Impressions & Feedback

(INF3RN0) #21

Killing multiple good players relies on more than just aim though. It’s not as though it’s impossible to do because it does happen quite often.

(spookify) #22

Yes like having 2 of the 3 reloading

HA!

I thought about this statement for awhile and true its not just aim its also movement and handling recoil and spread plus Luck and using the map to your advantage.

However I still do not think its as easy as you make it out to be. I am talking No nades or abilities… Straight up shooting and killing 3 very good players in a row in rapid secession. That does not happen very often. Maybe Backraging shotgun or sniper but I’m talking SAW, Stoker, Phoenix or Skyhammer.

I never get that Im going to face rage this guy and then know the Milliseconds at which he is going to die, more onto the next person knowing my aim has to be perfect and then finally hitting the last guy. I sort of get that feel but its very scares.

(INF3RN0) #23

Maybe an ace in a scrim won’t happen that often on non-assaults, but I find 2-3 multikills happen quite often- and much more often in pugs. A big part of that is the friendly fire probably, otherwise picking good positioning and making smart plays adds up. Running straight into a group of people with equal or slightly lesser aim has never turned out well for anyone unless the aim discrepancy was huge. If you look at any competitive games involving players of equal skill, it’s not often that you’ll see anyone get more than 1-2 kills on average. In a DB pub on the other hand, getting a ton of multi-kills happens all the time on anything, and much more so if they are weak players- so that proves it’s possible, but good players will skew that outcome for obvious reasons. Dunno what you expect lol.

(spookify) #24

Sure go Fragger and get kills end of story.

I was mostly talking about either camping a corner and then exposing yourself OR backraging while you are exposed. Anyone can camp a corner and let people run into a crossfire and just sit there or catch people reloading or clean up especially with fragger.

I just dont think there is a huge separation between good, great and Unbelievable shots… You never see or hear people say “wow great shot”!!

Last patch I played one Match Made Game and I went fragger and I Aced their team 2 or 3 times. That being said I can see how gathers or cups a person can get 1, 2, or 3 kills but you have to be smart doing it.

I am talking about the dumb run in an gun (possible surprise) the other team and get 3 kills. I think the key is running and gunning…

I give up. I just ate 3 brownies and I want to go home. hahhaha

I blame the DB withdrawal!

(Szakalot) #25

I think this is a sign that the game is very well balanced actually.

The fact that you don’t get multikills on very good players often is a sign of less random combat than in other shooters. Closer indeed to that MOBA feel, It still doesn’t feel like you can’t kill enemies quickly, when getting perfect aim. This combination of teamwork>individual, and yet strong reliance on individual ability is probably DB’s biggest selling quality.

(sunshinefats) #26

They should use that as a tagline lol :smiley:

(spookify) #27

[QUOTE=Szakalot;520234]I think this is a sign that the game is very well balanced actually.

The fact that you don’t get multikills on very good players often is a sign of less random combat than in other shooters. Closer indeed to that MOBA feel, It still doesn’t feel like you can’t kill enemies quickly, when getting perfect aim. This combination of teamwork>individual, and yet strong reliance on individual ability is probably DB’s biggest selling quality.[/QUOTE]

Some really crappy players are spamming your toes and killing you though… Not good!

(Szakalot) #28

I am talking really really good players here. Rolling 2, 3 or 4 noobs is easy but still cumbersome because you feel like it should be going faster or you should have more control.

Which one is it then?

I’d rather game made 2v1 scenarios disadvantagous for the single player, even when of better skill. Good aim will get you nice and high k/d ratio, but you still can’t go in alone and expect to roll over 6 newbies. What do you want the game to be? teambased or CS:GO pub?

(spookify) #29

[QUOTE=Szakalot;520260]Which one is it then?

I’d rather game made 2v1 scenarios disadvantagous for the single player, even when of better skill. Good aim will get you nice and high k/d ratio, but you still can’t go in alone and expect to roll over 6 newbies. What do you want the game to be? teambased or CS:GO pub?[/QUOTE]

Team-based obviously!
F-CS:GO makes me want to punch a baby!

