INF3RN0's brink balance discussion

(Apples) #61

Yeah and the point I was trying to make is that its simply impossible to test every variables and covariables in any environment including randomness as it will allways include uncertainty, oh yes you can use models, but models aint reality so barking about it is just as pointless as not testing every variables. Statistics are NOT a reality and should not be considered as that, statistics helps to prove a point only if the idea behind this point is also validated by other means, as bibliographical matches or biological / physical data and observations. I just found quite laughable that the only thing he can bark about was “Gief me statistics or your point aint valid! grrrr”. His point was maybe based on an opinion and not valid indeed, but statistics wouldnt make it any more valid, as I can pretty much prove anything with the appropriate analysis, even wrong things.

I’m just gently laughing at people trying to have a scientific thinking when they seems (note that word) not to have any clue in mathematic, modeling or any statistical background.

That was my main concern and I apologise I dropped off the main subject, as said I’m out of here now, because it would be pointless to derail even more :wink:

Peace

(INF3RN0) #62

I mean… if you want scientific knowledge… I was looking at this stats site for a while http://denkirson.xanga.com/738334226/brink/ and those displayed in game, but you really just have to test the weapons in game yourself. I was shooting at a wall for about 15minutes with some different weapons to check spreads, played some pugs with non-pub players, scrimmed, and talked with various players about the game. What it boiled down to was that sure you could use weapons other than an SMG if you wanted, but the SMGs just did it better every time. Your not going to kill a sniper with an SMG from a mile away sure, but almost every map has a way to force everything into a mid-range firefight or is within the SMG range. ARs will out shoot an SMG from maybe the same distance as a sniper if you single burst it for more damage and accuracy. When I am able to kill someone with an SMG who feels like they are way too far away for the weapon name to make sense, I am going to see it as a problem. I mean everyone on the same page is going to use it to their advantage, but still understand it’s an issue. SMGs shoot straighter and faster than anything else and have more than enough range. ARs lose their spread quickly when hold-firing, so you have to put yourself a fairly good distance to possibly out shoot an SMG. Heavy weapons have random spread and recoil on all axis that means your going to hit something maybe, but aim isn’t going to matter and your usually not going to kill anyone. I might just be too used to having weapons play different roles than they do in Brink, where the SMGs are designed to kill everything at close-mid range, the ARs are for killing stuff far away, and the heavy weapons are for softening up people who group up and hold hands… I’m just not a fan of putting random spread and random recoil on weapons to prevent aim from having any meaning. Maybe I’ll eventually get used to dying as a heavy with a heavy weapon because I am tanking damage and putting out some AOE, but then I’ll realize things were just better off when I had an SMG instead.

And I really am curious what Operatives exactly do for their team? I mean, as in what do they do really… because when you have an organized clan match people usually would rather have an extra medic or engy. Operatives have always been the pub class, which is why I think they need something extra.

I was never trying to be egotistical or anything with this thread, but was just pointing out that at this moment those who are dominating this game seem to have found the best way to play it. No one is stopping you guy’s who disagree with proving it wrong though. I would like to see your well balanced team with heavies, operatives, ars, etc take em on though. Just an FYI though, competitive and pub Brink are pretty much the same at this time, so it won’t be any different.

(muell) #63

Inferno you’re a retard, you’re not special and you don’t know jack.

Keep shooting the walls lol.

(shedim) #64

Capturing command posts, upgrading them, revealing mines/enemies, performing comm hacks, capturing turrets, denying zones with their calltrop nades. I wouldn’t call that useless. Something that really troubles me is the fact operatives can’t remove hack devices. That should be changed!

Sure, they’re not another buffbot, ammo crate or a revivebot but that doesn’t mean they’re useless. I agree they need a buff, especially being able to do something while disguised, like a double damage headshot with revolvers when behind the enemy or some kind of backstab ability. And they should be able to reload their gun while disguised ffs!
Smoke grenades would also be quite useful for an operative.

I also like the idea of the Operative as a debuffer.

(INF3RN0) #65

[QUOTE=muell;314474]Inferno you’re a retard, you’re not special and you don’t know jack.

Keep shooting the walls lol.[/QUOTE]

Glad you somehow think I made this for myself… lol.

(Got2ball) #66

[QUOTE=shedim;314486]Capturing command posts, upgrading them, revealing mines/enemies, performing comm hacks, capturing turrets, denying zones with their calltrop nades. I wouldn’t call that useless. Something that really troubles me is the fact operatives can’t remove hack devices. That should be changed!

Sure, they’re not another buffbot, ammo crate or a revivebot but that doesn’t mean they’re useless. I agree they need a buff, especially being able to do something while disguised, like a double damage headshot with revolvers when behind the enemy or some kind of backstab ability. And they should be able to reload their gun while disguised ffs!
Smoke grenades would also be quite useful for an operative.

