most recent balance pass) I’d also like to point out that the last things they did to him before this was increased the amount of time it took for him to charge up his minigun, AND decreased the amount of time it took for him to reach max spread and overheating. All of which were nerfs.

AURA
We’ve fixed a bug that prevents the Potent Packs Augment from improving the Healing Station. To compensate for that, we’ve reduced the base healing rates so that with the Potent Packs the Healing Station heals at almost exactly the same rates as before.
Reduced base healing rate to 26hp/s (from 31hp/s)
Reduce base self-healing rate to 24hp/s (from 28hp/s)
Fixed bug where Potent Packs Augment didn’t improve Healing Station’s rate
Reduced Health Station HP per second from 26 to 23 (most recent balance pass)
(This is a buff to ALL players… Increased lifespan of dropped Health Packs or Ammo Packs to 35s (from 25s))

For those of you unaware - A direct hit with Javelin will kill him. A headshot with a Fel-IX when snitched will instantly kill him from full 200hp and I believe it instant gibs him too.

Try to take into account in your answers all of the different factors surrounding Rhino. Such as his place in pubs versus ranked, that he is a HUGE target, and rather obvious if he’s a winding or shooting his mini gun. Also remember that he can only use shotguns (which are weird atm) and has the slowest movement speed in DB.

(Xenithos) #2

I meant to post this yesterday. Saw this was still a draft in one of my many open tabs.

(Your worst knifemare.) #3

He’s OP in close range, useless at long range.

(Press E) #4

Honestly I just think he’s out of place in DB. Still impractical in comp because he’s very situational, still an absolute meme in the hands of noobs.
For some reason people don’t seem to notice that in addition to the recent buff, he’s been indirectly buffed too. With shotguns becoming sniper rifles, I’ve seen a lot of rhinos using them as less of a secondary now, which isn’t what I think rhino should be.

Personally, I like the idea of him being a complete walking tank that everyone has to work together to kill. But buffs to weapons like shotguns or explosives means he can be taken out pretty easily now.
Because of that, I think his health should be drastically increased to 250 or even higher, and his sensitivity lowered while wielding his minigun, similarly to what heavy melee attacks used to do.
Reduced spread is a good thing in a way, since now he has to actually aim at enemies instead of just pointing at a crowd and getting a kill. But I might also reduce his maximum range as well to avoid the problem with shotgun sniper rifles we have now.

Aura’s several recent nerfs, along with a lot of counters for the medstation, mean that it’s not actually a massive problem as long as your team knows what they’re doing. A few map areas could use improvement to better allow these counters, like the final objective of bridge, but I think aura is fine where she is. Any more nerfs to her and she risks losing her competitive edge.

(K1X455) #5

Replace his Anhuld with Blishlok

(Wulie) #6

I find the Damage he inflicts on short to mid range slightly too strong. Its damn often so much bullets that you dont even find time to get some grenades to his face before he just shredds you to bits… Would like a little less RoF on his minigun. Shotguns are fine.

(StIwY) #7

@Lord_Coctus said:
He’s OP in close range, useless at long range.

That is his role. A situational merc, viable only on close combat spots. Already useless con high skill matches = not OP. Besided he needs to be healed often to stay alive.

(GatoCommodore) #8

I like thunder more than Rhino but rhino is just good because infinite ammo

(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #9

Focus fire= Dead Rhino
Against disorganized pubs he’s… okay? Really just depends on the match.
In ranked he’s still outclassed by the other Assault mercs, even Thunder has a position similar to Redeye, where he works best with good communication. Rhino is just too easily deleted by too much stuff.
Maybe give him an ability similar to Orisa’s in Overwatch where she can reduce damage dealt to herself for a period of time. At the end of the day, his survivability is his biggest problem, but even if he gets an ability like that it still may not be enough.
Guess I should’ve put my vote in rework, but eh. Still don’t think he will ever be in a position where he can compete with Fragger and Nader.

(Xenithos) #10

To me, Rhino is pretty inefficient in organized settings. The moment the enemy team knows where the Rhino is he’ll be dead, and even with a team trying to support a Rhino, it doesn’t often end well. It also means his positioning becomes even MORE important because of his only utility really being surprise close range melts. Which would probably work as well or better from other people that can start with a frag or thunder bomb for the rest of the team to move in.