I will get back on topic of vs really really good player. I can see how shooting and 2v1’ing is sort of where we want to be. I can also see that using abilities can makes a doable 3v1… However I think where my disconnect is, is the non killer mercs…

Example #1)
SAW is not going to hold off 3 Fraggers

  • Now I know SD will say “he shouldnt!!” he’s a medic… I say F that… Unless he runs in or get directly hit by a nade I would think he could poke and hold them at bay for at lease a little while. Just that is not to case. Fraggers can just run in and not really be afraid of what or who is around a corner. If SD creates perks like I suggest here then maybe the medic has a chance to poke them down and kill 2 or all 3. I really do not like the idea of a killing class, scratch that I do but other classes should also be balanced enough to counter with smart play.

Example #2)
Any other class vs 3 Fraggers…
You see where I am going here? Fraggers nades in the right hands are a huge advantage. Then you add his OP gun…

All of my talk is directed at 5v5 comp or ranked style play. We need to start focusing this :smiley:

(Szakalot) #30

well, both your examples include fragger who is clearly OP in last build and will surely be nerfed (Silvanoshi mentioned it somewhere).

in the 2nd example If the fraggers are newbies then the single merc can still take them. Otherwise (equal skill) you would have very few occasions where 1v3 goes in favor of the lone player. I dont think its a bad thing. Yes there will be less epic clutch moments for frgmovies, but good flanking & crossfire will still produce multikills , just like in any ET/QW scrim.

Sounds to me like the present system where skill consistently transfers to the player’s effective DPS is EXACTLY what you want for a competitive format

(Floris) #31

I play a lot of Sawbonez, I don’t think he is really weak. Yes, when facing a Fragger of equal skill in a 1vs1 Sawbonez will lose most of the time, and facing 2 Fraggers will always never end up with Sawbonez being the last man standing. However when facing a less killed Fragger you can win 1vs1 with Sawbonez, when playing defensively you can win in a 1vs1 against an equally or even higher skilled Fragger, and in some cases you can even beat 2 Fraggers when surprising them. So I believe Sawbonez feels fine at this point. The scenario presented by spookify that Sawbonez can’t hold back three Fraggers is correct, but I think it is an unfair comparison. Of course, this all also counts to some extent for similar mercs to Fragger like Thunder and Arty.

The biggest problem I have with Sawbonez is that other mercs which should be at most equal and not better in combat, like Proxy and Aura, actually seem more suitable for combat in the most recent build.

(tokamak) #32

Mercs don’t have to be each others equals in duels. Duels are only supposed to be a small part of the game.

(Spacetime) #33

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;520218]Reasonable feedback as far as I can tell.

Biggest thing seasoned ET players will need to adapt to is the small hitboxes, moderate recoil, and gradual spread over time, making ADS a required skill at ranges and sometimes for finishing kills. It started out pretty badly, but now I find it completely manageable and skillful enough without making it that lotto. Reg is quite solid up to around 250+ping, but if your not hitting what you aim at it’s likely an issue with spread control as not all weapons should be LMB held at all ranges. Farming newbies makes reg feel amazing ofc, so I imagine MM will put most of the net/reg feelings to ease.[/QUOTE]

I’ve mostly been playing CS:GO with a bit of PS2/ArmA lately which is closer to this game when it comes down to the aiming than W:ET. The big difference however with these games is that the movement is way slower as well. I personally find the following the most appropriate (two opposites):

Slow movement > High recoil > High damage (Counter-strike)
Fast movement > No recoil > Low damage (Wolfenstein Enemy Territory)

This game has (somewhat random guess):

Fast movement > Moderate recoil > Moderate - High damage

I would love to be able to play around with the recoil, spread, movement-speed and damage parameters to test the differences myself but I don’t think we will get that possibility. At the moment the game feels smooth and well polished but not special / addicting enough because of these things I think.

