if nader nades exploded on impact

(watsyurdeal) #41

[quote=“Gi.Am;20940”]Uhm I’m fairly sure that direct hits don’t work the way you think majesticClue.

As far as I understand it a direct hit nade simple deals normal splashdamage and adds bonus damage to the direct hit. Meaning sure one person gets additional damage (if aura or proxy even instant death) but the rest stays the same wether the nade landed direct or right in front of the group.

Also you can’t reliable hit someone directly you can’t see. Hitting someone that is around a corner directly involves luck and even if you land the nade under someones feet the damage bonus doesn’t apply. Making for weak damage on an almost perfect nade.

That makes naders damage output unreliable. Fraggers and Fletchers nades are better because they deal enough damage that you don’t have to land them 150% on point and in addition have have mechanics that makes them hard to avoid.

Naders nades on the other hand are weak and easy to avoid and on top of that is nader an average fighter that brings nothing else to the game.

[quote=“majesticClue;20897”]

She’s an assault class, just like Fragger, but unlike Fragger her ability is her biggest strength, Fragger has his health and his primary, so let’s make it so her nade launcher is a fearsome weapon. [/quote]

I totally agree with that statement. We just disagree in the way to achieve this.[/quote]

Well personally I really do not think making her an aoe or bombing class as opposed to a direct hit killing class is the way to go. It takes skill and in the right hands is more devastating than anything Fletcher or Fragger could do, and a lot more flexible as well.

Trying to make her more reliant on her splash and spreading it out more quickly is only going to make her easier to use, but ultimately not more effective unless it’s on a pub.

(CCP115) #42

Why can’t it just be like TF2 pipe launcher.

You miss, fuse time. Rollers don’t do much damage unless you sit right on top of them.
You hit, goes boom. Does consistent 100 damage.

(_Sniff_) #43

Nader does not suck. You are using her wrong. Here is a video with an Unstoppable and Ace streak.

Her impact damage does a lot but only works on unsuspecting enemies. However bouncing shots off of walls is way better at getting consistent damage. Also using them to clear areas of health stations while damaging those around them is a very helpful thing.

The Crotzni SMG and Pistol are also VERY strong weapons at range. Don’t under estimate them. Shoot once or twice with your grenades to soften them up and then finish with a gun.

In addition, Fletcher is easier to use because his weapons are almost exclusively good at close range. This makes sticky bomb throwing and sticking much easier than Nader’s grenades. This does not make him better. Just easier.

Nader has a much faster damage output at the sacrifice of you needing to be precise. Fletcher can not go at range. Nader can if you are good. The SMG is also awesome at long range.

Sniff, how does an SMG do good at range? Glad you asked, have another video!

(Alchemy) #44

any class could get godlikes vs those pubbers…

(Szakalot) #45

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;21011”][quote=“Gi.Am;20940”]Uhm I’m fairly sure that direct hits don’t work the way you think majesticClue.

As far as I understand it a direct hit nade simple deals normal splashdamage and adds bonus damage to the direct hit. Meaning sure one person gets additional damage (if aura or proxy even instant death) but the rest stays the same wether the nade landed direct or right in front of the group.

Also you can’t reliable hit someone directly you can’t see. Hitting someone that is around a corner directly involves luck and even if you land the nade under someones feet the damage bonus doesn’t apply. Making for weak damage on an almost perfect nade.

That makes naders damage output unreliable. Fraggers and Fletchers nades are better because they deal enough damage that you don’t have to land them 150% on point and in addition have have mechanics that makes them hard to avoid.

Naders nades on the other hand are weak and easy to avoid and on top of that is nader an average fighter that brings nothing else to the game.

[quote=“majesticClue;20897”]

She’s an assault class, just like Fragger, but unlike Fragger her ability is her biggest strength, Fragger has his health and his primary, so let’s make it so her nade launcher is a fearsome weapon. [/quote]

I totally agree with that statement. We just disagree in the way to achieve this.[/quote]

Well personally I really do not think making her an aoe or bombing class as opposed to a direct hit killing class is the way to go. It takes skill and in the right hands is more devastating than anything Fletcher or Fragger could do, and a lot more flexible as well.

Trying to make her more reliant on her splash and spreading it out more quickly is only going to make her easier to use, but ultimately not more effective unless it’s on a pub.[/quote]

Lol, more devastating than either fletcher or fragger? really? How often you fight against good players that will not let you land a single nade hit, while they mow you down with normal weapon fire?

You have around 2-3 nades to fire before getting shot down, unless at a long distance; but good luck getting a nade-hit then.

When Nader came out Ive been playing her nonstop, and while you can easily rotflstomp pubs, she was still not good enough for competition, esp. compared to the un-nerfed fragger.
Since fletcher patch, Nader sucks ball so hard, you might start questioning her merc background!

(_Sniff_) #46

Where’s your video of it?

(Szakalot) #47

Where’s your video of it?[/quote]

ur cool mate n all but no offense:

  • you look at the ground when running
  • you don’t run with your knife out
  • you didn’t turn bobbing off in options

These tell me, you are still just starting on your path to awesomeness.
I saw two very nice direct-hits; and most of the time your opponents weren’t even shooting at you : )

Not everyone has a beast PC to record in-game, I wouldn’t be able to play if i wanted to record anything

(_Sniff_) #48

I definitely agree that I’m not god’s gift to dirty bomb. I don’t like someone saying “Every class can do twice as good as you in the same situation.” without proof. Mostly because I want see how to do that. Who wouldn’t?