I also like the idea of the Operative as a debuffer.[/QUOTE]

I agree Operatives should be the ones to remove hack devices. Engineer’s should be used to remove explosive plants and Operatives for Hack’s. I also think that Soldiers should be the one’s passing out Kevlar plating but if they did that they would need to figure something else for Engineers to do.

Maybe they could give Engineer’s Motion sensor device that they could plant in the ground and anyone who tripped them would be marks on the map for (x) ammount of time and it would notify the Engineer of movement in that area over VOIP. They could have these countered a couple of ways either no one can see but Operatives (giving them another purpose on the battlefield), anyone could destroy them if they noticed them or maybe they could be hacked by Operatives effectively turning against the team using them.

Also they need to do something about Engineer Turrets. They seem a bit useless to be honest. They have such a slow response time, limited range, low health and low dmg that they really are not even worth the investment. It takes quite a bit of time to set one up (especially with how funny it is where you place it) that the risks for planting one are never really worth it usually ending up with you getting killed. They can be immobilized with one well placed grenade rendering them useless and most people can run right past it before it even has a chance to start up.

They really need to adjust the response time and health of these if they are going to make them do low dmg and have such a small radius of detection. Most importantly they need more health they shouldn’t be able to be taken out by one grenade that is a little ridiculous. Also what the hell is the deal with them being immobilized at like half health basically. They should not shut down until like 10-15% health.

(Glyph) #67

Increasing the headshot damage multiplier to 1.75 benefits Lights more than anyone else, especially as they can simply spray their SMGs and get lucky with them. Why not make the headshot multiplier different for each body type? A Heavy certainly has the biggest disadvantage when trying to avoid enemy fire so increasing their headshot multiplier makes them mostly pointless. Just like the Dwarf in Shadowrun the Heavy should have a lower headshot damage multiplier than the other body types due to their reduced movement speed.

Ideally each weapon type would have its own damage modifier. This would allow ARs and Snipers to benefit from precision shots and take away the lucky factor for SMGs and LMGs.

(murmur) #68

[QUOTE=Glyph;314590]Increasing the headshot damage multiplier to 1.75 benefits Lights more than anyone else, especially as they can simply spray their SMGs and get lucky with them. Why not make the headshot multiplier different for each body type? A Heavy certainly has the biggest disadvantage when trying to avoid enemy fire so increasing their headshot multiplier makes them mostly pointless. Just like the Dwarf in Shadowrun the Heavy should have a lower headshot damage multiplier than the other body types due to their reduced movement speed.

Ideally each weapon type would have its own damage modifier. This would allow ARs and Snipers to benefit from precision shots and take away the lucky factor for SMGs and LMGs.[/QUOTE]

are you mentally challenged?
This isn’t source, a flat weapon buff to headshot damage multiplier isn’t going to benefit a high ROF gun more. It will benefit certain guns more than others, just due to the fact that their damage cutoff will leave them beyond a 2-3 hs range, but not a specific class of guns more than any other, besides the dragonuv.
:stroggtapir:

(sereNADE) #69

i’m in agreement with the inferno’s first post. the points he made are brought up in just about all brink discussions between my clan members concerning combat and weapons. whether comp or pub the balances he proposes need to be in both. (im a pub guy)

lol at saying inferno doesn’t know how to play. starting a reply like that just about strips further arguments of validity imo. then i read the replies to be sure and what do you know, mostly nonsense.

(KAS--Will) #70

There is… that’s how bots kill so professionally/quickly.

(Malacca) #71

This is a good summary of what a lot of people I’ve talked to think about the Heavy weapons, particularly the Gotlung. Also, it seems as though too often, a Heavy (who presumably has more health) firing a minigun at close/medium range will lose to a medium/light firing an SMG (and as we all know, anyone firing anything at any range will lose to a CARB-9 in too many circumstances regardless of what all the self-proclaimed “pros” in here say).

Assuming both people are aiming correctly, a minigun should never be outperformed by a SMG at close to close-medium range unless the SMG starts shooting meaningfully earlier. If they have even remotely close dmg per round, why does the firehose (i.e,. minigun) lose? If all they meant the Gotlung to do was make scary noises and have the appearance of offering suppressing fire without actually killing anyone, they should rethink presentation because it does look like it’s supposed to be a killer.

Right now, the Carl Weathers weapon is outdueling the Jesse the Body weapon at point blank range and it’s frustrating as hell.

(Je T´aime) #72

I also agree with inferno initial post, specially about smgs tweaking and stuff, and about buffs too, I tought Brink was a game that you didnt instantly die like other fps out there, but more and more I keep beyng headhoted as medium, killed in 2 secs etc etc wich contributes to camping, and people avoing doing the main objectives.

(Nikto) #73

^this

i’ve found the OHK issue pops up at rank 4 btw, so i’m guessing it’s the improved weapon buff that’s doing this, i’d suggest either giving all bodytypes a hp-buff or reducing all weapon damage, or (my favorite) taking away the improved weapon buff

(wolfnemesis75) #74

The game is too new to talk balance changes. Right now it seems VERY balanced overall.