Invincibility when reviving needs changing

(Shinigami) #41

My penalty? What if i run into a group of two or three players? I dont have the time to shoot dead the person laying down. SPECIALLY considering how it literally takes more bullets to kill a downed enemy than a dead one. And even worse, sometimes i start shooting at them mid res. Turns out I didnt kill them. So now I have an empty magazine and an invincible opponent. :rolleyes:

(DarkangelUK) #42

Luck of the draw dude, do you think the game should be fair towards your personal situation every time you play? If they’re getting up, you now know they’re invincible during the animation, so you have no excuse for emptying a clip at that point. Mid-rez the guy is stuck in the same place and you have your reticle pointed right at his head, you’re already at an advantage. But please, think of more silly scenarios to help justify your opinion. “What if” there aren’t 3 players there, you down a player and stand there watching him self res and you finish him off again because you knew he was invincible? It’s up to you to adapt to the situation, not the game to hold your hand so you don’t get upset because the cards didn’t play in your favour.

And if you run into 3 guys and you’re concentrating on the downed guy? You’re doing it wrong. I hate to say this dude, but learn to play… this isn’t a new mechanic at all. Granted a heads-up would’ve been nice rather guessing it was there, too much assumption on SD’s part people would just know this… but well… now you know, adjust.

(De|f|c) #43

exactly, if you’re in a firefight with two people, you’re not going to start firing at the guy on the floor, you’re going to try and take down the two people that can drop you in a split-second.

By this time you’ve either emptied your clip into the two original guys and have to spend time reloading/swapping weapon whilst the now revived guy pummels you or the other guys are still up and you’re now contending with 3.

I don’t see why players who became downed should get an advantage in the first place. If they’re half way through reviving and get killed as they’re getting up then tough cookie, shouldn’t have gone down in the first place - or should have saved your syringe, don’t punish the players who are still standing.

(DarkangelUK) #44

I suppose if you had some backup from your team and not going Rambo you would be fine, you know, the way the enemy were grouped and playing as a team… and therefore all survived an encounter with the enemy.

(De|f|c) #45

^
Silly statement. There’s plenty of times where a team is split in the real game, never mind your ideals. It’s inevitable that you’re often going to be on your own or with only one team mate at certain times.

Regardless, there is absolutely no reason why a downed player should be rewarded for going down in the first place.

(DarkangelUK) #46

Again, you want the game to hold your hand every step of the way? Where exactly is the reward in being left in the same spot unable to move and being a sitting duck? The medic got his revive syringe to the downed player and the player got the time to use it… are you blaming the game for that?

(Humate) #47

The penalty for your team not gibbing players, is that those players can be revived. The nature of this particular revive system allows players to use it tactically, by choosing the appropriate moment to get the drop on you. In say ET or ETQW this is not the case, because the medic prompts the revive.

If you are taking on 2 players and a medic is incapped in the background with self revive, you are most likely are going to get taken out by the medic. If you go to gib the incapped medic first with bullets, you run the risk of being caught out without much ammo by the 2 players. If you opt to melee gib, you run the risk that they revive themselves before it, and you lose peripheral vision on the other 2 players.

Doesn’t that sound like fun? Interesting maybe, different yes, fun no.

(De|f|c) #48

Surely downed players getting invincibility is more ‘care bear’ than any other point being argued here?

“oh you got shot? don’t worry have a syringe and a bit of invincibility for getting yourself killed so you can unfairly get the jump on your killer now your team mates are here”

Either way, you’re not giving any rational reason why a player who got downed should be rewarded with invincibility. If they get shot during their stand up animation then tough luck. Their opponents shouldn’t be punished for a situation out of their hands thanks to a skewed game mechanic.

(DarkangelUK) #49

You mean something beyond TDM with objectives? Isn’t that the whole appeal in the 1st place? Interesting maybe, different no… did you miss the part about the previous games?

[QUOTE=De|f|c;335125]Surely downed players getting invincibility is more ‘care bear’ than any other point being argued here?

“oh you got shot? don’t worry have a syringe and a bit of invincibility for getting yourself killed so you can unfairly get the jump on your kiler now your team mates are here”

Either way, you’re not giving any rational reason why a player who got downed should be rewarded with invincibility. If they get shot during their stand up animation then tough luck. Their opponents shouldn’t be punished for a situation out of their hands thanks to a skewed game mechanic.[/QUOTE]
You’ve not giving me a reason beyond “it’s not fair”. Removing that causes doubt to the medic, doubt to the player and doubt to the mechanic of reviving itself. Who wants to attempt to get up when you’re gonna get ganked straight away? Why risk missing the respawn cut off? Why risk attempting to revive a team mate and lose a pip when he’s just going down again? It’ll turn into run, die, rinse and repeat more than it already is… is this your way of getting TDM into Brink?

(Humate) #50

The rational reason is that the player can be camped, and players wouldn’t opt to revive themselves knowing they didnt have the invincibility.

(wolfnemesis75) #51

[QUOTE=De|f|c;335125]Surely downed players getting invincibility is more ‘care bear’ than any other point being argued here?

“oh you got shot? don’t worry have a syringe and a bit of invincibility for getting yourself killed so you can unfairly get the jump on your killer now your team mates are here”

Either way, you’re not giving any rational reason why a player who got downed should be rewarded with invincibility. If they get shot during their stand up animation then tough luck. Their opponents shouldn’t be punished for a situation out of their hands thanks to a skewed game mechanic.[/QUOTE]

Basically, it allows for a player who revives a chance to take cover, and a reason to wait for a revive. Honestly, players are bullet sponges and you take a chance when leaving enemy down. You can finish them off with a curbstomp before they revive. It promotes teamwork simply. This game is not about quick or oneshot kills, regardless.

