This is just my expert opinion lol, but… basically the fall-off spread on most guns is quite fast on all hipfire/strafing meaning you usually end up winning most of your fights by making yourself the more evasive target. At the same time you end up using more bullets than you technically should really need even if your aiming perfectly. I am starting to prefer iron sights in a lot of situations now, besides very close/mid range situations. Yesterday I dropped 4 people exiting spawn with just one clip (possibly all headshots) because I iron sighted instead of hip firing. Basically what I am saying by this is the fact that you are able to kill more people in a shorter amount of time and with less ammo if you are in a position to camp at a moderate distance with iron sights. Another fact that supports why I find this to be very true is just that my performance on defense tends to always feel and be more consistent than on offense for this exact reason.
Initial Gut Feedback
Battery was also fun. I had the numbers memorized to pop them right into the bunker 
First of all… dat training video. Very well done
First time playing yesterday for a few hours, my impressions:
The game kind of feels CoD-esq. (with ninja pro and steady aim if anyone gets that reference)
Footsteps are way way too loud.
As a huge ETQW Fan, movement is really not what I was hoping for. It doesn’t feel unique. I feel restricted and slow. Side to side movement is way too limited. Now pretty much whoever sees the other person first wins the fight. In ETQW if you got caught you might be able to pull out your knife and strafe jump to safety. Or dodge their shots. I just don’t get that feel from this game so far.
I don’t like the color schemes and team skins. I often found my self shooting my teammate. In one firefight my teammate was near two opponents and I honestly didn’t know who to shoot. I’m also finding it difficult seeing people. They seem to blend into the surroundings too much. Maybe its a low gfx thing?
Would like to see a spawn timer, health as a numerical value
will post more after a few more games
[QUOTE=chump;412346]
I don’t like the color schemes and team skins. I often found my self shooting my teammate. In one firefight my teammate was near two opponents and I honestly didn’t know who to shoot. I’m also finding it difficult seeing people. They seem to blend into the surroundings too much.[/QUOTE]
same here. id like the two teams to look totally different, maybe team colours. also each side needs background info that is different even if its just french v brits. not brit v brit. my preference would be.
multinational corp mercenaries v the people left in london.
when the corp team comes to take the peoples resources the people fight back. woo!
I said this before as well, I’d rather have distinct faction skins instead of relying on floating transparent names/icons above players heads. I’ve had many a hesitation as well when I catch a glimpse of someone and I’m trying to make out if they’re friendly or not… guess that’s one reason why FF is off.
i still managed to tk you last night assisted suicide kill. lol reading that now. just seems wrong.
Yeah the explodables are still a danger, probably to stop mindless spam… doesn’t seem to stop me though >.<
I have basically the same feelings as Chump after my first while playing.
I think the movement is by far the biggest issue to me. The current movement system seems to completely eliminate aggressive play styles. The sluggish movement coupled with the high damage/low health makes gun fights seem super static. It makes me REALLY miss ETQW/ET gun fights.
Maybe its just my setup but the left and right strafe feels horrible to me. If I stand in one spot and just strafe back and forth from left to right, it feels like no other FPS game I have ever played. I find it really hard to really get a feel for the weapons, fights and maps when the movement is such a huge hindrance.
[QUOTE=BMXer;412358]I have basically the same feelings as Chump after my first while playing.
I think the movement is by far the biggest issue to me. The current movement system seems to completely eliminate aggressive play styles. The sluggish movement coupled with the high damage/low health makes gun fights seem super static. It makes me REALLY miss ETQW/ET gun fights.
Maybe its just my setup but the left and right strafe feels horrible to me. If I stand in one spot and just strafe back and forth from left to right, it feels like no other FPS game I have ever played. I find it really hard to really get a feel for the weapons, fights and maps when the movement is such a huge hindrance.[/QUOTE]
I miss dancing. I was an amalgam of Fred Astaire and Michael Jackson in BRINK. But now It’s more like Rosie O’Donnell and Kathy Bates :’(
Inertia killed the dance star…
[QUOTE=chump;412346]First of all… dat training video. Very well done
First time playing yesterday for a few hours, my impressions:
The game kind of feels CoD-esq. (with ninja pro and steady aim if anyone gets that reference)
Footsteps are way way too loud.
