Instagibs - Sniper Rifles & Explosives

(Chase) #101

As a Vassili player, learning that bolt-action rifles are not going to insta-gib is a major disappointment. We can all agree that sniping in Dirty Bomb require a high skill set and if we are going to take away what makes Vassili’s headshots special, I feel that that would be a terrible decision.

Players should be rewarded for making accurate headshots and not bodyshots (take away PDP-70 for dear god). Personally, I play Vassili when there are loads of medics on the other team because I know that my insta-gib headshots will be extremely beneficial to my team. If a Vassili is no longer able to insta-gib, players might as well avoid playing Vassili because in the long run, they would be able to kill more and impact the game more as other classes.

For dear God, I beg the devs to re-consider this decision because what makes Vassili so addictive is the fact that a player is rewarded so well for shooting accurately (insta-gibs on headshots). I personally feel that the devs have already done a great job balancing Vassili as the ROF of the bolt action rifles are very slow compared to sniper rifles in other games.

Honestly, the rewarding feeling you get with insta-gibs on headshots is the same as the frag nades. My opinion is that players should be rewarded for making accurate plays. If the devs end up removing both of the insta-gibs, medics would be incredibly incredibly strong and it’ll create a massive imbalance in terms of team composition. (Revives and all)

Lastly, I’d like to express my thanks to the Devs for always asking for our opinions. I’m sure that the entire DB community appreciates and is able to feel your love and commitment to the game.

(Amerika) #102

Yeah, the potential change would barely affect pubs at all as the same people (usually newer to the game) will still roll with Vassili regardless. But it will positively affect the competitive community…however it will somewhat weaken Vassili’s role on teams and makes him less likely to be chosen. Do you risk potentially lowering Vassili’s usefulness and chances of being used in competition or do you risk keeping the status quo and keep instagibs that will keep making a not small portion of the competitive playerbase unhappy.

Either way some people will be unhappy.

(Potato_Ladder) #103

Hah! That. ^ Right there.

I play medic almost every match, because 90% of the time no one else will, or I get like 6 Aura’s in my team at once… but even then, they forget the have defibs. Or a healing station. -sigh-[/quote]

and 95% of the time, your teammates won’t even thank you for being that only reliable medic in the team(in my case anyways)

Feel free to mess with instagib on Sniper Rifles but please do not touch explosive and hoping for gib threshold chart for mercs when the update’s in.

(Snakus) #104

I really like the bolt action changes, looking forward to them. Sometimes gibbing that downed merc can be frustrating when you can’t see their head.

(treacherousMonorail) #105
(Pecka) #106

Like so many comments about how snipping requires so much skill and so the insta gib is fine. Guys I am like mid skilled sniper and can still destroy publics… Add me on steam, let’s join some public server and you will tell me after how you felt about it :smiley: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197971235720/

(Drcipres) #107

This will make the pdp better than the botl actions, now that you cant insta gib with your skilled hands

(Faraleth) #108

@Chase While I do agree it somewhat “takes away what makes Vassili’s headshots special”, and it most definitely has a high ceiling, but the fact of the matter is that they are simply TOO effective and there isn’t really any direct counter to it. They slow down the game’s pace immensely when you are forced into a long respawn period.

I personally think keeping the “1 shot kill” on the headshots and just removing the instagib ability, will be fine, or at least implement it to test it (after all, this IS beta :stuck_out_tongue: ). The pay-off for a well timed headshot SHOULD be the 1-shot-to-kill, as opposed to simply wiping out your opponent beyond revive.

I guess my opinion’s a little biased, coming from a medic though :wink: but that’s just what I think. ^.^

(_retired_) #109

[quote=“Chase;94220”]As a Vassili player, learning that bolt-action rifles are not going to insta-gib is a major disappointment. We can all agree that sniping in Dirty Bomb require a high skill set and if we are going to take away what makes Vassili’s headshots special, I feel that that would be a terrible decision. [/quote]High skill set?
Not really…

I mean, since I don’t want to blow my own horn, let’s just say I was “decent” sniper in couple of other games. I play Vassili in DB now and then, and I would say that it’s really situation specific when sniping is hard compared it being, easy.
I probably could get pretty well with Vassili if I would spend more time on him (since there are other options) but I feel like I have done my sniping for this lifetime in other games.

Thing for me is that Vassili instagibs really negate the effect of the other teams’ teamwork in such a way that especially situation that would require teamwork, instead we have situation whether one opponent with specific merc can deliver instagib. Actually this would make medics more viable and maybe also necessary for pub play, let alone increase the importance of teamwork playing Vassili on your side (others might have to gib those players if sniper doesn’t have view of the victim). I especially like the fact that Vassili isn’t must to your team if other team has Vassili.

In medic role, one of the frustations since I don’t play Sparks is that Vassili can gib now engi pretty easily while he’s planting/repairing and as medic you also make yourself gibbed if engi gets killed in another way and you try to revive him.

[quote=“splashyFlipper;94269”]This will make the pdp better than the botl actions, now that you cant insta gib with your skilled hands[/quote]I wouldn’t say so if you look all the rifles after this instagib change. One kill headshot is still one kill headshot.