[QUOTE=Silvanoshi;520219]Ok, this post is a bit of a beast, thanks for all of the feedback!

Let’s see if I can get some response out to most of the points in a quickfire manner.

  1. We love it, so you’re sod out of luck there :stuck_out_tongue:

  2. The design of the image for the pop-up will change, but the pop-up will continue to exist. What about it do you think feels cheap? The image of the detective?

  3. Front end performance in general will receive significant performance improvements

  4. A skip feature is certainly a possibility, and not unlikely

  5. Yup, team balance is definitely something that needs a little more love for public play. It’s not really going to be an issue for Ranked

  6. There are some tweaks to come for some of the maps, but this does take time. Spawn killing is certainly an area in which improvements can be made.

  7. From a competitive standpoint, the notion of having to make trade-offs can be an interesting one. While game updates will help to spurr on meta evolution, these kind of trade-offs can contribute to that as well :).

  8. We’ve had the recoil & spread both higher and lower than it currently is at the moment. While obviously it’s not going to be to everyone’s tastes (nothing ever will), it seem to be honing in on a balance that a larger proportion of you guys are happy with.

  9. There are some machine pistols in the game, yup. That probably wasn’t a bug.

  10. There’s still some balancing to be done, but we’re not entirely opposed to having certain 1hk’s in the game. Rewarding a Sniper Rifle headshot for example doesn’t seem entirely unfair.

  11. The options menu is set to receive more work, this doesn’t seem like an unreasonable request.

  12. It’s to think of the grenade launcher as an ability rather than a weapon…as Q is an ability button. We’re looking to have consistency with how the abilities operate. Perhaps Smooth can correct me but I believe the grenade launcher is currently working as intended in that regard.

  13. Dirty Bomb is a fast shooter (some people’ll argue it’s not…we’ve had that discussion before, if you want to raise it again, do it in another thread :P). Movement speeds have actually already been reduced before. We’re pretty happy with where they are now.

  14. We would certainly like to have Team/Clan functionality/ranking too :).

  15. Due to the nature of networking and latency, there’re always going to be instances of oddities with hit detection. With reasonable latency there shouldn’t really be any kind of consistent problem though. I do wonder if your concerns about spread and recoil are perhaps what’s leading you to believe that this is somewhat more of an issue that it is.

  16. Dirty Bomb is all about the Objectives man, who cares about your K/D :P? Nah, seriously though. There have been a few people mentioning that they’d like some way to wipe their stats. This is something that we may do at some stage, but it’s quite a low priority right now to be honest.

  17. Entirely likely further down the line, yup.

  18. While the game is set in London, different environmental conditions can certainly come into play with new maps.

  19. Dirty Bomb features MMMMAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYY voice actors. I assume you’re talking about the male objective VO though. Yeah, that’s placeholder VO from one of the devs, it hasn’t had a professional pass just yet.

  20. Requests noted, a number of people have requested the option to have this too.

  21. This could be interpreted in many different ways. Not knowing which one it’s difficult for me to answer specifically what you’re looking for…what I’ll say though, is that we will be looking to support a number of ways to capture video with Dirty Bomb

  22. Such is life, try not to flame too much :P. We could take a look at detaching the display name from Steam, but there are other much higher priority items to look at first.

  23. There’s some basic spectator functionality in place at the moment, but it’s not complete by any stretch of the imagination. We’ve some ridiculously in-depth feedback on this topic, which is awesome.

Again, thanks for the feedback, it’s absolutely fantastic. Glad you’re enjoying the game so far, with any luck I’ll run across you in-game :).[/QUOTE]

I wanted to reply to every point but I don’t want to occupy all of your time so I’ll just address the main points / important things.

  1. The popup itself feels cheap, regardless of the image being displayed. It’s a minor issue though, it’s not extremely important but I thought I’d point it out in case it would be possible for you guys to change that. But the anti-cheat wants some free advertisement as well probably.

  2. Beside the official maps, modding is what makes communities like this big as well so hopefully that will become available as well.