As a huge ETQW Fan, movement is really not what I was hoping for. It doesn’t feel unique. I feel restricted and slow. Side to side movement is way too limited. Now pretty much whoever sees the other person first wins the fight. In ETQW if you got caught you might be able to pull out your knife and strafe jump to safety. Or dodge their shots. I just don’t get that feel from this game so far.
I don’t like the color schemes and team skins. I often found my self shooting my teammate. In one firefight my teammate was near two opponents and I honestly didn’t know who to shoot. I’m also finding it difficult seeing people. They seem to blend into the surroundings too much. Maybe its a low gfx thing?
Would like to see a spawn timer, health as a numerical value
will post more after a few more games[/QUOTE]
Agreed on all counts.
The slow movement speed combined with the incredibly loud footstep volume gives an unnecessary advantage to the defense as the onus is on the attackers to play aggressively. A fundamental issue with Brink was that it was virtually impossible to complete a single objective against an evenly matched opponent. I’m not saying that Dirty Bomb is defensively biased to the extent that Brink is (although it may be; I haven’t played enough on the maps to make that judgment), but I am leery of giving defenders any kind of advantage outside of their inherent advantage of defending instead of attacking. Setting times is exciting; 20 minute stalemates on both ends are not.
That said, the reason Brink is so bad in this regard is because defense spawns right next to the objective and offense spawns a mile away. My gut reaction from playing a few games yesterday is that this is not nearly as bad in Dirty Bomb, which is a good thing.
I do hope you guys increase the strafe speed to at least that of ETQW. I’m pretty much beating a dead horse at this point, but the movement feels incredibly clunky right now.
One thing to note though with increasing movement speed is that you need to reduce spread along with it. In my personal opinion spread is a bad mechanic because it’s essentially rolling the dice, but keeping the current spread/bloom on guns while increasing the movement will only exacerbate the issue. Not every gun has to be a laser (they should feel different) but make it so guns maintain the same accuracy regardless of movement (I’m willing to concede this point to some extent if you want to argue that jumping should introduce a slightly greater spread). This way you aren’t punished for being aggressive, and the better player wins the fight the majority of the time. To make the guns feel different, you can give them different bullet drop off, different recoil, etc. Just please don’t keep this bloom mechanic (or at least severely tone it down if you are absolutely intent on keeping it), because right now it doesn’t feel rewarding when I get a headshot kill. It feels more like, “well, the bullet spread decided to play in my favor that time.”
It’s my understanding that you guys are trying to cater to iron sight players as well. I can sympathize with that, as a lot of players nowadays are accustomed to that style of play. Iron sights don’t have to be made useless even with significantly increased movement speed. Simply make the spread tighter in iron sights, while introducing a movement slow. That way there is a risk and a reward to using iron sights. They’ll always be advantageous when you’re trying to hold down a position (while not being an automatic win as in CoD), and it will introduce a trade off to players who want to use them in a straight up fight.
Another thing I would like to mention is that maybe it’s just me, but when I’m getting shot it seems like my bullets don’t go where I want them to sometimes. My screen seems to recoil and my crosshair doesn’t seem to be on the guy when it actually is? Could just be the spread or that my ping is 100+, not sure. Either way, I have the view bob off in the menu.
It’s been mentioned, but please lower the rate of fire on the guns or increase the time to kill. Between my ping, the rate of fire of the guns, and the lack of movement, there is no time to react to a good player who gets the first shot, assuming they don’t get unlucky with the spread/bloom. It also doesn’t help that I feel like my character is being pushed when I’m shot, which further disorients me and gives the advantage to the person who shoots first. Speaking of ping, increasing the movement will lower the effect of latency as you will actually be able to react to being shot.
The balance between body shots and headshot damage seems about right at this point? Not sure, I’ll have to play with it a bit more.
I have a really good computer, but nevertheless I am relatively impressed with the performance, especially for a game in pre-alpha. Kudos on that, even though it may be worse for those without a good computer.
Also, would just like to say thank you for trashing the id Tech 4 engine.
Why would it inherently be slower because you’re iron sighting? Shooting mechanics (like rate of fire / damage etc) shouldn’t adjust because you’re hip firing or iron sighting.
ROF should just be reduced a little in general. I definitely do not want a ROF discrepancy between hip and iron sighting. But that’s just me.
I’m going to get evil stares again I know but could you not have rate of fire selectors?
