Instagibs - Sniper Rifles & Explosives


(B_Montiel) #81

I’m pretty for intsa-gib mechanics rework.

For explosive, this will necessarily need cooldown tunings, as fragger/proxy/skyhammer/whoeverwithstrongexplosives will get a massive nerf hammer bump instantly. This is pretty easy job imo. But insta-gibs from explosive are not a big problem on their own, I’ve never saw someone complain about those as they’re quite hard to pull out. By the way, some (sky, arty) will still have insta-gib capabilities if you don’t rework the whole ability as it’s waves of explosions. So personally, I’d prefer to keep as they are right now.

For snipers, as I already explained in the last dev round-up, the biggest problem is the overall balance between snipers and the revivr. Currently, Sparks is a good pocket sniper who is able to counter vassili in plenty of situations. And she already surpasses red-eye by a good margin as the revivr is able to 1 hit to kill most of the mercs on headshot whereas semi-auto are only able to do it on 80/90 hp mercs. Remove insta-gibs from bolt action rifles and she’ll get even more space to shine. From my point of view, she’s too much a best of both worlds as she have one of the best sniping weapon of the game and the definite best reviving ability. And I’m not mentioning Aimee who had and will have no spot of usefulness in this context.

So, in a nutshell, I’m for insta-gib removal on snipers, but for me this is imperative to make this come with important balance rework.


(Alasdair) #82

SD’s clarification:

"The threshold is 50hp for most mercs. Players will get instagibbed if they are below 50hp from a headshot with the MoA, or 58hp with the Felix. This does gives a slight advantage to using the Felix. Both bolt actions will finish an incapped player in one shot. Airstrikes and Kira’s laser generally do so much overkill that they will still instagib.

Most incapped mercs have 100hp and the MoA does 150 damage with a headshot so the overkill will finish the merc at 50hp. Things like Arty’s barrage don’t do as much overkill so are less likely to instabgib. Fragger’s nade does 150, so the same rule applies to that. Nader’s nades do 90, so they can’t instagib, martyrdom currently does 200dmg, and Proxy’s mines do 150, so they can instagib."


(Supa) #83

This is what I was thinking. The fact that he can outline spot* enemies through walls isn’t enough for people? That is a pretty big advantage.


(jubilantBeam) #84

fragger grenade should just have a little smaller area of instagib, removing it … nope.
or remove instagib from grenades and give him 2

sniper headshots with a !cal .50! should be insta, removing the instagib from the usual semi-auto on the other hand wont hurt


(Alasdair) #85

Semi auto hasn’t had instagib for a while.


(ZGToRRent) #86

Dislike.

I really wonder why SD wants to remove snipers from competitive scene. Instagib is the only good feature on snipers, they can kill at least 1 enemy on spawn wave, I’m pretty sure medics will revive downed teammates via sniper shots before he will shot again.


(treacherousMonorail) #87

[quote=“B. Montiel;94130”]
For snipers, as I already…[/quote]

You do what you like Montiel, if they mess up Sparks i will quit.


(kopyright) #88

Would this apply to all sniper rifles? The non-semi rifle already has a really long reload delay and a possible headshot instakill is pretty much the only thing making that delay worthwhile. Having to wait and not doing any significant damage would make the rifle useless in my opinion.


(B_Montiel) #89

[quote=“treacherousMonorail;94149”][quote=“B. Montiel;94130”]
For snipers, as I already…[/quote]

You do what you like Montiel, if they mess up Sparks i will quit.[/quote]

The problem is that she’s going to be the best sniper overall and this can’t happen. She already has an edge with revivr : with a third of revivr’s charge you can 1 htk mercs with 120 hp on very long range. That’s abusive on its own for a merc that is not supposed to be a pure sniper. I’m not asking much, there’s pretty mcuh no damage drop off for the revivr and they might just increase a little it to reduce its long range usefulness.


(SirMurder) #90

[quote=“Faraleth;94088”]@"[Fear]Ace" the reason is, because it completely destroys the pace of the game. You’d also be completely dead from 10 shots of an SMG, or even a single headshot from a pistol - you don’t get that in DB though. It’s about gameplay balance, not “realism”. If you want that, I suggest playing something like CS:GO :wink:

I personally think it would be awesome to remove the insta-gib from the sniper rifles, because right now, Vassili is just over-powered in terms of his viability in competitive. If you can headshot and instagib an enemy, that’s 1/5 of the enemy team down INSTANTLY, without the chance to revive. He will still be powerful without it, just not an instant pick over the likes of Red-Eye. It would also make Red-Eye more viable/relevant. :)[/quote]

Yes yes i get your point about realism i (also) dont want it to be like lets just shoot some1 and then hes just dead and unrevivable coz that would mess up the game, then medics would be useless. and i like Dirty Bomb as it is but i think vassili will be useless when they remove the instagibs from his sniper rifles.


(watsyurdeal) #91

[quote=“B. Montiel;94159”][quote=“treacherousMonorail;94149”][quote=“B. Montiel;94130”]
For snipers, as I already…[/quote]

You do what you like Montiel, if they mess up Sparks i will quit.[/quote]

The problem is that she’s going to be the best sniper overall and this can’t happen. She already has an edge with revivr : with a third of revivr’s charge you can 1 htk mercs with 120 hp on very long range. That’s abusive on its own for a merc that is not supposed to be a pure sniper. I’m not asking much, there’s pretty mcuh no damage drop off for the revivr and they might just increase a little it to reduce its long range usefulness.[/quote]

Well, to be honest that’s kind of a problem with the maps and the game itself. Without gibbing Snipers and Recon in general don’t really do anything.

It’d be cool if Recon were a mix of Medic and something else (O HAI SPARKS) or Recon and Engineer Specialist (Oh hey…Phantom, how are you?).

Arguably so far the only one I’d say fits the mold is Red Eye, and he’s not even underpowered really imo, just the skill floor is pretty high considering everything else and the Grandeur and Dreiss, well, they aren’t where they should be.

Devs nerfed the Dreiss cause it was too good in skilled hands…but that’s kind of the point. Higher skill floor for higher results and rewards, it makes sense for it to be at least somewhat more powerful than the M4.

Honestly DPS doesn’t mean shit when most of the game is hipfire, I just want to be able to reliably hit a target the size of a head from one end of the street to another, even if it means the bloom per shot is bigger than Pamela Anderson’s %#$@#%^@.

[quote="[FeaR]Ace;94180"][quote=“Faraleth;94088”]@"[Fear]Ace" the reason is, because it completely destroys the pace of the game. You’d also be completely dead from 10 shots of an SMG, or even a single headshot from a pistol - you don’t get that in DB though. It’s about gameplay balance, not “realism”. If you want that, I suggest playing something like CS:GO :wink:

I personally think it would be awesome to remove the insta-gib from the sniper rifles, because right now, Vassili is just over-powered in terms of his viability in competitive. If you can headshot and instagib an enemy, that’s 1/5 of the enemy team down INSTANTLY, without the chance to revive. He will still be powerful without it, just not an instant pick over the likes of Red-Eye. It would also make Red-Eye more viable/relevant. :)[/quote]

Yes yes i get your point about realism i (also) dont want it to be like lets just shoot some1 and then hes just dead and unrevivable coz that would mess up the game, then medics would be useless. and i like Dirty Bomb as it is but i think vassili will be useless when they remove the instagibs from his sniper rifles. [/quote]

Then maybe the issue is that Recon doesn’t do enough to justify their existence…which is actually a damn good argument honestly. I mean look at Phantom, and look at Red Eye and how often he’s actually used even though he’s damn good merc.


(B_Montiel) #92

You’re quite on the spot. And to be honest, the only good recon ability currently is the heartbeat sensor. If I wanna use semi-auto sniper rifles, I’d probably choose a Vassili PDP loadout.

Nevertheless, I’m still thinking that Red-eye is underused mainly because Sparks does the same job better. Ok, you lose 40 hp between the two, but who care about infra-red goggles and human exhaust cloud when you can have revive from distance and one hit to kill on more mercs on the other side ?


(opicr0n) #93

Great idea with an good implementation. This will bring back variation and decision making to gameplay!


(watsyurdeal) #94

[quote=“B. Montiel;94190”]You’re quite on the spot. And to be honest, the only good recon ability currently is the heartbeat sensor. If I wanna use semi-auto sniper rifles, I’d probably choose a Vassili PDP loadout.

Nevertheless, I’m still thinking that Red-eye is underused mainly because Sparks does the same job better. Ok, you lose 40 hp between the two, but who care about infra-red goggles and human exhaust cloud when you can have revive from distance and one hit to kill on more mercs on the other side ?
[/quote]

Well…that kinda begs another question, should the Revivr deal damage???

I mean, she is a Medic after all, not a Sniper.

Also, why not fix the smoke clouds to hide enemies health? It’s hitscan, if you can draw a line and detect if it’s a hit, then you absolutely can draw a line, detect if it’s a hit through smoke, no health meter is shown.


(Grave_Knight) #95

If they do this kind of change than they really should raise the Felix’s headshot damage to 200. This way, the very least, they can one shot Rhino with a headshot. The other thing is maybe increase the gib damage with the Moa and Felix so it can gib a down player in one shot. This way they’ll be able to kill Rhino in three shots with the Moa (two the head, and one for the gib) and two shots with the Felix (one to the head and one for the gib).


(fubar) #96

[quote=“Grave Knight;94068”][quote=“affableTricycle;93924”]Why are you asking for peoples’ thoughts? If you lot were paying ANY attention you would know that this is the one thing that almost the ENTIRE competitive community wants most.

Yes. Yes, everyone wants this.[/quote]
Everyone? I seriously doubt that. Especially considering how many people either disagree or dislike your comment. Think it might be a bit generous to even say half. I’d imagine there are plenty of people who don’t care either way.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s because the competitive community doesn’t hang around on this forum. Feel free to head over to reddit or the splashdamage forums at any time.


(neverplayseriou) #97

@fubar facepalm, the entire community is not the competitive community…

The competitive community is probably smaller than the number of people just doing pubs…


(god1) #98

[quote=“sensitiveJellyfish;94202”]@fubar facepalm, the entire community is not the competitive community…

The competitive community is probably smaller than the number of people just doing pubs…[/quote]

These instagib changes would barely affect public matches where nobody plays medic to begin with.


(Fiktio) #99

[quote="[FeaR]Ace;94180"]
Yes yes i get your point about realism i (also) dont want it to be like lets just shoot some1 and then hes just dead and unrevivable coz that would mess up the game, then medics would be useless.[/quote]

I don’t know about you guys here, but when I play as a medic, I try to prevent the death of my team mates at the begin with.
I’m not doing my job only during those moments, when my team mates are rolling dead on the ground.

If we couldn’t revive players, yes, defibrillators would be useless, but being a medic definitely wouldn’t be useless.


(Faraleth) #100

Hah! That. ^ Right there.

I play medic almost every match, because 90% of the time no one else will, or I get like 6 Aura’s in my team at once… but even then, they forget the have defibs. Or a healing station. -sigh-