Improving/New Obj Types


(INF3RN0) #1

Pasting this over from Nexon forum. This was similarly discussed in the VIP section ages ago.

One of the biggest places that could use some majorly unconventional improvements is how Obj types work. Shooting and movement have always out shadowed doing the objectives, and the only real relative aspect of the games being Obj based is simply that it encourages teamwork instead of tdm. The actual interaction of completing the obj itself has always been extremely undesirable. A lot of people act like agnostic obj types changed so much, but let’s be honest… we have been dealing with plain boring obj interactions forever. In the end your dropping the responsibility of your least capable player to look at the obj and press F, and they somehow live in the disillusionment that they are somehow “good at doing objs” (wtf is that anyway??). Performing objs should be made to involve the same effort as every other aspect of the game play, be just as fast paced oriented and exciting, and bring the same value as ability to aim/move.

Primary Obj types like C4, repairs, hacking, escorts, and captures are all very boring. Why? Essentially your limiting all your actions to looking at an object and holding down a button, or your forced to endure a slow paced ride along. The biggest exception amongst all of the obj types we have experienced is the doc run objectives. These objectives don’t interfere with your ability to move or shoot, and allow for diverse strategy in their completion/protection. It makes them vastly more exciting and non-repetitive in comparison to everything else and compliments the game play much better. Now there might be a place for the older dated obj types, but they definitely need some extreme revamping in how players interact and perform them.

Here’s just a couple ideas for how the dynamics of older objs could be improved, as well as some more creative ideas for new obj types;

General
-Greater freedom of interaction/placement
-More mobility involved/allowed
-More dynamic opportunity (choices, ex. pick 1 of 2 walls to destroy, objs in motion (moving train), multi-point objs (doc runs))

EV Escort
The EV moves automatically, but requires fuel to move. Add fuel collection points on the map and allow players to collect and then refuel the EV. The EV also has hull armor, which when damaged by the enemy causes the fuel to leak out of the tank at a variable rate. Add speed boost station side-objs, which when constructed allow the EV to travel faster (consuming fuel at a faster rate however).

Projectile Obj Types
An obj which you can shoot at a target delivery point. This might involve calculating some degree of projectile curvature while in full motion and landing the obj in a small receptacle. Point blank delivery being easier to perform, but opportunity for skill shots available. Also allowing for players to pass the obj to each other and bounce it off of the environment, while enemies could block its path of travel or shoot it mid-air to auto-return it. This would likely be an insta-return when an enemy collided with it and would auto-return within a few seconds on the ground.

Add ideas and discuss mkay.


(rookie1) #2

-More dynamic opportunity …objs in motion (moving train) …and Also allowing for players to pass the obj to each other…

Vote Yes ! :slight_smile:


(shaftz0r) #3

pretty awesome post, agree with everything here (except for the flying objs :p). i havent even launched this game in a week. unfortunately there’s really nothing left for me, but i still look forward to updates


(Glottis-3D) #4

-drop object is awesome. (from engie to soldier for example)
-plant where you want is great. (miss plants= best fails ever.) remember, that you could plant doors from unexpected defs-side (volcano, sewer) !!
-selectable hack devise/repair tool/c4 = fast pace object making/reacting at enemies.


(BomBaKlaK) #5

Miss plant, tricks plants all the possibilities to complete objective is missing, now it’s just a one way obj type game.
Doc run are not so fun also due to the capture mechanic, it’s much better to be able to capture and return it more fluently (run on it, or just push a key to instantly grab it), actually this a is not so fun waiting to hack the milk jug security before taking it … A long transmission time (like on new LB) is much better (10 or 15s transmission time can be perfect) then you need to protect you mate when transmitting (sry but as it is in ETQW is perfect) that makes game much more fun, lot of intense fights around the final destination point, and multiple drops and return make the game even more intense. For me Island in ETQW as the best doc run ever ! you can chose to block the pick up point, or the transmission point, and many many different access, all finishing in a final bottleneck near the obj or a little room with multiple access. that’s make the pick up no to hard but it’s a challenge to transmit the obj. Be able to drop the obj to give it to a mate can be really appreciated to !

I’m ok for different kind of objectives but capture a point as we did in BF conquest mod to do an obj is just boring … Obj need to be something to activate, build, carry, etc … with a real interaction. I hate the first obj and the crane point in batersea, or the canarywarf 2nd part of the 1rst obj when you need to capture a point to build the bridge like if it’s magical or something … some mechanism to activate for attackers and destroy for defenders (or re-capturable, hackable or something) feel much more rewarding for the ones who run for the obj, here in a lot of situation you don’t even know who is doing what, and when the obj is done is more or less sometimes by pure mistake …

Last canary warf last obj is the same as planting now and it just don’t work at all … and alternative obj are not really interesting …
So waiting for much better obj design, but no big hopes at this point.


(acQu) #6

I think one of the first posts i ever made about xT (formerly DB) was about adding a rocket from space, which has to be done by the attacking team. The rocket flies down and acts as sort of transport vehicle for extracting an item or whatever.

Was just a random idea though, but the basic touch of it is that this would be action packed and nice. It is the same sort of idea as Titanfall (which i had basically as well for xT before i even knew Titanfall, sorry, yeah, was a random idea also), where you call down that big mammut sized beast of metal and interact with it. When the titan descends from sky => this is an event itself, so stuff like that can also be done with <insert new objective mechanic here> as well (it doesn’t have to be a rocket though :D).

But, with the theme chosen for xT (radioactive London) it leaves hardly any room to be real creative with stuff like that. But i am sure there can be stuff done, even so late (it is beta now, so stuff can change). :slight_smile:


(Glottis-3D) #7

hmmm.
how about this:

an Important object is dropped from a Helicopter/plane via a landing platform and defending team is able to shoot it by a big GUN (a large MG analog) - a certain person shoots it. If Defs do shoot it down - it falls to a place, where attackers have disadvantage. If defenders fail to shoot it down it lands to a place, where attackers have advangate (shorter doc run for example).


(prophett) #8

[QUOTE=krokodealer;488416]
an Important object is dropped from a Helicopter/plane via a landing platform[/QUOTE]

This reminded me of a game mode in Soldier Front 2. There is a map with 3 terminals where the attacking team can call in a chopper. The chopper lands and sticks around for 20-30s or so and takes off again if the attackers can’t evacuate. They can then call it in again before the map time expires.


(Glottis-3D) #9

HOW about this:

with Pilers/iPod in one hand, mercs can get his secondary weapon and shoot, sacrificing his repair/hack speed.


(Pytox) #10

Fuel for EV would become tedious after a while i think :tongue:


(Erkin31) #11

Totally agree with BomBaKlaK !

For objectives, I like Dystopia. The link between the reality and the cyberspace require a lot of teamplay, and the objectives need generally some skilled actions to be completed.


(attack) #12

reminds me of l4d ,the one mission in the shopping centre.


(Glottis-3D) #13

it was a pain in the arse!


(Pytox) #14

yep especially the last ones :smiley:


(BomBaKlaK) #15

Yesterday I play Execution with Ashog and I saw for the first time the new execution map Canal with textures.
And what a blast ! I like this map, there is so much way, multiple access, all the houses have a nice design, and definitely we need some design like this with obj maps. I really want to see some maps with this kind of layout with multiple access to an obj. Not always frontal fight like it’s the case now on most of the maps (Tube effect). Put some constructions, or stuff do do to open some new access like you did in Greenwich (in this maps secondary obj are to close from the attacker spawn, but the idea is here) or hackable doors or something. With real capturable spawn points, with a meaning for both team.

I like the idea of the base to defend like we have on fuel dump, Oasis, supply depot, salvage, volcano, sewer, area22, etc … With an open area at the beginning like an outpost and a final attack on the defenders base, with closer fights and hard last obj to do, more tension in the fight. Doing an obj at the last second and make your team win is the main adrenaline rush you can get in this type of games. And for the moment obj design are not providing this feeling … I want this feeling back !

I ear from a little voice that peoples are working on maps on their own free time, it’s a really nice news so please check the Execution map Camden (I think that’s a fishbus design ! is it ? ) houses, corridors, doors, open areas, tricks access, etc … have the good scale and it’s really fun with all this access and tricks, That’s the best map in this game for the moment but only on execution mode, some maps like this in obj mod can be perfect, I really see this map a part of a 3 objective map.

