Wait what, I thought they already did explode on impact with players, I did that last weekend. It was satisfying.
Nader is perfectly fine as is, I can do very well with her, and I suck at DB, so it’s a fair remark. Nader also has lots of spam, which is very powerful in itself.
Nades should go one of two ways:
edit: I love Nader direct hits gameplay but:
Since fletcher does the direct-hit nader job better than her, maybe she can be moved away from that role; and focus exclusively on the bouncy-bouncy nades exploding after delay.
Something like 50-100% increase in RoF would allow Nader to quickly cover an area with explosives, while also giving time to escape, pushing her into the AoE-denial role. High RoF would also make using nades in combat less punishing, as atm. you spam your nades while the enemies simply gun you down.
I’d be down with aoe choke point / area denial style. I’d say then that she needs more nades and a little more rof balanced by increased fuse time
Amount of nades is fine imo, just giving her high RoF would allow Nader to create an opening before the team comes in by flushing people out of particularly useful crossfire positions.
How about just making Nader an engineer aswell? Then she wouldn’t need any buffs to combat but she would be viable for the game.
How about we just make her launcher skill indexed?
Great if you can land direct hits, terrible if you just spam them.
How would u do that? Increase direct hit dmg and reduced splash damage / fuse based explosion dmg?
I’m confused by your title and this line. Naders nades do explode on impact. They simply have an arming time to keep people from using it non-stop point blank. Did you not know this before making the thread? The title/post remind me of the old, “What if Zelda was a girl?” stuff you’d see around the internet and in games.
I’m confused by your title and this line. Naders nades do explode on impact. They simply have an arming time to keep people from using it non-stop point blank. Did you not know this before making the thread? The title/post remind me of the old, “What if Zelda was a girl?” stuff you’d see around the internet and in games.[/quote]
nades only explode on impact with players, from a certain distance.
that is not hte same as nades exploding on impact.
It’s simple
Lower number of nades to 4 instead of 5, don’t know why they added that to begin with
Increase the speed of the projectiles to allow for more consistent hits, but not so fast that it’s as easy as hitscan, literally it’s only 15-20% increase that is needed
Increase damage of the nades so that it’s possible to 1 hit anything with 100 health or lower, but only on direct hits, aoe of nades should have harsh drop off. We’re trying to encourage accuracy not spam
Direct hit nades, if they kill, should also gib enemies as well, I mean come on, it’s a nade, it should gib you if it hits directly.
Change the recharge rate to 7.5 seconds per nade
I’m confused by your title and this line. Naders nades do explode on impact. They simply have an arming time to keep people from using it non-stop point blank. Did you not know this before making the thread? The title/post remind me of the old, “What if Zelda was a girl?” stuff you’d see around the internet and in games.[/quote]
nades only explode on impact with players, from a certain distance.
that is not hte same as nades exploding on impact.
[/quote]
I know this.
The wording of the post leads me to believe that the OP doesn’t actually know that fact or it would have been stated. Instead of talking about removing the arming time they instead act as if the grenades do not explode on impact after a set amount of time with a direct hit.
wholeheartly think going for direct impact is the wrong direction. here is why. Direct sure is alot of fun, I mean seeing that proxy instantly blow up is cool as hell. But consider a real 1 on 1. Lets say against Skyhammer.
Now lets consider that you managed to get out the second nade and Skyhammer died. You are almost dead. 2 nades short (almost half your arsenal) and the enemy still has 4 players more on the field (lets go with 5 vs 5 here).
Thats a pretty bad outcome for an assault. now sure we could increase the direct hit damage but short of buffing it so much that she oneshots Fragger she would never be as viable as him.
However the skill of a nadelauncher (and grenades in general) isn’t hitting someone directly.
They are all about indirect fire.
The skill is to shoot a nade across the Terminal plaza and get that thing trough the sniper window.
The skill is to land the nade where the enemy will be walking into when the nade blows.
The skill is bouncing the nade at two walls and then have it land close enough to the healing station.
The big problem is that skill doesn’t get rewarded.
Right now I can shoot a nade across the riverbed into the opening of the bridge on Trainyard and land the nade half a meter next to a Vasilli and that guy doesn’t even questions his choice in positioning.
Look at it in another way.
Everybody agrees that Fletcher right now is a better nader than nader is.
