Is larger spread needed?

(Smokeskin) #1

I had a game last night where 3 of the guys on the enemy team had so good aim they were nearly impossible to beat. They’d just headshot me to death every time, and it completely ruined any of the good things about Brink, like objectives and class teamwork. It degenerated to nothing but good aim deciding everything.

It was way worse than CoD. There you sometimes played against really good players that gave you a hard time, but I can’t remember ever getting owned like that. In CoD you could a least get a drop of them and take them out before they turned and killed you, but this seems impossible in Brink, where the lower damage means they have time to turn around and kill you.

It was rather ridiculous.

Perhaps lowering the accuracy further is needed?

(DarkangelUK) #2

It should be things like that that make you want to practice more and up your game. I’d rather I became a better player than the good players be handicapped and brought down to my level, what’s the point in that? You can’t punish someone for being good, or dedicating the time to become good.

If there’s some hidden statement here then just say it, do you think they were cheating or were you just dominated and it stung a little?

(darthmob) #3

Refer to DarkangelUK’s post for a more polite reply. :slight_smile:

(gooey79) #4

I Lol’d.

So one instance of players being good is enough to ask the question of ‘should the game be nerfed further’?

I made a demotivational poster back in the good old days of the ET:QW official forum. Seems fitting.

:slight_smile:

(morguen87) #5

Smokeskin has been a fan and a good forum contributor from the beginning. Even if you don’t agree with it, tell him why without image macros.

Smokeskin, what kind of weapons were they using?

Besides for a select few, headshots are basically random as it is, you just have to aim in the general direction.

(gooey79) #6

I did. But I’ll do it again. One instance of 3 good players is not a good enough reason to immediately question if the skill ceiling should be reduced further. Even on current volumes, that’s less than 1% of the playing population.

Learn to overcome instead of questioning if the game is easy enough.

The ‘macro’ was a little bit of nostalgic (for me) fun. Don’t take it too seriously.

(morguen87) #7

[QUOTE=*goo;359366]I did. But I’ll do it again. One instance of 3 good players is not a good enough reason to immediately question if the skill ceiling should be reduced further.

Learn to overcome instead of questioning if the game is easy enough.

The ‘macro’ was a little bit of nostalgic (for me) fun. Don’t take it too seriously.[/QUOTE]
No hard feelings on my end. And I agree with you.

Furthermore, I think accuracy should be better and at least the first bullet should go where the player is aiming. If smgs do little-to-no damage beyond close quarters it would help balance the game without the need for a huge accuracy nerf.

(kilL_888) #8

i also played against a very few players who really own me. they almost instantly killed me. and, yes, it was pretty frustrating.

but nerfing their guns is absolutely wrong. not only will it nerfe your gun too, no it adds even more luck to gunfights.

tighten the spread is the right direction, thats for sure.

as darkangel said, just practice more. get back to the fight, dont let it bring you down. thats the worst thing that can happen. if youre not even motivated anymore to kill them, then there is no chance you can actually do it. concentrate, pump some adrenaline (i mean the real adrenaline, no ingame :wink: ) and mow them down.

you will get a great feeling of success when you finally managed to kill them. this is one of the really good things about brink that gunfights, mostly, require some skill. and im so happy about that.

(tangoliber) #9

The first bullet or two at least should be true. After that, depending on the gun, there can be significant spread bloom. That way, accuracy and technique both become important.

(BMXer) #10

It doesn’t matter how much they nerf the weapons, the good shooter will still dominate a bad shooter. Adding tons of spread only evens the playing field because all the good shooters leave the game because its not fun to shoot.

(Smokeskin) #11

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;359359]It should be things like that that make you want to practice more and up your game. I’d rather I became a better player than the good players be handicapped and brought down to my level, what’s the point in that? You can’t punish someone for being good, or dedicating the time to become good.

If there’s some hidden statement here then just say it, do you think they were cheating or were you just dominated and it stung a little?[/QUOTE]

No hidden statement, I think they were just really good. They were also really nasty with grenade shooting and used cover well.

I’ll never get really good aim. Way back I played TFC at comp level, that takes a ****load of time and effort and I stil couldn’t hit nearly as well as most comp players. But I was awesome with conc jumps and cooking nades and coordinating with teammates and outwitting defenders, and that earned me a spot on some top teams.

Over 10 years later, I’m no where near that level and with work and 2 kids I don’t play thatmuch anymore, but I can still make Best Overall much of the time (especially if I’m trying, when going for winning rather than xp it happens less). I really like Brink because it is about other stuff than just aiming, which I’ll never be really good at. Sure, it caters to what I’m good at, so shoot me :slight_smile:

The spread in Brink allow me to have a decent chance against good players even face to face. But now it seems that godly players not just own me face to face, but even when I get the drop on them they have time to turn and kill me! The low damage and high spread that gives me a better chance in most matchups compared to CoD, which I find awesome, has the opposite effect at the very high end apparently.