  3. Very true, that was also my original point. My concern however is that certain classes will counter other classes and thus making you feel gimped. In League of Legends (even though the counters aren’t that extreme in this game) you would have the banning phase for example to balance that out. We can wait and see how it plays out though, I’m not too worried about it but it’s just a heads up.

  4. I’ve mentioned this point to INF3RN0 in the quote above. I think it’s my highest important point.

  5. It doesn’t seem unfair indeed but it’s pretty hard to counter in open areas so you have extra limitations in the map design I think unless you want to limit the meta in certain maps by forcing people to play that class that is able to throw smoke for example. I’m not too worried about just the snipers alone though, it’s all these explosions / bombs. A relatively low amount of the fights I’ve had were based around gunfights. It’s been a lot of: Guy throws a grenade around the corner, guy throws a fire grenade in your face, Girl shoots a grenade in your face, You walk over a proxy mine around the corner, sticky bombs, air strikes etc.

  6. That would be awesome :)!

  7. That’s a shame to hear that, together with 8 it’s one of the most important things for me. Thank you for pointing that out though, hopefully you guys will change your mind about that later on.

  8. Instead of people being forced to record videos with Fraps, Bandicam, Dxtory, Shadowplay etc. it would be nice for people if they were able to record in-game. Not only just for the sake of saving disk space, it’s also extremely useful because they can use the in-game replay feature to shoot video from different angles. (I forgot to mention the replay feature).

  9. I’m actually pretty polite, I rarely call people names or throw nasty words towards them. It’s just that I prefer to play anon because reputation use to stress me out back in the day and it probably still does right now.

(Mustang) #34

[QUOTE=Spacetime;520332]This game has (somewhat random guess):
Fast movement > Moderate recoil > Moderate - High damage[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, love the movement speed, I don’t really notice the recoil at the moment so for me that aspect is fine, but the damage could do with a reduction, for all the reasons mentioned before.

Other than damage/TTK my other biggest wish is some more advanced/fun movement, I don’t even care if it’s super easy to pull off, it just gives more options, more unpredictability and more enjoyment, so in addition to longjump/walljump things like slide/rampjump/mantle/etc and increasing walljumps to 3 or 4 in a chain by default.

(sunshinefats) #35

I agree in the regard that I often feel forced down a certain path or limited in my movement. I am definitely in the camp of players that wants more freedom of movement both at a player level and throughout the maps. As it is now, the game becomes very predictable very quickly, which is not going to help it have any sort of longevity. Given that every other fps on the market seems to be moving in that direction(i.e. freedom of movement), I often question the logic behind the DB devs doing their utmost to put restrictions on players. But I’m still hopeful that they’ll surprise me with something good at some point.

(Szakalot) #36

Once trickjumping meta sets in this might be mitigated a little, but I do agree some other types of movement (mantle? only for walljumpable heights (first jump only - no mid-air mantling to avoid breaking the maps again) would be very welcome.

There is more to movement than first few weeks of gameplay would show, but not nearly enough for those spoiled by quake engines.

(tokamak) #37

Double. Sry.

(tokamak) #38

That African village in Slipgate is what I consider ideal geometry for infantry fighting. It’s exactly the right balance between dense and offering cover while being open enough to be unpredictable in your movement.

Dome comes closest but even there you’d need to take a huge sledgehammer to all these claustrophobic walls and corridors to get anywhere near Slipgate.

(Glottis-3D) #39

[QUOTE=tokamak;520690]That African village in Slipgate is what I consider ideal geometry for infantry fighting. It’s exactly the right balance between dense and offering cover while being open enough to be unpredictable in your movement.

Dome comes closest but even there you’d need to take a huge sledgehammer to all these claustrophobic walls and corridors to get anywhere near Slipgate.[/QUOTE]

yep that part of the map was a tense tactical fighting place.

(Szakalot) #40

thats not how i remember it, i remember it as ants running away from whatever vehicle happens to come into view.