I agree take away Fletchers engineering skill give him better weapons.
Give Nader engineering skills take away marthyrdom and bam balancing finished propably. Will most likely not happen tho since Nader and Fletcher are pretty much visualy locked in their roles.
But ask yourself why is fletcher better. [list]
[] Because he can remote trigger his stickies ensuring people are close enough getting the full damage
[] His stickies overall deal more damage. A full nader salvo deals less damage then a full fletcher salvo which means he is also more useful in destroying EVs and secondaries
[/list]
Honestly the simple Fix for her is to make her nadespam feared. A nade must be the signal for a Vasilli to pack his shit. A nade must be the signal for everyone on the healingstation to get their Ass out imidiently. And that means Higher AOE Damage with less steep fall off.
Disclaimer* I’m fully aware that people would hate that. And that Pups with Nader class spam would be a nightmare. But imo thats the prize it takes to make her viable right now.
[quote=“Gi.Am;20885”]
Disclaimer* I’m fully aware that people would hate that. And that Pups with Nader class spam would be a nightmare. But imo thats the prize it takes to make her viable right now.[/quote]
Then maybe the solution isn’t to buff Nader but to nerf Fragger again? lol
Give her a Grenade launcher with Ammo. Personally I think Nader is weak because she constantly has to wait to have a full clip, which is where she has a fighting chance in direct combat because as everyone knows, you miss alot of directs. This would help her have a fighting chance at all time, but punish people that just spam.
Give her a stronger secondary
Increase projectile speed again with about 20%.
[quote=“Gi.Am;20885”]wholeheartly think going for direct impact is the wrong direction. here is why. Direct sure is alot of fun, I mean seeing that proxy instantly blow up is cool as hell. But consider a real 1 on 1. Lets say against Skyhammer.
Now lets consider that you managed to get out the second nade and Skyhammer died. You are almost dead. 2 nades short (almost half your arsenal) and the enemy still has 4 players more on the field (lets go with 5 vs 5 here).[/quote]
I’m sorry but I disagree completely, first of all if you’re using nades on a single person, you’re kinda asking for it. The idea is to use her nades to break up groups, the damage from the direct hit and the splash damage from said hits will spread, allowing you to take out small groups quite easily, that and if you peak out of cover instead of going out in the open where everyone can shoot you, you can easily decimate holds or pushes.
Spam isn’t going to make Nader better, because the nades and the aoe of explosives in general isn’t enough to make the nade launcher worth it. The direct nade direction is absolutely the way to go, as it makes her effective at killing the EV, and mopping up Auras, Proxies, anything with below 100 health, as well as taking down one or more people like I said before.
This is how I’ve been playing Nader, and simply spamming grenades does absolutely no good for your team. You need to direct your fire, even if it’s around corners, break up pushes. Honestly if directs did more damage and the launcher could gib I guarantee you’d see Nader be a lot more potent overall.
She’s an assault class, just like Fragger, but unlike Fragger her ability is her biggest strength, Fragger has his health and his primary, so let’s make it so her nade launcher is a fearsome weapon.
[quote=“majesticClue;20897”][quote=“Gi.Am;20885”]wholeheartly think going for direct impact is the wrong direction. here is why. Direct sure is alot of fun, I mean seeing that proxy instantly blow up is cool as hell. But consider a real 1 on 1. Lets say against Skyhammer.
Now lets consider that you managed to get out the second nade and Skyhammer died. You are almost dead. 2 nades short (almost half your arsenal) and the enemy still has 4 players more on the field (lets go with 5 vs 5 here).[/quote]
I’m sorry but I disagree completely, first of all if you’re using nades on a single person, you’re kinda asking for it. The idea is to use her nades to break up groups, the damage from the direct hit and the splash damage from said hits will spread, allowing you to take out small groups quite easily, that and if you peak out of cover instead of going out in the open where everyone can shoot you, you can easily decimate holds or pushes.
Spam isn’t going to make Nader better, because the nades and the aoe of explosives in general isn’t enough to make the nade launcher worth it. The direct nade direction is absolutely the way to go, as it makes her effective at killing the EV, and mopping up Auras, Proxies, anything with below 100 health, as well as taking down one or more people like I said before.