Yeah, that stings. if the game I love turn out to degenerate into a game that is alone decided by who has better aim, that will make it suck worse than CoD. CoD team death match had more strategy than the game with those guys, it was only about trying to outaim them.

Maybe I’m just whining, but that game just felt nothing like Brink.

(FireWorks) #12

The sad thing with a small player base is that there are so few good ones left. Even my mediocre aim gets me called a cheater every 1-2 days. And then when the real veterans come out their holes at night I see no light and get downed in every gunfight I cant start with a nade.

It is experience and training we need. Turning every one else in a factual noob cant be the answer, sorry.

(Kendle) #13

Larger spread would simply drive away yet more players.

Personally I find it more frustrating when my bullets don’t hit what I point at (because of the spread) than I do other peoples bullets hitting me because they out-aim me. In fact if the spread were tighter I’d die happier knowing the other guy did out-aim me as opposed to firing someone near me and getting lucky.

The other thing about tighter spread is you get hit less by un-aimed bullets. The effect of this is that for everyone that now owns you there will be someone you can own because your aim is being more properly rewarded as well.

The game desparately needs smaller spread, not larger, and I say that as someone who also has pretty average aim (Smokeskin, I’ve played against you and I reckon we’re about the same level aim wise).

(BioSnark) #14

I’m not a good shot and being a couple floors from my wireless router makes it worse but Brink weapons are incredibly frustrating to shoot because, despite the vastly better net coding to etqw, they just won’t register a hit due to spread. Sorry to see this topic wasn’t meant as a joke. Automatics need less damage and spread.

(BomBaKlaK) #15

I think it gonna be larger and larger !! that’s help noobs to hit ? not sure !
that’s for sure drive players away … 4 team who run in comp told me they just stop the game cause of the massive recoil and spread, that’s just kill the BRINK gun play … like plastic airsoftshooter in the wind, it’s just not possible that way ! remember ETQW or WolfET !!!

Dam so desapointed about this !

(TONSCHUH) #16

[QUOTE=Smokeskin;359381]No hidden statement, I think they were just really good. They were also really nasty with grenade shooting and used cover well.

I’ll never get really good aim. Way back I played TFC at comp level, that takes a ****load of time and effort and I stil couldn’t hit nearly as well as most comp players. But I was awesome with conc jumps and cooking nades and coordinating with teammates and outwitting defenders, and that earned me a spot on some top teams.

Over 10 years later, I’m no where near that level and with work and 2 kids I don’t play thatmuch anymore, but I can still make Best Overall much of the time (especially if I’m trying, when going for winning rather than xp it happens less). I really like Brink because it is about other stuff than just aiming, which I’ll never be really good at. Sure, it caters to what I’m good at, so shoot me :slight_smile:

The spread in Brink allow me to have a decent chance against good players even face to face. But now it seems that godly players not just own me face to face, but even when I get the drop on them they have time to turn and kill me! The low damage and high spread that gives me a better chance in most matchups compared to CoD, which I find awesome, has the opposite effect at the very high end apparently.

Yeah, that stings. if the game I love turn out to degenerate into a game that is alone decided by who has better aim, that will make it suck worse than CoD. CoD team death match had more strategy than the game with those guys, it was only about trying to outaim them.

Maybe I’m just whining, but that game just felt nothing like Brink.[/QUOTE]

… I’m not such a good player too (I reckon), but I think even that I play the “Stop-Watch”-Matches on “Hard”, I got within 4 (8) matches 302 kills and I still buff my mates etc. … it’s really about getting used to the game … have only short bursts and try to move not only straight … use the iron-sight … play with a gun which suits you and get the right abilities … I struggled plenty too, after I started playing the game, but I was determent enough to try to get better … if you reach a certain level it’s really plenty of fun … compare BRINK with Q3A and realize that you still have a chance as an average player against a better player … I know a guy who guns me down within a second in Q3A and that all the time … that is what I call frustrating … :slight_smile:

(BomBaKlaK) #17

So it’s a perfect definition of a NO SKILL GAME !
I prefer to lurn and get burst to understand how it works, instead of get burst cause of random hits from a guy who shoot your nuts and get a headshot. It’s like buy a lottery ticket and see what’s happen …

In Q3A / WolfET / ETQW weapon are accurate !!
if you want to get better you have to improve your skill.
BRINK compared to this 3 games is a very poor skilled game, that’s why we need a tighten spread, or a SDK to let player set a promod if SD don’t have time to work on.

