INF3RN0's brink balance discussion

(INF3RN0) #1

Here are a few current thoughts of mine on improving Brink in the weak areas, without trying to make it a completely different game. These aren’t necessarily things that I want to happen, but more so ideas that could help lead to an eventual better balance of things. Please post your feedback.

WEAPONS:

Firstly, the hitboxes in Brink need to be more relevant; ie aiming @ head should count for something and be more viable. Increase head hit box to 1.75x damage multiplier. (also mentioned below, SMG spray/spread is fine as is, but AR needs to be much tighter)

SMGs
-Increase falloff damage mid-long range
-Noticeable spread bloom at mid-long range
-Maintain current low recoil

The SMG should function as a purely close quarters combat weapon, being more spray and pray effective up close than other weaponry, but losing its effectiveness at a distance.

Assault Rifles
-Weapon spread and RoF should be less than that of an SMG
-Should be the best mid-long range weapons, especially when using cover
-Recoil should be the same as the SMGs
-Clip sizes should be less than that of an SMG

The Assualt Rifles should function as the ideal “pure aim” weapon at all distances, although the reaction time of an SMG should be able to counter it at close proximity.

Heavy Weapons
-Remove random X axis recoil on Maximus MG (this weapon needs to be more like the ETQW GPMG; less movement/crouching=better hipfire/much more accurate when scoped in)
-While hipfiring miniguns, add a 3-5second overheat delay which then triggers random X axis recoil. Scoping in should further reduce mobility, but counter X axis recoil. Hold firing while scoped should result in exponential Y axis recoil.
-Miniguns should be least effective against enemies behind cover or at long range.
-Maintain current clip size and reload speeds.

The Heavy MGs should function as rewarding the most consistent high damage weaponry in exchange for slow reaction time, high recoil, and reduced movement speed. When hipfired, these weapons should be less effective at all ranges, but once scoped in and firing has commenced, they should be the most powerful weapons at close-mid range in open areas. Note that high recoil makes it very difficult to kill enemies behind cover.

BODY TYPES:

For the most part, heavies are the main type that needs improvement.

Heavy
-Buff heavy weaponry (as listed above)
-Increase supply meter by 1-2 allowing for more initial buffing (movement counters this from being abused since they take longer to get from A to B, but we would see more heavy medic/engies).
-Maintain movement speed, it is a good weakness
-Maintain current HP.
-Heavy counters should be flanks/stuns, snipers, or catching them off guard with any weapon.
-Allow Heavies to have 2 default grenade charge slots, with longer cool downs (maybe idk).

BUFFS:

Damage- 15% (opposed to 30%)

Kevlar- Not sure what +50 Kevlar does

Health- Maximum of 50-70 extra HP (reduced from 100)

CLASSES:

The two classes that I think currently need some help are the soldier and operative (being more underplayed than others).

Soldier
-Buffs given to a soldier should result 1.5x-2x the effect (this is with reduced buff percentages) not including the HP buff. This would make the soldier the most effective assault class, but it would rely completely on the support of the medic and engy to gain any advantage. (reasoning is to counter lack of self-buffing and make it more than just an ammo bucket)
-Maintain armor piercing ability, but remove base kevlar in exchange for the above ^.

Operative
-Anti-hack (remove the engy hack box disarm ability, and allow the operative to anti-hack @ 20-30% reduced speed)
-DeBuff Grenade (removes current buffs on enemy players within a concentrated blast radius)

ABILITIES:

MMMMMMMM WILL ADD LATER

(prophett) #2

Definitely agree with this - there should be a greater reward for good headshot accuracy…

(Got2ball) #3

I like your post OP was well written and thought out well. I agree with alot of what you said especially the weapons. As things are right now SMG’s seem to be the only relevant weapon in Brink everything else falls short and seems pretty useless. I would really like to see them adjust the other weapon types to be more practical and effective in Brink.