(Kndo) #110

Oh boy I can’t wait to see how OP playing Sparks will be after this…Like honestly it would be dumb not to use her after this.

(Chase) #111

[quote=“Faraleth;94274”]I personally think keeping the “1 shot kill” on the headshots and just removing the instagib ability, will be fine, or at least implement it to test it (after all, this IS beta :stuck_out_tongue: ). The pay-off for a well timed headshot SHOULD be the 1-shot-to-kill, as opposed to simply wiping out your opponent beyond revive.
[/quote]

Crap! I’m starting to get persuaded by you guys that insta-gibs with Vassili is horrible!
Although I do agree that insta-gibs are annoying, I think that the experience of headshotting someone a distance away only to see him get revived by a medic behind him will become extremely daunting for Vassili players. After all, most sniper kills are generally long-range.

A common situation I foresee in the future:

  • Enemy gets sniped in the head, gets drop to the floor
  • Medic revives downed player
  • Previously-downed player and Medic takes another route

Which in my opinion, makes Vassili less useful and doesn’t provide an incentive to playing Vassili over other mercs. But like you said, this is beta so we should experiment to see which is better. Because personally, only certain situations allow for Vassili players to prosper and on other times, playing another merc over Vassili would help your team more. I just do not wish to see one of my favorite mercs become phased out due to his inability to insta-gib.

Medics are already viable and necessary for pub play. I’ve been in so many games where auras and sparks on the other team completely shut-down a team’s offense. People often forget a sniper’s role - to take down the most important target. If the engineer that you shot with a headshot gets revived, wouldn’t you be frustrated as well? There are already multiple counters to Vassili: redeye, phantom, sparks, long-range rifle users like kira and arty.

I understand the community’s frustration with Vassili’s insta-gib but you’re taking away what makes Vassili special. The biggest problem that the devs have is balancing insta-gibs and medic revives. Reducing Vassili’s clip size or increasing the time you have to charge the defib to revive someone comes to mind particularly because revives are really really strong and there needs to be counters. (Vassili)

(Mr.Dubstab) #112

[quote=“fubar;94198”][quote=“Grave Knight;94068”][quote=“affableTricycle;93924”]Why are you asking for peoples’ thoughts? If you lot were paying ANY attention you would know that this is the one thing that almost the ENTIRE competitive community wants most.

Yes. Yes, everyone wants this.[/quote]
Everyone? I seriously doubt that. Especially considering how many people either disagree or dislike your comment. Think it might be a bit generous to even say half. I’d imagine there are plenty of people who don’t care either way.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s because the competitive community doesn’t hang around on this forum. Feel free to head over to reddit or the splashdamage forums at any time. [/quote]
-Giggle- I like how everyone of the competitive community is so “greedy”.

“EVERYONE WANTS THIS!”
“Nobody of the competitive community hangs around here…”

  1. Cobalt 3 competitive fanatic speaking: People do join here to talk about things. Not only pub people get their asses here.
  2. Don’t speak for “everyone”. Everyone has another opinion. Just post your opinion and let it be. It really bothers me if people talk for others who they don’t know…
(adeto) #113

Personally I am happy that after 6 months of the same complaints SD finally seems to be willing to at-least look at the instagib situation or atleast show that they are looking at it…

But here it comes, I think the proposed(tested) changes to me just feel like overcompensating instead of actually addressing the problem. I really don’t think instagibs themselves are an issue at all as long as they are limited in usage and don’t feel random. I think the majority of players feels that Vassili is the only merc where the instagib is actually an issue. All other mercs have way less impact because their instagibs are controlled by cooldowns. There are many ways to fix this issue by a lot of different things and the proposed change from SD for snipers instagibs isn’t a bad one, but why are we also applying this to explosives? This change literally feels like the half assed gibbing vs revive changes they made just because of Sparks being introduced instead of balancing Sparks(resulting in her still being unbalanced compared to other medics). Now they are changing instagibs across the board instead of balancing Vassili’s access to instagibs. The problem isn’t avoided, but it feels like there is a just misunderstanding on what the actual problems are at SD when it comes to some of these gameplay changes.

I’m the kind of player that deals with most things thrown at him, but the few issues I feel the game has when it comes to gameplay balance SD seems to completely miss the point. And when they finally agree that there is an issue it seems to get overcompensated massively.

(Zack) #114

If you’re going to take away instagib which is like 75% of the reason why Vas is even decent then at least give back the extra bullet that you guys took away. Now even with a headshot on a full health player it’s going to take 2 bullets so really kill someone which is really like 2 kills and a hit marker on the 3rd. I mean unless the point is to really end Vas as a merc then yeah that’ll work.

(Pecka) #115

[quote=“Mr.Dubstab;94316”]

  1. Cobalt 3 competitive fanatic speaking: People do join here to talk about things. Not only pub people get their asses here.
  2. Don’t speak for “everyone”. Everyone has another opinion. Just post your opinion and let it be. It really bothers me if people talk for others who they don’t know… [/quote]

Like what do you mean by number 1) , that you are like pro being cobalt three?