(felismenari) #52

Agreed. If there was no invincibility window, then it would be too easy for a medic to spend a supply pip trying to revive someone only to have it wasted. It’s a necessity for the sake of balance. As I’ve said before, the real problem is not having a good indication as to when the invincibility is in effect.

(Humate) #53

Just a wild guess as to why there isnt an indicator… it makes it easier to camp an incapped player, when you know exactly when they are open to damage.

(wolfnemesis75) #54

Also… the game really forces you NOT to camp enemy when they are down. Many times it makes sense to just move on, set up turrets, grab hold of key locations/command posts, etc. (Downed enemy are essentially out of the fight) Obviously on a map like Terminal, the enemy could be down at your feet, but in this instance, you should be curbstomping them so you can again return to setting up a structured defense. On offense, moving on rather than wasting time crossing over to downed enemy, is also what the game seeks to promote design-wise. Never staying still. By Removing invincibility, now you can camp downed enemies. Camping=headache gameplay.

(Shinigami) #55

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;335111]Luck of the draw dude, do you think the game should be fair towards your personal situation every time you play? If they’re getting up, you now know they’re invincible during the animation, so you have no excuse for emptying a clip at that point. Mid-rez the guy is stuck in the same place and you have your reticle pointed right at his head, you’re already at an advantage. But please, think of more silly scenarios to help justify your opinion. “What if” there aren’t 3 players there, you down a player and stand there watching him self res and you finish him off again because you knew he was invincible? It’s up to you to adapt to the situation, not the game to hold your hand so you don’t get upset because the cards didn’t play in your favour.

And if you run into 3 guys and you’re concentrating on the downed guy? You’re doing it wrong. I hate to say this dude, but learn to play… this isn’t a new mechanic at all. Granted a heads-up would’ve been nice rather guessing it was there, too much assumption on SD’s part people would just know this… but well… now you know, adjust.[/QUOTE]

You seriously need to get off of your high horse. Specially when you are so obviously misinformed. Enemies arent invincible when the animation to stand up starts. I have killed SEVERAL enemies while they are standing up. The invincibility kicks in AFTER the player stands up. Meaning you have an enemy who is invincible AND capable of shooting. THIS is the advantage the other dude was mentioning. you down an enemy and yet because a medic revives them they get an extremely unfair advantage.

And how is 3 on 1 a silly scenario? Have you never gone behind enemy lines as an operative?

(DarkangelUK) #56

What you’re stating is that the game is in fact broken and NOT working as intended then… care to gather proof and report it? As i’ve certainly not had that experience. You need to get on a high horse and use some bloody common sense… at what point do you think that would be by design? Invin should be from injection to standing, removed when in motion and shooting… common sense.

As for silly scenario, expecting to go 3v1 and come out unscathed was the silly part… the other silly part was caring about the downed player when there’s 2 more shooting at you.

(Shinigami) #57

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;335164]What you’re stating is that the game is in fact broken and NOT working as intended then… care to gather proof and report it? As i’ve certainly not had that experience. You need to get on a high horse and use some bloody common sense… at what point do you think that would be by design? Invin should be from injection to standing, removed when in motion and shooting… common sense.

As for silly scenario, expecting to go 3v1 and come out unscathed was the silly part… the other silly part was caring about the downed player when there’s 2 more shooting at you.[/QUOTE]

And now you are telling me that im not using common sense? you have serious attitude problems. Besides, YOU are the one that has been defending the defective system this whole time. I not once said that it was intented to be that way by design. As a matter of fact, I have been saying this whole time that the system needs to be changed.

Bottom line, you were wrong and I was right.

(DarkangelUK) #58

Proof… get it, come back. I’ve not experienced this, and died many times as soon as i’ve been rez’d. Once you’ve proved something instead of crying, then you can be right… until then you’re someone with an accusation and that’s it.

In fact, I just read all of the posts again, and not one person mentions being able to shoot while invincible until you’ve just mentioned it now… not even you. Are we having a little thread in our head moment? the OP didn’t mention it, just the mechanic as intended, your posts don’t mention that, just the mechanic as intended… then out of the blue you say you can shoot when invincible. Right my ass, you changed your story midway through, but please feel free to quote the contrary or blatant statement to the fact.

(De|f|c) #59

The argument of people not no longer waiting for revives holds no water, as people usually get a revive given in the time it takes for the timer to count down, and at that point if one isn’t given, select to respawn.
The argument of medics not giving out revives in case of losing a pip is also misinformed, as you can kill people before they use the syringe thrown to them, or during the start of the animation.
The argument of ‘people will camp you’ is just ridiculous as people aren’t going to sit around waiting for you to use your syringe when they can just kill you before you use it.

Basically the invincibility is there in the time between half way to standing up and being stood up with their gun aimed at you ready to fire, giving them a ‘Get ready’ timeframe of easymode.

(Exedore) #60

That is either ping, or you’re trying to re-equip a weapon with a slow equip speed naturally (or potentially much worse with attachments).

With the fastest pistol equip, the window is minuscule between vulnerability and weapon up. It’s another risk/reward for the power of attachments.