One weapon you forgot about was the Shotgun which also needs to be adjusted. With such a slow rate of fire and it taking anywhere from 2-5 shots depending on buffs they really do not seem of much use. Also it is very inaccurate especially while moving would like to see the pellet pattern a bit tighter.

(SphereCow) #4

infartno howcome we no play togeth;;[

(Scip) #5

Soldier needs a buff? lol a fully upgraded soldier is already a beast

and the fact that the operative is the least played class doesnt mean it s the worst. there s simply no need for more than 1 or 2 operatives per team.

(INF3RN0) #6

[QUOTE=Scip;313171]Soldier needs a buff? lol a fully upgraded soldier is already a beast

and the fact that the operative is the least played class doesnt mean it s the worst. there s simply no need for more than 1 or 2 operatives per team.[/QUOTE]

Soldiers are good for nade spam mostly. I mean SD designed the game to reduce the “rambo” style of support classes in Brink, but instead people get even more punished when your medic says he’s out of supply from self-buffing. I just think soldiers need more incentive to be played and receive buffs from support classes, though its not the biggest issue.

Operatives are pretty useless. They are fun sure, but don’t bring much to the table until there’s a hack obj. They shouldn’t be overplayed, but they ought to do something more important. Operatives having the ability to reverse hack progress makes more sense, as engies already do so much. Making operatives counter buffs was another idea I had to make them more useful as a class as well…

(Dthy) #7

Agree with all of it. Two things i would add (and if you’ve ever played against me in any game) is that the sniper is not powerful enough for this kind of gameplay. I think it could be fixed by shortening the time between shots (i find that by the time im allowed to shot again, they’ve gotten away, far away…) and also that grenades seem to have little impact, mostly getting knockdowns, and rarely getting kills.

(SphereCow) #8

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;313194]Soldiers are good for nade spam mostly. I mean SD designed the game to reduce the “rambo” style of support classes in Brink, but instead people get even more punished when your medic says he’s out of supply from self-buffing. I just think soldiers need more incentive to be played and receive buffs from support classes, though its not the biggest issue.

Operatives are pretty useless. They are fun sure, but don’t bring much to the table until there’s a hack obj. They shouldn’t be overplayed, but they ought to do something more important. Operatives having the ability to reverse hack progress makes more sense, as engies already do so much. Making operatives counter buffs was another idea I had to make them more useful as a class as well…[/QUOTE]

They should be able to use weapons in uni. : /

(FishStix) #9

[QUOTE=prophe+;313087]

Definitely agree with this - there should be a greater reward for good headshot accuracy…[/QUOTE]

Agree with agreement by prophet

(crow) #10

^ NOT GOOD, because if you make the headshot multiplier higher, you further the randomness in the game.

the fix for the aiming mechanix is to lower spread and allow people with good aim to actually hit the headshots rather than having the guns shoot with such large spreads all the time.

SMGs have lowest spread, yet they are so crap in terms of control.

(INF3RN0) #11

[QUOTE=crow;313428]^ NOT GOOD, because if you make the headshot multiplier higher, you further the randomness in the game.

the fix for the aiming mechanix is to lower spread and allow people with good aim to actually hit the headshots rather than having the guns shoot with such large spreads all the time.

SMGs have lowest spread, yet they are so crap in terms of control.[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned earlier, SMGs should be the way they are now as they are the spray guns, but the AR’s need to have way lower spreads ET style. The guns make no sense at this moment.

(Boltthrower) #12

It just seems abundantly clear that the AR and heavy weapons need their relative effective range increased and spread reduced, this would counter not just that aiming issue but many of the balance issues people keep posting over and over in these threads.

As for smgs and pistols the seem about right maybe the smg range is a tad long but no big deal.

I disagree on upping headshot dmg you seem to die rather quickly in this game already and it is basically a rtcw/et game you need to track with your aim to drop people and should be rewarded for doing so. Fixing the ARs and spread in general would again fix this issue of headshots not having the importance they need. I assume splash damage will be looking in to this otherwise I fail to see why they gave headshots a higher damage value then body or leg shots.

