Is it just me, or does the game seem a bit spammy?

(watsyurdeal) #1

Probably just me, but lately when I deal with Arty’s and Fletchers I feel like I get killed primarily by their abilities more than anything.

And the reason this urks me is because they nerfed Fragger by giving him one nade, to make him more skill indexed by rewarding those who can place their nades more carefully, more nades on average per minute. I wonder why they don’t do the same for other mercs, Arty’s ability could be toned down to one strike and it has a continuous barrage of shells in that one spot. Or Fletcher, one Sticky every 10 seconds or so, but it gets buffed to where it’s possible to kill anyone with 120 hp with a successful stick. Proxy’s Mines can get changed as well but I honestly would not know how, I think in her case a more reasonable form of counter play would be best, like being able to crouch walk around the mines and not detonate them.

I don’t know why but lately it feels like there’s just a lot of spam and not a lot of gunfights, which is the primary reason I love this game so much. The shooting is just so damn fun.

(Eox) #2

Arty spammy ? Well, that’s brand new.

Also if you have a grudge about spamming overall, why don’t you have a grudge against Nader ?

(watsyurdeal) #3

Because that’s her job, that’s the only thing that gives her relevance to Fragger. Though even her I feel like 5 nades was a bit much, 4 with 7.5 second cooldown would be fine imo.

(Cappe) #4

As a mainly Arty player, Arty’s ability can be somewhat spammy but to get good strikes you need good knowledge of the maps and get the timing and placement right.
IMHO fletcher is way spammier than Arty, now that he’s on free rotation you see stickies everywhere and get instakilled most of the time.

(Eox) #5

So if it’s right for Nader, why isn’t it right for Fletcher ? Or even Arty ? Your change to the stickybomb (if I understand well) would just turn him into some kind of awkward Fragger with a triggerable grenade, and probably made the trap based playstyle even more unrewarding. Fletcher is supposed to be extremely versatile, and that versatility comes from the numerous yet weaker explosives he gets. You can use them as traps or directly throw them : that’s his trademark.

Unless you are just talking about a cooldown nerf, in that case I have no arguments against that and I probably wouldn’t mind it, though I’d just be against that idea on principle : I do think that Fletcher does not need a nerf. Also, in that case, the 20 damage buff for stuck stickies is not needed : stickies are good enough like that.

(Dawnlazy) #6

The only real problem I have is with Fletcher, buff Blishlock a tiny bit more and rework shotguns to make them not so crazy from close up but useless from range (Ahnuhld is in my opinion pretty close to being competitively viable yet not OP), but put an end to the retarded bunnyhopping airbust rocket playstyle he encourages. Add jumping inaccuracy to throws OR make stickies only able to activate once they get stuck onto something OR reduce splash damage radius but increase damage at the core area like they did with Fragger.

(vdll) #7

You talk about jumping and spamming. which reminds me of how jump-spammy this game is. I know wall jumps are core feature of DB, but 150 kg Fragger hopping like a balerina is just silly.
One wall jump is fine by me, but double wall jump is too much, not to mention insufficient penalties for multiple regular jumps. It’s not that hard to counter, it’s just… goofy, idk.

(Amerika) #8

[quote=“convincingMollusk;132477”]You talk about jumping and spamming. which reminds me of how jump-spammy this game is. I know wall jumps are core feature of DB, but 150 kg Fragger hopping like a balerina is just silly.
One wall jump is fine by me, but double wall jump is too much, not to mention insufficient penalties for multiple regular jumps. It’s not that hard to counter, it’s just… goofy, idk.[/quote]

This isn’t a simulation game or anything like it. It has more in common with Q3 than CS or Arma etc. Goofy is fine and it’s welcome considering just how many “me to” sim games are out there and how few games like DB there are.

(vdll) #9

Oh, I’m don’t imply more realism means more fun, on the contrary. I just don’t want DB to look ridiculous, if you know what I mean.

(darlingClaymore) #10

I played fletcher and well… FLETCHA, I saved around 3 teams from losing already

(Ballto) #11

the problem with fletcher is he is literally the only assault engineer

his ability is good both offensive, defensive, he has a good midrange of hp, great weapon choices, spammable bombs that are ALMOST nader tier spammy,

and is an engineer

he needs to just not be an engineer or his spammyness needs a tone down

(Amerika) #12

The game is kind of spammy these days but anybody who played it before the Steam closed beta knew that. It’s not even remotely close to as bad as it was back then though. I couldn’t stand the game pre-steam. Nader was insane with instant martyrdom that had a bigger explosion radius and was more powerful, her nades were more powerful and bigger explosive range, Fragger had 2 nades, bigger radius, and you could get a 20% increase to radius. Same with Skyhammer strikes. Fletcher was also pretty nuts due to his bombs being better. Oh, and this was back when explosives gibbed and it was before the nerf to all explosives where they would pass through bodies and still deal full damage.

Now that was spammy. So by those standards I don’t mind the game as much now. But I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the explosives go away since I prefer a game of aim vs. aim when possible.

(Eox) #13

[quote=“Amerika;132576”]The game is kind of spammy these days but anybody who played it before the Steam closed beta knew that. It’s not even remotely close to as bad as it was back then though. I couldn’t stand the game pre-steam. Nader was insane with instant martyrdom that had a bigger explosion radius and was more powerful, her nades were more powerful and bigger explosive range, Fragger had 2 nades, bigger radius, and you could get a 20% increase to radius. Same with Skyhammer strikes. Fletcher was also pretty nuts due to his bombs being better. Oh, and this was back when explosives gibbed and it was before the nerf to all explosives where they would pass through bodies and still deal full damage.