This game can’t be compétitive with this settings ! All big teams leave the game one after the other cause of the same things : spread and recoil (big majority for the spread)

so what the futur of BRINK ? tighter or larger ? with player or solo ? compétition or Free to play like game ?
cause right now there is still a big problem with the BRINK gun play …

I stop using any rifle ! now I play only with Ritchie ! more skill needed and no spread ! :stuck_out_tongue:
I know some players here who like my double buffed ritchie headshot on the hip :stuck_out_tongue:

And for the moment SD dont walk in the right direction for me

(tokamak) #18

It’s the combination of relatively high headshot damage and low accuracy, this creates really random outcomes in battles. It takes a long time before someone dies unless you get lucky shots on the head, then people can instantly drop.

Exedore then said that this was a concious decision because when fights become a matter of probability rather than skill, teamplay becomes prevalent, the more people shooting at someone, the more chance they die by headshots. In other words individual potential is heavily neutered to favour groups. This to avoid COD gameplay where you’re better off on your own because every player had a good chance of fighting large groups.

What both games do wrong and what ETQW does right, is that fights should generally favour groups, especially when it’s about objectives, BUT individual players should still be able to waste multiple on their own if they can outsmart them. In ETQW groups are still a scary thing, however, one player in the right position with the right ideas can totally undercut them and ruin their day.

(BomBaKlaK) #19

teamplay becomes prevalent, the more people shooting at someone, the more chance they die by headshots. In other words individual potential is heavily neutered to favour groups. This to avoid COD gameplay where you’re better off on your own because every player had a good chance of fighting large groups.

if one player is able to fight a large group, I suppose a large group is able to fight one player !
nope ?

where is the deal ? look at wolf ET weapons are more powerfull, we can play with 24 people on maps smaller than the BRINK ones, and the game is much more balanced … in BRINK with 16 players the game is unbalanced, weapon are inacurate, and you suppose to random kill cause the game is skillnerfed to be more newuserof5yearsold friendly.

It’s like driving aways players who look for skill ! ( about 80% of players I suppose )
And in this condition competition can’t be happy and can’t be alive …

Skilled game = Tighten spread !

(TONSCHUH) #20

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;359403]So it’s a perfect definition of a NO SKILL GAME !
I prefer to lurn and get burst to understand how it works, instead of get burst cause of random hits from a guy who shoot your nuts and get a headshot. It’s like buy a lottery ticket and see what’s happen …

In Q3A / WolfET / ETQW weapon are accurate !!
if you want to get better you have to improve your skill.
BRINK compared to this 3 games is a very poor skilled game, that’s why we need a tighten spread, or a SDK to let player set a promod if SD don’t have time to work on.

This game can’t be compétitive with this settings ! All big teams leave the game one after the other cause of the same things : spread and recoil (big majority for the spread)

so what the futur of BRINK ? tighter or larger ? with player or solo ? compétition or Free to play like game ?
cause right now there is still a big problem with the BRINK gun play …

I stop using any rifle ! now I play only with Ritchie ! more skill needed and no spread ! :stuck_out_tongue:
I know some players here who like my double buffed ritchie headshot on the hip :stuck_out_tongue:

And for the moment SD dont walk in the right direction for me[/QUOTE]

… I would say tighter spread not larger, but I think to make the game to a “one-hit-kill”-game would kill the low-skilled player base … it’s not all about competition / clans … would be ok, if we would be able to change some settings on our own, then we could have Q3A-like matches in competitions and “normal” games for the rest … if you make BRINK like Q3A as standard, then everyone with a bad ping would be always disadvantaged … maybe we should have this “one-hit-kill”-option only for LAN’s …

… the movement speed of our characters / the game is far to slow for a game-play like Q3A … if you want to have it like this, then we would min need an option to disable the re-load animations and / or custom settings for the re-load time …

… the game looks good, but is far too slow for such a kind of game-play …

… even that I call myself only “average”, I still would be not able to play like a n00b and empty a whole mag in one long burst with pointing only roughly in one direction and not being killed, because even with this random spread I will not be able to gun down an incoming wave …

… it took me still some effort to reach this kind of skill-level and I’m determent to get even better … knowing the maps helps a lot too … you can’t play like Rambo and only run straight towards an incoming wave with a permanent burst … doesn’t work this way at all …

… maybe we should be able to change the amount of thrown grenades … like each team can throw only x grenades in x period of time … that would make gun-aiming-skills more important too … :slight_smile: