Initial Gut Feedback

(tokamak) #141

Ha yeah, the promod.

Ah no now I’m being unfair. ET vanilla is a fair example. It’s just that I really like ETQW or even higher spread. I thought ETQW promod completely raped the game.

(.Chris.) #142

It made the game more enjoyable for smaller team sizes and provided more options for both clients and server admins, what was so rapey?

(warbie) #143

I’ve had another quick bash and feel better equipped to chime in. There’s lots to like - mostly elements from RTCW/ET. It’s great being able to bind keys to items/nades again and that hip firing is viable (I don’t even have ironsights bound at the moment, although for the purposes of testing properly I’ll give that another go. Grudgingly!) Classes seem solid and it looks clean and nice. Objective based gameplay is present and correct. More than a few times I got that Wolf vibe while reviving people and defending objectives - something that has been sorely missed! The positivity in this forum and the posts from you guys at SD has been very encouraging.

Things I don’t like. It seems too quick to die - getting the drop on someone pretty much means a kill, which doesn’t promote the aggressive play I like. More than a few times I couldn’t tell where I was being shot from, which is something that frustrates the hell out of me in fps and is something that never happened in RTCW/ET (whether this is due to fire rates, map design, amount of hp, or a combination, I don’t know). Movement feels a little too pedestrian - strafing is sluggish and jumping too low. Despite the good stuff mentioned above, combined, these elements in their current state would be enough for me not to take up Dirty Bomb. Please don’t take that the wrong way - just being honest.

Other gripes are minor and cosmetic and at the risk of sounding churlish at this early stage I may as well list them while they’re fresh in the mind. I don’t like the guns sounds, they’re a bit weedy. I like guns that sound like rusty chainsaws spitting bullets. The hit icon that flashes up when you shoot people is annoying - the option to turn that off would be much appreciated. Some of the guns looks massive regardless of fov. The spawn now or later option is confusing and I have trouble finding the objective (although these last two are almost certainly down to user error!)

(tokamak) #144

Things I don’t like. It seems too quick to die - getting the drop on someone pretty much means a kill, which doesn’t promote the aggressive play I like. More than a few times I couldn’t tell where I was being shot from, which is something that frustrates the hell out of me in fps and is something that never happened in RTCW/ET (whether this is due to fire rates, map design, amount of hp, or a combination, I don’t know). Movement feels a little too pedestrian - strafing is sluggish and jumping too low.

In most games I like this but it does indeed clash with the rest of the mechanics in Dirty Bomb. Quick deaths in Rainbow 6 is great because players move slow and cautiously. It means that even with a 2 or 1 bullet kill you’re still going to have a long lasting shoot-outs because people cover so well.

In DB stuff the speed combined with the lethality just too often ends fights before you ever felt they began, whether you’re winning or not. It makes deaths feel undeserved and kills unsatisfying.

Brink was the opposite. It was relative slow movement plus low lethality. I guess SD got so traumatised with Brink’s feedback that they compensated on both sides.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if the game would have slower movement. I like that kind of gameplay but I’m positive most people here would protest (and I’ll let them have that because it isn’t really ET like after all) so the other option is lower lethality. Most voices here would like to see to have that come in the form of a lower fire rate which does seem the most elegant way to achieve lower lethality.

(Evil-Doer) #145

I’m a fan of faster…with slower lethality. That leads to having to have more “talent” and “skill” to get the job done. Also entices more team play; for simple fact you want to have more crossfires together to kill opponents faster. Which leads to incredible team play. BUT, enables the possibility of amazing things to happen with one player against 3 or 4 at a time. In my eyes that leads to excitement.

(tokamak) #146

More hand/eye coordination skill, less cerebral skill. Important distinction. I think the winning combination is to let you guys have your dance and shoot fest but add in enough strategic toys that enable players to out-think cool hand lukes in a fight.

ETQW got away with a lot of this dance stuff because there was so much else that could completely turn it irrelevant if it was done carelessly.

(.FROST.) #147

[QUOTE=tokamak;412425]More hand/eye coordination skill, less cerebral skill. Important distinction. I think the winning combination is to let you guys have your dance and shoot fest but add in enough strategic toys that enable players to out-think cool hand lukes in a fight.

ETQW got away with a lot of this dance stuff because there was so much else that could completely turn it irrelevant if it was done carelessly.[/QUOTE]

DB gives you a lot of options to outflank the enemy and shoot them cold from behind. It’s not the way gentlemens would do it, but there you got out-thinking. But having everyone crouching, outflanking and camping isn’t that much fun either. That’s what I liked so much about BRINK; you just knew where the action was and you saw almost everyone at once. There was outflanking of course, but most of the stuff was upfront. There was no window sniping, simply because there were no windows(at least not many).

I’m getting into DB, but it will take me a while since it’s so very different from BRINK(hit-damage, turrets, pre-set loadout, much more sniping, etc.) Artistically they haven’t strayed too much away from my beloved BRINK and that’s a huge “pro” for me, but I want my dancing back and the possibility to interrupt the reload animations(I’m not a huge fan of canned animations).

(Humate) #148

The one thing im feeling about the game atm, is the speed switch to pistol… and the range. I kind of prefer shooting with the pistols more than I do AR.

(ras) #149

Played a bit more tonight.

Please make it so player models don’t blend in so well with the environment. Also please make the team models more easily distinguishable.

It would be great if you could sprint while reloading. Maybe after the movement changes you’re making it won’t be so bad, but feeling like you’re stuck in quicksand while reloading is pretty awful. It makes you a free kill. This goes along with the clunky movement sentiment.