(GingThu) #13

meh game works fine for me, honestly everything seems really balanced. I have yet to see any 1 person run a map. A team may run the map, but thats the point…teamwork.

I dont want SD to go and add all these crazy things and then create a whole new pool of problems. I think weapons work pretty well for the most part.

If anything i think SMG should have more spray to them. The Bulpdaun for example is a little to accurate for an SMG. I got no problem with the AR’s just give the SMG’s more spray…MAYBE. First like to see it tested.

(PillowTalk) #14

Here’s a big one:

Remove one shot kills.

(Laokin) #15

SMG’s already have CRAZY fall off damage at a distance, I don’t know what game you’re playing…

The buffs are fine, if anything, heavy should have more ammo, and better accuracy, and that’s it. Kevlar is defeated by the Soldier… so it’s a non issue.

I dislike giving the Operative the ability to disarm boxes, it’ll break the game, as he can easily disguise in and disarm a box… where as an engy needs to have the way cleared for him, stimulating more team play.

If anything needs to be swapped, I’d like to see soldiers getting the Weapon buff, and Engi’s getting the ammo… This would also balance the amount of XP the engi’s get vs Soldiers… and Allow soldiers to actually be viable (in the meta game… that is.) This might have to make their armor ignoring skill, not 100%, but like 40%, for the balance of the self buffed amp damage.

But I do like the debuff grenade for the operative that would be hot… I think it would have to be an either or choice though, sticky or debuff grenade.

Overall, I almost completely disagree with your assesment of Brink.

(INF3RN0) #16

[QUOTE=GingThu;313452]meh game works fine for me, honestly everything seems really balanced. I have yet to see any 1 person run a map. A team may run the map, but thats the point…teamwork.

I dont want SD to go and add all these crazy things and then create a whole new pool of problems. I think weapons work pretty well for the most part.

If anything i think SMG should have more spray to them. The Bulpdaun for example is a little to accurate for an SMG. I got no problem with the AR’s just give the SMG’s more spray…MAYBE. First like to see it tested.[/QUOTE]

Here is the illusion of weapon balance. All the weapons have random spread patterns, but SMGs spray is less than most. So basically you aim your SMG at the upper chest area and that’s it. Heavy weapons are crap, ARs get out played by SMGs. Take a look at the MG nests, even when you aim the turret gun it just shoots randomly. Imo this was an incredibly bad method of “balance” and if anything ruins the entire gun game. Was the ET style gun play dumped to make the game more user-friendly by reducing the skill cap? Again… I feel like SD accidentally mixed in a lot of the ignorant whine from the ETQW forums and made some terrible decisions in game mechanics.

(Laokin) #17

[QUOTE=PillowTalk;313465]Here’s a big one:

Remove one shot kills.[/QUOTE]

Because there are any?

(Besides shotties and the Sniper, and that’s only really VS lights…)

Shotties would be useless if they weren’t one shot at PB… If you are getting one shotted all the time, you aren’t playing your light right… switch body types.

(Laokin) #18

Except that SMG’s do no damage at anything further than 25 feet… Also, the fact that SMG’s do nothing vs Kevlar… Then combine the scenario’s, they are far away, AND have body armor… and you can really see how ineffective an SMG is vs an AR at range (Which is what the AR is designed for.)

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight… sounds like you don’t know how to play TBH.

(I will agree with the mg nests though, If they are gonna be random spread like that, they atleast need to do some damage, right now, they are 'bout useless…)

If you have an AR, it’s for long range, your secondary is an SMG or pistol… so, when in SMG range, here is a novel Idea… switch to your SMG.

Heavy weapons are for pushing Objective and hitting clustered groups of people and weakening them all, for the rest of your team to clean up. They aren’t supposed to be like TF2’s heavy…

That would make Heavy OP.