Although in regards to looking at the ground and most of my opponents not shooting at me. Both habits picked up from playing fletcher. Looking at the ground makes it easier to aim sticky bombs. It’s a bad habit for guns.
Flanking is also the best way to stick people with sticky bombs. I am very good at flanking, it’s my jam.
I wouldn’t call not getting a shot a bad habit though.

-edit- I turned off bobbing, thanks!

(Szakalot) #49

[quote=“Sniff;21060”]

Although in regards to looking at the ground and most of my opponents not shooting at me. Both habits picked up from playing fletcher. Looking at the ground makes it easier to aim sticky bombs. It’s a bad habit for guns.[/quote]

Aye, I actually have the same problem. Been playing almost only fletcher and aiming at ground + jump is the best way to get a sticky on top of someone. Bad habit for anything else though!

Flanking is also the best way to stick people with sticky bombs. I am very good at flanking, it’s my jam.

I think Fletcher is actually quite fine in direct combat, I have some random recording test, Ill post it up.

I wouldn’t call not getting a shot a bad habit though.

get a lol for that one!

-edit- I turned off bobbing, thanks!

enjoy 2x as many headshots!

(_Sniff_) #50

I would say aiming low is also useful for nader’s m32 in close combat. It has a slight rise in the arch before coming down. For close combat or bank shots it’s important to account for it.

I really think that banking nades and non direct hits are extremely effective with nader. Most of my kills in the first video were at least in part due to getting splash damage on them first. 17 of my 22 nades fired made their mark. Which maybe if I was proficient enough to direct hit them all the time would be a waste of time but I’m not that good. Most of my misses were from trying to get direct hits.

My arguement is nader doesn’t suck. People suck using nader. I’m definitely not the best but nader definitely doesn’t suck.

(Szakalot) #51

[quote=“Sniff;21068”]
I really think that banking nades and non direct hits are extremely effective with nader. Most of my kills in the first video were at least in part due to getting splash damage on them first. 17 of my 22 nades fired made their mark. Which maybe if I was proficient enough to direct hit them all the time would be a waste of time but I’m not that good. Most of my misses were from trying to get direct hits.

My arguement is nader doesn’t suck. People suck using nader. I’m definitely not the best but nader definitely doesn’t suck.[/quote]

My argument is: if people are good enough, you will almost never get any significant damage with indirect-fire nades, while being constantly shot at. Nader in its current form just scales badly with player skill. Its too hard/unlikely to score direct hits against dodging players, compared to alternatives.

(_Sniff_) #52

Don’t put yourself in a position where players are shooting at you. Or if you are in that position take out your smg. It’s great!

I mean you are completely right. It is hard. Which is why you shouldn’t do it. There are better ways to approach a situation than going head first.

If you flank or take a support role nader becomes a lot easier to do consistent damage which I find outweighs trying to go for direct shots or head on assaults.

(Szakalot) #53

[quote=“Sniff;21071”]Don’t put yourself in a position where players are shooting at you. Or if you are in that position take out your smg. It’s great!

I mean you are completely right. It is hard. Which is why you shouldn’t do it. There are better ways to approach a situation than going head first.

If you flank or take a support role nader becomes a lot easier to do consistent damage which I find outweighs trying to go for direct shots or head on assaults.[/quote]

thats fine for 8v8, but a 5v5 comp each player has to pull their weight, and I really don’t see how making a few splashes outweighs having another medic, or that very needed snipa; etc.

(_Sniff_) #54

Nader has the fastest respawning explosives with currently the highest rate of fire and ammo capacity. Destroying turrets, medic stations, ammo stations, spamming out enemies behind cover. I’d imagine that’s pretty important.

I’ll concede that I don’t know crap about competitive play. I just troll pubs. Is every merc released so far viable for competition? Are all 15+ mercs supposed to be viable for comp?

(Szakalot) #55

I’ve uploaded a small video just for you @Sniff : )

skip to 1:05 for the map. Sry for the stutters, my laptop can barely record it while playing.

(Glot) #56

direct hit explode at closer range is very much needed.

(Viquel) #57

[quote=“Szakalot;21042”]
Since fletcher patch, Nader sucks ball so hard, you might start questioning her merc background![/quote]

nice

(regalRibbon) #58

Well dang. :neutral:
So far Nader is my favorite merc.
Been playing her a bunch and doing fine.
I’m pretty happy with the rules and timing of the nades and launcher.
As well as my contributions to the team.
When things go bad, every martyrdom kill is like :kiss:

It’d be interesting to see some of the ideas mentioned here implemented as passive abilities or weapon variations to alter how the grenades and gun work.
Then maybe she could better fit other potential play styles.
But in her current state, she works great for me.

(regalRibbon) #59

Double post :expressionless:

(watsyurdeal) #60

@extravagentBypass

EXACTLY what I was wanting, thank you, I couldn’t find a good tf2 demo video to illustrate it.