Fiinaly I really think carryable objectives are still broken, hacking the milk jug is not fun … need to be easy to capture and return (just pass on it) but hard to transmit (10s transmition time or more), sorry again but ETQW is the model to follow for me. The mechanic of this obj in “DirtyBomb” is not really working as it is. Maybe just an instant pick or return on pressing a key. But something need to be done on this to. (Make it fun !)

And please, Remove this horrible zones to capture (Worst obj design ever !)


(Protekt1) #16

I think my thread about positioning/spacing between objectives and controllable areas is on point (never got a blue response so not sure if they saw it).

To sum it up short, I basically said that more thought has to be put into making powerful and meaningful spots to control that help either attack or defend objectives. The end result is that it will end up with less of a meat grinder feeling because it will either force people to spread out more or at least give them enough reason to, and in return give more dynamic battles in certain objectives.

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/38876-Reducing-the-meat-grind-feel-by-increasing-spacing


(Kl3ppy) #17

[QUOTE=Protekt1;491482]I think my thread about positioning/spacing between objectives and controllable areas is on point (never got a blue response so not sure if they saw it).

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/38876-Reducing-the-meat-grind-feel-by-increasing-spacing[/QUOTE]

They saw it :wink:


(rookie1) #18

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;491481]Yesterday I play Execution with Ashog and I saw for the first time the new execution map camden with textures.
And what a blast ! I like this map, there is so much way, multiple access, all the houses have a nice design, and definitely we need some design like this with obj maps. I really want to see some maps with this kind of layout with multiple access to an obj. Not always frontal fight like it’s the case now on most of the maps (Tube effect). Put some constructions, or stuff do do to open some new access like you did in Greenwich (in this maps secondary obj are to close from the attacker spawn, but the idea is here) or hackable doors or something. With real capturable spawn points, with a meaning for both team.

I like the idea of the base to defend like we have on fuel dump, Oasis, supply depot, salvage, volcano, sewer, area22, etc … With an open area at the beginning like an outpost and a final attack on the defenders base, with closer fights and hard last obj to do, more tension in the fight. Doing an obj at the last second and make your team win is the main adrenaline rush you can get in this type of games. And for the moment obj design are not providing this feeling … I want this feeling back !

I ear from a little voice that peoples are working on maps on their own free time, it’s a really nice news so please check the Execution map Camden (I think that’s a fishbus design ! is it ? ) houses, corridors, doors, open areas, tricks access, etc … have the good scale and it’s really fun with all this access and tricks, That’s the best map in this game for the moment but only on execution mode, some maps like this in obj mod can be perfect, I really see this map a part of a 3 objective map.

Fiinaly I really think carryable objectives are still broken, hacking the milk jug is not fun … need to be easy to capture and return (just pass on it) but hard to transmit (10s transmition time or more), sorry again but ETQW is the model to follow for me. The mechanic of this obj in “DirtyBomb” is not really working as it is. Maybe just an instant pick or return on pressing a key. But something need to be done on this to. (Make it fun !)

And please, Remove this horrible zones to capture (Worst obj design ever !)[/QUOTE]
I rarely hearing you that enthusiast about something in a Map :wink:
I never saw a Camden execution in the server list ,you sure of the name ? Got a SS ?


(BomBaKlaK) #19

[QUOTE=rookie1;491487]I rarely hearing you that enthusiast about something in a Map :wink:
I never saw a Camden execution in the server list ,you sure of the name ? Got a SS ?[/QUOTE]

Maybe it’s not camden, but the map with the trains on alpha map server, if some ppl are interested to play.

[Edit] the map name is Canal !


(rookie1) #20

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;491489]Maybe it’s not camden, but the map with the trains on alpha map server, if some ppl are interested to play.

[Edit] the map name is Canal ![/QUOTE]

Just saw this one in TDM (TDM_Camden) yeah you right its called Canal ingame
VERY nice map and very complex. Draska I guest ? (Draska international building lol)