(INF3RN0) #150

How exactly do you plan to outwit someone with cerebral skill? Plant a mine and bait them in? A lot of cerebral skill comes into play when your judging your aiming ability, positioning, map awareness, etc- which directly correlates with the impact of shooting your gun at people. That’s much more cerebral than anything else I can think of.

(AKAMrSmiley) #151

Don’t want to go through the entire thread so I don’t know if any of this has been brought up. I think we need to get an option to turn auto-reload off. Hate it automatically trying to reload and being unable to do anything when reloading, having to switch to a side arm is already a disadvantage enough for not finding an appropriate time to reload. Turrets are too strong think I saw it get headshots too, disable turret headshots and reduce damage and / or speed. I understand that the trajectory for throwing knives are a little hard to adjust too but I think them being a close-medium range weapon with 1 hit kill potential is too strong for a class that is supposed to be weaker in closer quarters. I didn’t see too many flashbangs so I’m not a hundred percent certain but they seemed to hit even when I was several feet away looking away (though I was lagging pretty bad, not sure), and a friend said he was immune to his own flashes which I don’t think should be the case.

Edit: Oh and bring back medic paddle damage. <3

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #152

Another vote for different team skins. For some reason I just really have a hard time seeing players in general and definitely telling friend from foe. The other night I could not see stealth6 at all even though he was in the same spot three times in a row. I’m going to play with my video settings to see if that helps. The white haze everywhere and the green uniforms just aren’t doing it for me.

(tokamak) #153

I agree with this, but the more you allow players to turn unfavourable conditions favourable again by dancing around the less this positioning and map awareness starts to matter.

(INF3RN0) #154

Not necessarily. If that were true then teams establishing crossfires, picking defensive choke points, etc would never prevail. In reality there are tons of way to outsmart a player with more capable aim other than purposefully implementing specific crutch mechanics for people who “think” they are smarter. It’s just the same as SC APM. It may appear to be a non-cerebral mechanic, however games play out much differently due to the higher player actions and the strategy is still unchanged. Time to just start accepting an extra step in the skill curve simply because it is required to give the more capable player the upper hand, which a lot of people consider quite reasonable. The essence of the classic FPS is just you and a gun, a pair of legs, and a room to play in- best formula out there.

(.FROST.) #155

[QUOTE=ras;412499]Played a bit more tonight.

Please make it so player models don’t blend in so well with the environment. Also please make the team models more easily distinguishable.

It would be great if you could sprint while reloading. Maybe after the movement changes you’re making it won’t be so bad, but feeling like you’re stuck in quicksand while reloading is pretty awful. It makes you a free kill. This goes along with the clunky movement sentiment.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you’ll be able to buy(with real money, or XP) a “reload while sprinting” skill ;-), or faster reload in general.

(tokamak) #156

Now you’re having your cake and eat it. The more hand-eye coordination weighs the less strategy does. There really isn’t a way around it.

And the same goes for SC, the more micro matters, the less important macro gets and vice versa. And to keep talking in this analogy, I’m just terribly afraid that we’re going to end up with a game where it’s all about micro and macro is more novelty tacked on to it.

(INF3RN0) #157

[QUOTE=tokamak;412539]Now you’re having your cake and eat it. The more hand-eye coordination weighs the less strategy does. There really isn’t a way around it.

And the same goes for SC, the more micro matters, the less important macro gets and vice versa. And to keep talking in this analogy, I’m just terribly afraid that we’re going to end up with a game where it’s all about micro and macro is more novelty tacked on to it.[/QUOTE]

I think you have micro and macro mixed up lol… you still have yet to make yourself clear on what exactly you want to happen? All it seems is that you have a personal problem with high skilled weapon mechanics. Overall we are asking for the difficulty to kill to be higher anyway, which kind of puzzles me as to what your real intentions are if your against that. The only reason to dislike fast movement and low spread mechanics is that it’s too hard to master. I mean there’s a huge contradiction in your argument if your all about alternatives to ‘aim domination’. Better aim players have to work all the harder to hit a target, which in turn ends up making movement and positioning all the more important- not less. I just don’t know what else to say really, but as I’ve said before I think your a bit too caught up in your own views to see the bigger picture.

(Senethro) #158

Tbh toka I’ve not seen proof that you can jump the physical skill hurdle to get to the point where cerebral skills matter. The answer to micro or macro is usually BOTH! But you can get further with micro alone than macro alone. Also, camping corners and setting traps are an incredibly shallow level of cerebral skill. What I regarded as the actual stage a bit of thought was required was designing and choosing between team plays and successful communication in an organized match. Everything below that is just using a superficial level of folk psychology to be where and do what the opponent doesn’t expect.

(tokamak) #159

Micro is actually a very small part in professional Starcraft. If thousands of dollars are in the balance then minute movement and actions are way too risky. Instead the best players have confidence in their ability to out-multitask their opponent and start with building towards the long game from the get go.

And I feel the same about shooters. Dancing and aiming is not a decision in the same way distracting an entire team into chasing you because you’re threatening their forward spawn is. The feeling of seeing a complicated long therm plan carry out the way you wanted and win the match far outweighs any jittery shootout victory. In the end that’s what made ET so big. Finally players were able to construct plans, carry them out and adapt where needed. Finally there was a game that was more than setting broad roles for the capture the flag and then see where your mouse-aim would lead you.

Tbh toka I’ve not seen proof that you can jump the physical skill hurdle to get to the point where cerebral skills matter

Nor do I feel the need to qualify myself to that in the first place. I’ve had my shooter hay days but jumping that hoop would defeat the purpose about the emphasis on the cerebral aspect of the game.

(Senethro) #160

That’s a great goal but you’re arguing from the perspective of a solo pub player mistaking tactics for strategy.