And number 2) means what? That Fubar is some random and because you are cobalt 3, he now should feel ashamed he dared to speak for competitive community?

You should do your research about who that guy is before making yourself look stupid.

(watsyurdeal) #116

I think I have a proposal…

So, first question I will ask, how is gib health calculated? And second, why not take a hint from TF2…ACTUALLY A LOT OF HINTS BUT WHATEVER (end rage).

The Sniper Rifle in that game has a charge function, so it takes 3.3 seconds to fully charge it up, this means it’s 150 damage headshots, will deal 450.

I am proposing something similar, have a focus meter for Vasilli. This focus meter means he waits for 3 seconds to charge up, at full charge he will instantly gib any enemy except a Rhino, and maybe Thunder and Fragger, on headshot.

This works great because of two major components here, the actual charge up time, and the fire rates of the Sniper Rifles. So it takes a long time to actually dish out those gibs, which is the primary reason WHY people are upset with Vasilli.

With this change it’s a lot harder to kill more than one person with a gib, and more so, the Vasilli in question HAS to make a tactical decision, who should he gib, the Medic, Fragger, Engineer? It adds a lot of depth and heightens the skill ceiling even further. AND it plays perfectly with his motion sensor, he throws it out, waits for it to pick up someone, BAM, gibbed.

(RyePanda) #117

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;94362”]I think I have a proposal…

So, first question I will ask, how is gib health calculated? And second, why not take a hint from TF2…ACTUALLY A LOT OF HINTS BUT WHATEVER (end rage).

The Sniper Rifle in that game has a charge function, so it takes 3.3 seconds to fully charge it up, this means it’s 150 damage headshots, will deal 450.

I am proposing something similar, have a focus meter for Vasilli. This focus meter means he waits for 3 seconds to charge up, at full charge he will instantly gib any enemy except a Rhino, and maybe Thunder and Fragger, on headshot.

This works great because of two major components here, the actual charge up time, and the fire rates of the Sniper Rifles. So it takes a long time to actually dish out those gibs, which is the primary reason WHY people are upset with Vasilli.

With this change it’s a lot harder to kill more than one person with a gib, and more so, the Vasilli in question HAS to make a tactical decision, who should he gib, the Medic, Fragger, Engineer? It adds a lot of depth and heightens the skill ceiling even further. AND it plays perfectly with his motion sensor, he throws it out, waits for it to pick up someone, BAM, gibbed.[/quote]

I wish there were more likes than one that I could give. This idea keeps him viable but makes him a little less frustrating too.

(Ardez1) #118

@Pecka Mr.Dubstab is right in that @fubar doesn’t speak for every competitive player. They may have a fairly similar way of thought, but that is partly because Subreddits tends to have a mob mentality.

And competitive isn’t just tournament competitive. It is also high level ranked.

Point is, everybody has their opinions and we need to respect each others opinions. If you have a disagreement with another player then discuss your difference of opinion.

However, each person should speak to their own opinion and not claim to hold the opinion of an entire group of players. I take what fubar says as his own beliefs and don’t presume that he would speak for everybody or even the entire competitive community.

I speak for all of the pubbers who eat nutella and banana sandwiches. They should make it so pistols insta-gib on headshots.

That statement doesn’t make my point more valid or less valid. It is in fact irrelevant to the rest of that quote. Even if I wasn’t outright lying about who I represented it doesn’t mean what I say is accepted by all of them or that it is a good idea.

So argue positions, not people. Please.

(adeto) #119

[quote=“Ardez;94374”]@Pecka Mr.Dubstab is right in that @fubar doesn’t speak for every competitive player. They may have a fairly similar way of thought, but that is partly because Subreddits tends to have a mob mentality.

And competitive isn’t just tournament competitive. It is also high level ranked.

Point is, everybody has their opinions and we need to respect each others opinions. If you have a disagreement with another player then discuss your difference of opinion.

However, each person should speak to their own opinion and not claim to hold the opinion of an entire group of players. I take what fubar says as his own beliefs and don’t presume that he would speak for everybody or even the entire competitive community.

I speak for all of the pubbers who eat nutella and banana sandwiches. They should make it so pistols insta-gib on headshots.

That statement doesn’t make my point more valid or less valid. It is in fact irrelevant to the rest of that quote. Even if I wasn’t outright lying about who I represented it doesn’t mean what I say is accepted by all of them or that it is a good idea.

So argue positions, not people. Please.[/quote]

Thing is though, if you keep looking at every opinion individually you will literally never get to a point to make a decision. @fubar is a good example of where the competitive community(atleast tournament and higher ranked MM players) agree with a big majority and have agreed for near half a year already on it. We even set up a competitive ‘input-group’ with selected players from the competitive scene to show that the suggest changes came from a group opposed to single opinions but that didn’t seem to matter either… It’s pretty frustrating that there it doesn’t matter which bend the competitive community lays itself in to get feedback across yet there is always some excuse as to why it’s ignored/disregarded.

(PixelPopper) #120

If the instagib is removed i think the spinning corpses need to be fixed before it is removed. Also maybe change how gibbing a downed player works.