(INF3RN0) #19

[QUOTE=Laokin;313469]SMG’s already have CRAZY fall off damage at a distance, I don’t know what game you’re playing…
[/QUOTE]

Unless your reaaaaaaaaally far away, I am pretty sure the SMGs dominates close-midrange (not to mention all the maps are mostly close-mid combat. Every competitive team I have talked to says the same.

[QUOTE=Laokin;313469]The buffs are fine, if anything, heavy should have more ammo, and better accuracy, and that’s it. Kevlar is defeated by the Soldier… so it’s a non issue.
[/QUOTE]

Heavies need work, not sure

I dislike giving the Operative the ability to disarm boxes, it’ll break the game, as he can easily disguise in and disarm a box… where as an engy needs to have the way cleared for him, stimulating more team play.

You can’t be in disguise while in action and would have to walk right up to the objective to begin a hack reversal. Not sure how an engy would be better, and as they already have enough duties operative makes more sense.

But I do like the debuff grenade for the operative that would be hot… I think it would have to be an either or choice though, sticky or debuff grenade.

Something like that would at least make the operative bring something comparable to the other class buffs into the game, instead of being the fun to play class.

Overall, I almost completely disagree with your assesment of Brink.

That’s fine. I guess this is your first SD game? The other ones did it better imo.

(Laokin) #20

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;313482]Unless your reaaaaaaaaally far away, I am pretty sure the SMGs dominates close-midrange. Every competitive team I have talked to says the same.

Heavies need work, not sure

You can’t be in disguise while in action and would have to walk right up to the objective to begin a hack reversal. Not sure how an engy would be better, and as they already have enough duties operative makes more sense.

Something like that would at least make the operative bring something comparable to the other class buffs into the game, instead of being the fun to play class.

That’s fine. I guess this is your first SD game? The other ones did it better imo.[/QUOTE]

No, this isn’t my first SD game. I play ET for RTCW, and I played ETQW for a bit before I realized what most other people realized… It was horrible to use the quake liscense, and they made an ugly silly game rife with Strafe Jumping.

(Strafe Jumping is legit, I got into MP gaming with Quake World and the original Team Fotress… and continued all the way up till now with Quake Live… but it makes no sense in a team objective based game, yet taking advanced movement out of the game would have been bad, hence why SD went the parkour route in Brink.)

The fact of the matter is Brink isn’t ET. It’s a new game, if you want Brink to be ET, just play ET.

And NO. The SMG’s damage fall off is insanely high in this game… even terrible on the brink of medium-long range… abysmal long range. The reason why they seem to shine is for the simple fact that if you are a light you can close distance insanely fast. This doesn’t mean they outshine AR’s, it just means they do their job, and with speed buffs, or lights utilizing the speed increases of wall jumping you can close distance extremely fast.

As for the operative disguising in… I do it to place hack boxes all the time… and I usually succeed in 30% of the hack before I need to retreat/be reinforced.

You disguise, and take out the people medics gaurding the hack spots first. 1 operative can clear an entire room if he chooses his moments right. With melee, sliding, sticky bombs and the element of surprise as well as a Kevlar Vest and a Weapon buff… you are QUITE powerfull. Note, while fighting 1 person, you can slide into a different person, get up and melee another person, switch weapons, kill the guy running in, throw a sticky at the most probably point of entry, redisguise and do it all again if you’d like… I don’t think you are utilizing the tools of the class fully… so you don’t see the actually potential in the toolset you are given…

Again, this shows that you are most likely just bad at the game.

Also, if heavies need work, than why does every comp team use them?

Uhhhhhhh-huuuuuuuh…

A heavy Medic with a gatling gun and a vest with a damage buff is one of the strongest and hardest to kill dudes in the game… and since he isn’t supposed to be rambo, it sort of forces him into the role of, wow… get this… Medic.