Now that was spammy. So by those standards I don’t mind the game as much now. But I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the explosives go away since I prefer a game of aim vs. aim when possible.[/quote]

I hope you are not implying that there’s no aim involved with explosive projectiles. Aiming skills does not only apply to hitscan weapons.

(vdll) #14

[quote=“Eox;132589”]

[quote=“Amerika;132576”]The game is kind of spammy these days but anybody who played it before the Steam closed beta knew that. It’s not even remotely close to as bad as it was back then though. I couldn’t stand the game pre-steam. Nader was insane with instant martyrdom that had a bigger explosion radius and was more powerful, her nades were more powerful and bigger explosive range, Fragger had 2 nades, bigger radius, and you could get a 20% increase to radius. Same with Skyhammer strikes. Fletcher was also pretty nuts due to his bombs being better. Oh, and this was back when explosives gibbed and it was before the nerf to all explosives where they would pass through bodies and still deal full damage.

Now that was spammy. So by those standards I don’t mind the game as much now. But I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the explosives go away since I prefer a game of aim vs. aim when possible.[/quote]

I hope you are not implying that there’s no aim involved with explosive projectiles. Aiming skills does not only apply to hitscan weapons.[/quote]

Oh, please. Don’t compare long-range head hunting with nade spam.

(Amerika) #15

[quote=“Eox;132589”]

[quote=“Amerika;132576”]The game is kind of spammy these days but anybody who played it before the Steam closed beta knew that. It’s not even remotely close to as bad as it was back then though. I couldn’t stand the game pre-steam. Nader was insane with instant martyrdom that had a bigger explosion radius and was more powerful, her nades were more powerful and bigger explosive range, Fragger had 2 nades, bigger radius, and you could get a 20% increase to radius. Same with Skyhammer strikes. Fletcher was also pretty nuts due to his bombs being better. Oh, and this was back when explosives gibbed and it was before the nerf to all explosives where they would pass through bodies and still deal full damage.

Now that was spammy. So by those standards I don’t mind the game as much now. But I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the explosives go away since I prefer a game of aim vs. aim when possible.[/quote]

I hope you are not implying that there’s no aim involved with explosive projectiles. Aiming skills does not only apply to hitscan weapons.[/quote]

No. Just that when a game is full of explosions with many of the players simply playing because explosives gives them a higher chance at randomly killing somebody that a game suddenly become less about aim and more about being lucky that you aren’t in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

You have to aim stickies and naders grenades and fragger grenades and there is an art to it. But many who play on pub servers (and even in comp) mostly use them because they get more kills they wouldn’t have gotten straight up. You don’t usually randomly die to bullets or at least as often as you do to an errant not meant for you grenade. And when you have a server full of people playing explosives classes then it’s more like playing in a mine field and your personal skill starts to factor in a bit less than luck in my experience.

(XavienX) #16

I feel like Arty should be more spammy. I know he got a AOE buff to his ability and reduced it down to 2 max instead of 5 max but it’s still slightly hard to handle it.

(Naonna) #17

The only issue i have with Fletcher-spam is the fact it does so much damage per nade. I’d be fine if they reduced the damage to 70 per sticky, but let him put out five or six. Also, he’s on free rotation as of this post. Fragger too.

(Mr-Penguin) #18

That’d just make him a shorter ranged Nader with slightly more powerful but gimped nades in terms of range, blast radius, and the need to manually detonate.

(Naonna) #19

He 1shots all but one of the medics and can destroy any deployable with 1 nade and a couple pistol shots. Very few characters have the reliability of Fletcher’s stickies. While it makes him unique in that way, there’s very little one can do as a medium or light class to avoid getting stuck given the rate at which he regenerates them.

A very good Fletcher can decimate a team with stickies alone, if their choice of mercs is not on the heavier side. While the devs has stated numerous times that they don’t want this game to be a rock-paper-scissors match up, it still is evident that any light class attempting to combat a Fletcher (even another Fletcher) can still die instantly to something so easily thrown out and spammed.

I admit I’m a little biased and salty, but even playing as Fletcher, his damage output is a little on the ridiculous side. If there was a chance to react after a first sticky, there would be some counter play. As any <100 hp merc though, there isn’t any. Even on a non-direct stick, they do enough damage that a long-range Ahnald shot would finish the job just through a bit of chip-damage - and that’s assuming the combating merc was full-hp when they arrived to the fight.

On free rotation with Fraggers and Fletchers throwing out cooked nades and air-burst stickies, it can be difficult to make any headway. A common argument would be to ‘not play a squishy class.’ This goes against the rock-paper-scissors issue from before.

My idea for the slightly less damage on stickies is to help mitigate the problem of instantly destroying medics with 1 bomb on a 20 second cool down.

(Drac0rion) #20

About spammy abilities?
I’d only like a little longer cooldown on Fletcher stickys and Nader nades. Comparing those two, Nader’s ability is at least a little more situational while Fletcher runs around with stickys out most of the game.
Stickys are just a little too reliable at the moment, in my opinion. As long as you have 3 sticky bombs, you can most likely finish a 1vs1 without even pulling out your guns.

He can already pick the stickys up and increasing arming time would ruin the ability, just increase the cooldown to tone down the spamming and actually force him to use guns maybe?