Full/burst with recoil/spread and then a semi-auto/tap burst with lower recoil/spread?
[QUOTE=ras;412364]Just please don’t keep this bloom mechanic (or at least severely tone it down if you are absolutely intent on keeping it), because right now it doesn’t feel rewarding when I get a headshot kill. It feels more like, “well, the bullet spread decided to play in my favor that time.”
[/QUOTE]
It’d be interesting to get your opinion on this in a few days time after you’ve played some more, currently our spread on most guns is incredibly small and I personally don’t feel like I get many ‘chance’ head shots at all. Certainly it’s not pin-point at all times, but compared to the majority of other current FPS we’re considerably more accurate.
Not to say that the current values are anywhere near final, but the bloom is nothing like as large or game affecting as most of our previous titles.
With regards to your movement and feel feedback it’s very good, thanks. We’ve already had a lot of similar feedback and we’re starting to iterate in that area now, although it’s likely to be a good number of weeks before we get it entirely right I imagine.
[QUOTE=SockDog;412371]I’m going to get evil stares again I know but could you not have rate of fire selectors?
Full/burst with recoil/spread and then a semi-auto/tap burst with lower recoil/spread?[/QUOTE]
I can’t tell if you’re asking for it to be implemented, or if you’re asking for it to never happen lol.
Shouldn’t something like being able to compensate for recoil by burst firing or just full out spraying be up to the way a player handles how they’re playing? Meaning, if you want to burst fire, then just tap your fire button instead of laying down on it.
Although I can’t necessarily see a problem with having different firing ‘modes’ for each weapon – so long as they are fairly restricted. e.g. there shouldn’t be a mode to empty an entire clip in 0.5 seconds.
Because when you’re shooting through iron sight you’ve got almost none recoil/spread in DB but it’s impossible to get such while shooting full auto thru iron sight in RL IMO (don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of those “wanna every single game to be more realistic” freaks but as I said somewhere, aiming down sight aspect doesn’t look well in DB yet).
[QUOTE=Anti;412372]It’d be interesting to get your opinion on this in a few days time after you’ve played some more, currently our spread on most guns is incredibly small and I personally don’t feel like I get many ‘chance’ head shots at all. Certainly it’s not pin-point at all times, but compared to the majority of other current FPS we’re considerably more accurate.
Not to say that the current values are anywhere near final, but the bloom is nothing like as large or game affecting as most of our previous titles.
With regards to your movement and feel feedback it’s very good, thanks. We’ve already had a lot of similar feedback and we’re starting to iterate in that area now, although it’s likely to be a good number of weeks before we get it entirely right I imagine.[/QUOTE]
To be fair I’m using something like ETQW Promod as a benchmark, where guns were pretty much a laser and movement did not affect your accuracy (maybe it did to some extent, but I never noticed it).
It’s just that when strafing if you’re holding down mouse 1 the bloom is definitely there, at least on the guns I used. I guess you guys intended for shots to be burst while strafing, but I don’t think that will be necessary as long as the movement is fast enough. And if you’re going to make it so you have to tap shots while stafing, I’d much rather it be a little bit of predictable recoil (note: not random) and not bloom that you’re controlling, as the former can be mastered.
I’ll keep you posted though, I could just be out of practice.
[QUOTE=ras;412376]To be fair I’m using something like ETQW Promod as a benchmark, where guns were pretty much a laser and movement did not affect your accuracy (maybe it did to some extent, but I never noticed it).
It’s just that when strafing if you’re holding down mouse 1 the bloom is definitely there, at least on the guns I used. I guess you guys intended for shots to be burst while strafing, but I don’t think that will be necessary as long as the movement is fast enough. And if you’re going to make it so you have to tap shots while stafing, I’d much rather it be a little bit of predictable recoil (note: not random) and not bloom that you’re controlling, as the former can be mastered.
I’ll keep you posted though, I could just be out of practice.[/QUOTE]
I played a reasonable amount of the Promod for ETQW and that still had bloom, considering the combat distances it probably had greater affect than what we have now, but maybe hannes can provide more info.
The current intention is that there would be some burst firing to get the most out of hip fire though, with recoil more in effect when using iron sight, but it would be interesting to hear what people think about recoil vs spread, when hip firing, as the ‘skill’ mechanic of the guns.