Now, in disorganized play, it depends on how dumb each side is. A Rhino without a medic is just not fun, though still okay. A rhino with a medic, that camps a different position every spawn wave ends up being a ferocious thing. I got a 6 kill minigun streak on the last objective of Vault by MYSELF. But then again, I’ve also done close to the same thing but with Jav and Stoker. I would honestly say Rhino is in a fine spot right now, but I’m not completely positive.

(Dysfnal) #11

In his current state he’s far too situational, and too slow.

Most importantly I think the speed penalty while spinning the barrel should be eliminated. This reduces the importance of nitro while also giving rhino more mobility. He’s also not compensating for recoil so it makes no sense that holding a button to spin the barrel slows him down. He should not be able to sprint or jump while spinning the barrel.

I think he needs a speed buff, not a large one, just get his speed closer to something that fits the game better.

After those changes I would wait to see their effect before changing damage or accuracy of the minigun

EDIT: I was thinking about a rework, but really this is what I decided was best

(Mr.Cuddlesworth) #12

Only time he’s op is when he has his Aura twins with him and you forgot to bring any explosive characters.

(StIwY) #13

Mediocre players thinks hes OP, because they just don’t know how to counter him, skilled players think otherwise. Since mediocre players are the majority of community = more blames and tears.

(Omen267901) #14

In my opinion, he’s overpowered in specific situations and said situations really only come up in pubs.

If your team doesn’t have a good sniper or a couple javelins/fraggers and you get put up against 3-4 Rhinos (especially with an aura) it can be a total nightmare. This generally won’t happen in ranked play, but in pubs it’s a serious possibility.

On an additional note, I think he’s a bit overpowered on underground, and a bit underpowered on other maps in msot cases.

(LifeupOmega) #15

Just feels out of place and as such feels incredibly boring/broken to fight. That you don’t even need to go for headshots is a major factor in this, as well as the fact that you can easily bounce around while revving to catch anyone off guard. All they did was ultimately make him a larger chore to deal with, and he can now safely sit with recons in the “jesus christ stop ruining the game for everyone else” category.

(Meerkats) #16

Nitros should be nerfed from 50% current ( iirc ) to 12.5% reduction. This will do two things: make Nitros less of a must have perk and reduce Rhino’s offensive effectiveness.

Rhino is supposed to be a defensive bulwark, and when playing Rhino, he should require a complementary team composition to provide support. Right now, with his fast spin up time through Nitros, he can be a legitimate offensive threat with minimal support.

If Rhino is to get any improvements to his speed, whether reducing movement penalty while spinning up / firing or a straight movement speed buff, he should receive an accompanying HP nerf.

(Sytry) #17

@Omen267901 said:
In my opinion, he’s overpowered in specific situations and said situations really only come up in pubs.

If your team doesn’t have a good sniper or a couple javelins/fraggers and you get put up against 3-4 Rhinos (especially with an aura) it can be a total nightmare. This generally won’t happen in ranked play, but in pubs it’s a serious possibility.

On an additional note, I think he’s a bit overpowered on underground, and a bit underpowered on other maps in msot cases.

Rhino problem is the ability like “unique cold or nitros” camping in maps like underground, terminal, castle and bridge in defense has great advantage.

(TheStrangerous) #18

Clearly they were inspired by TF2 heavy.
BAD IDEA!

If you wanted a PROPER heavy tank class, then look no further than these 2:

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(boerhae) #19

In my experience, Rhino is cool defensively, like on the barricade room on Bridge or the barrier room on Underground: he can hold that point really well if he’s got a good medic with him. However, he’s not versatile at all. He goes from extremely useful when the team (or part of the team he’s with) is in one spot, to almost worthless when the team is moving.

Honestly he’s so situational that it’s difficult to call him useful. He’ll dominate for a little while and then fade into obscurity, usually for a long amount of time, like until the objective moves (referring to SW), or the rest of the game. I personally hate to play him.

When I play Rhino, I usually only find myself doing well when the other team is pushing into a small area like a hallway or a small room. In that instance I play like a beast and am able to hold down the area effectively.
Then the objective will change, or the enemy team will try going a different route, and it takes too long to get there and the action is over. To combat this, I try to stay in one high-traffic area, and that’s fairly boring.

My opinion might be unpopular (people think he’s OP and I think he’s really rather weak over the course of the game), but there you go.

(Reddeadcap) #20

Imho his movement speed with the minigun’s barrels spooling be the same as when they’re not, the only downside with the minigun equip should be the lack of jumping.