This is how I’ve been playing Nader, and simply spamming grenades does absolutely no good for your team. You need to direct your fire, even if it’s around corners, break up pushes. Honestly if directs did more damage and the launcher could gib I guarantee you’d see Nader be a lot more potent overall.
She’s an assault class, just like Fragger, but unlike Fragger her ability is her biggest strength, Fragger has his health and his primary, so let’s make it so her nade launcher is a fearsome weapon. [/quote]
What about high RoF spamming? The problem with spamming atm. is that the low RoF doesn’t actually deny much space, as it takes a while before all 5 nades go off. If the rate of fire was considerably faster, Nader could quickly make an entire room go boom; and everyone inside with it.
Then everyone would cry nerf because it’d be incredibly easy to abuse with no counter at all, it’s the Fragger and Cooked Nades argument all over again.
By going with the directs, you do offer counter play, DODGE, dodge her nades and take her out. The problem with Fragger was and imo still is the cooked nades, but that’s a different discussion entirely.
[quote=“majesticClue;20911”][quote=“Szakalot;20910”]
What about high RoF spamming? The problem with spamming atm. is that the low RoF doesn’t actually deny much space, as it takes a while before all 5 nades go off. If the rate of fire was considerably faster, Nader could quickly make an entire room go boom; and everyone inside with it.
[/quote]
Then everyone would cry nerf because it’d be incredibly easy to abuse with no counter at all, it’s the Fragger and Cooked Nades argument all over again.
By going with the directs, you do offer counter play, DODGE, dodge her nades and take her out. The problem with Fragger was and imo still is the cooked nades, but that’s a different discussion entirely.[/quote]
What I’m saying:
That is incredibly easy to counter, just move away from the spammed area.
Sitting in a molotov or on top of an airstrike has ‘no counter’ either, other than move away : AoE denial
[quote=“Szakalot;20912”][quote=“majesticClue;20911”][quote=“Szakalot;20910”]
What about high RoF spamming? The problem with spamming atm. is that the low RoF doesn’t actually deny much space, as it takes a while before all 5 nades go off. If the rate of fire was considerably faster, Nader could quickly make an entire room go boom; and everyone inside with it.
[/quote]
Then everyone would cry nerf because it’d be incredibly easy to abuse with no counter at all, it’s the Fragger and Cooked Nades argument all over again.
By going with the directs, you do offer counter play, DODGE, dodge her nades and take her out. The problem with Fragger was and imo still is the cooked nades, but that’s a different discussion entirely.[/quote]
What I’m saying:
That is incredibly easy to counter, just move away from the spammed area.
Sitting in a molotov or on top of an airstrike has ‘no counter’ either, other than move away : AoE denial[/quote]
But it also has a considerably longer cooldown compared to Nader’s ability, and it has a windup time as well.
The two abilities are quite different, and the biggest difference is the airstrike is situational, I do not want the Nade Launcher to be the same. Because I feel it will be more effective as a skill indexed tool rather than a utility that ultimately be outshined by the airstrike or Fragger’s nades.
Trying to make her fill a role other classes do won’t help her, giving her own unqie niche in her class set will make her stand out.
Not only that but what you are asking for is considerably dumbed down that even beginners can abuse, and that just poisons the game, not help it.
Uhm I’m fairly sure that direct hits don’t work the way you think majesticClue.
As far as I understand it a direct hit nade simple deals normal splashdamage and adds bonus damage to the direct hit. Meaning sure one person gets additional damage (if aura or proxy even instant death) but the rest stays the same wether the nade landed direct or right in front of the group.
Also you can’t reliable hit someone directly you can’t see. Hitting someone that is around a corner directly involves luck and even if you land the nade under someones feet the damage bonus doesn’t apply. Making for weak damage on an almost perfect nade.
That makes naders damage output unreliable. Fraggers and Fletchers nades are better because they deal enough damage that you don’t have to land them 150% on point and in addition have have mechanics that makes them hard to avoid.
Naders nades on the other hand are weak and easy to avoid and on top of that is nader an average fighter that brings nothing else to the game.
[quote=“majesticClue;20897”][quote=“Gi.Am;20885”]
She’s an assault class, just like Fragger, but unlike Fragger her ability is her biggest strength, Fragger has his health and his primary, so let’s make it so her nade launcher is a fearsome weapon. [/quote]
I totally agree with that statement. We just disagree in the way to achieve this.