I think Fletcher, Rhino, Nader, Vasili and Stoker are too powerful

[sneak1]

Fletcher - The sticky nades are pretty unfair. You have no way of getting out of these and when I play I see players who run out into an area with enemies and just lob a random sticky nade and hope it lands on someone and it almost always does. They don’t really need much skill it seems to hit people with these things. The problem with this is that there’s nothing you can do to avoid being exploded (1-hit) by the sticky nades. Yeah, I’ve been able to run around in a way that prevents them from being able to hit me but the problem is too often are low skilled players granted free kills only because of the sticky nade being the way it is. If there was some way to get the sticky nade off of you that would be great.

How-about a timer that you have only 1 second to start, if you hold your activate key for 2 seconds it will throw the nade away to the side somewhere? If you fail to press the key in 1 second you can no longer remove the sticky nade and if Fletcher detonates it then you go boom. If the fletcher detontates the sticky nadebefore the one second you can press the key, it explodes. If you release the activate key at any time during those 2 seconds the sticky nade automatically explodes, regardless of if the fletcher detonated it.

Rhino - He has too much defense and damage all at once. Yeah sure, he’s slow, but who cares as the maps aren’t that large? Even on the larger maps it doesn’t matter since spawnpoints change with the objective progression. I’ve also killed Rhino’s often but this doesn’t mean they’re balanced. They shouldn’t be so easy I think. Maybe if the weapon spread was greatly increased they would be more fair.

Nader - Fast spamming, long range, easy to bank/aim nades that have a decent explosion radius and alot of damage. People shoot these blindly into small areas and just spam it like crazy until they get free lotto kills. I feel like it’s more fun when kills are based of skill and skilled players are rewarded for being skilled (nod to the nice design of the mounted gun on the EV having a metal barrier but still being possible to kill the enemy in the gun if you aim well) rather than bad players being rewarded for spamming mouse1 arbitrarily. The Martydom ability explosion also has too large a range I think. I mostly avoid these fine now, but sometimes I feel like I’m so far away that I shouldn’t be hit by them. Maybe if there was a delay on the detonation time instead of instant it would be better. This way the dead player (who shouldn’t be attacking anyway, since he’s dead) has to predict the enemy player actions. This also provides for moments where the alive player tries to fake out the nader to waste his Martydom ability by walking up then walking away. This leaves the outcome of the fight in the hands of the more clever/reactive player.

Vasili - He just has too much HP. A slight HP reduction would make him a fair and balanced character. A sniper is meant to be covert and hide and snipe people. He seems to 1-shot everything (maybe not Rhino?) so his rifle is pretty strong. There’s nothing wrong with the power of his gun, but he shouldn’t be able to go face to face with an assault type character and have such an easy time and great chance to succeed solely based on his survivability.

Stoker - Gigantic radius fire nade that explodes pretty fast, alot of HP and alot of damage with his guns. You can’t have everything, right? I feel like a character like this would benefit from a slight damage reduction in the flames and a little bit less HP.

[gg2ez]

1. I’m not experienced enough with Fletcher to discuss.
2. “Too much defense and offense” can be obliterated with explosives, which alot of mercs use - Rhino’s Mini-Gun spin up sound is like a giant “hit me” sign. His Mini-Gun’s spread is crazy and suffers huge damage falloff. Doesn’t matter whether or not you think the maps aren’t big, point is he’s slower than all other mercs, making him an easier-to-track target.
3. You can only spam so much with the Grenade Launcher. There’s a limit of 5 Nades and they regen at a reasonable rate - they also have a nice amount of detonation time that lets you get a comfortable distance away. When you’re playing against even half-decent players, spamming M1 doesn’t get you jack sh*t. Martyrdom has a detonation time of 2 seconds (maybe it was 3?).
4. lmao.
5. This character wouldn’t “benefit” from any of those, that’s the point of a nerf. Stoker’s Molotov is a debatable subject right now, but seeing as a majority of the community is happy with it, I’m OK with it too. It’s pretty clear cut where not to go when you’re fighting Stoker, especially when there’s a brightly coloured smatter of flames on the ground that says “I’m dangerous”, that plus the buggy nature of the fire currently.

[sneak1]

[quote=“gg2ez;110698”][list=1]
[] I’m not experienced enough with Fletcher to discuss.
[] “Too much defense and offense” can be obliterated with explosives, which alot of mercs use - Rhino’s Mini-Gun spin up sound is like a giant “hit me” sign. His Mini-Gun’s spread is crazy and suffers huge damage falloff. Doesn’t matter whether or not you think the maps aren’t big, point is he’s slower than all other mercs, making him an easier-to-track target.
[] You can only spam so much with the Grenade Launcher. There’s a limit of 5 Nades and they regen at a reasonable rate - they also have a nice amount of detonation time that lets you get a comfortable distance away. When you’re playing against even half-decent players, spamming M1 doesn’t get you jack sht. Martyrdom has a detonation time of 2 seconds (maybe it was 3?).
[] lmao.
[] This character wouldn’t “benefit” from any of those, that’s the point of a nerf. Stoker’s Molotov is a debatable subject right now, but seeing as a majority of the community is happy with it, I’m OK with it too. It’s pretty clear cut where not to go when you’re fighting Stoker, especially when there’s a brightly coloured smatter of flames on the ground that says “I’m dangerous”, that plus the buggy nature of the fire currently.
[/list][/quote]

2. Actually I often kill Rhinos with proxy mines. I love my proxy.

3. I thought Marty was instant, never played the merc.

4. What’s funny?

5. He would benefit in a sense that he would be balanced like most of the characters in the game.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“sneak;110699”][quote=“gg2ez;110698”][list=1]
[] I’m not experienced enough with Fletcher to discuss.
[] “Too much defense and offense” can be obliterated with explosives, which alot of mercs use - Rhino’s Mini-Gun spin up sound is like a giant “hit me” sign. His Mini-Gun’s spread is crazy and suffers huge damage falloff. Doesn’t matter whether or not you think the maps aren’t big, point is he’s slower than all other mercs, making him an easier-to-track target.
[] You can only spam so much with the Grenade Launcher. There’s a limit of 5 Nades and they regen at a reasonable rate - they also have a nice amount of detonation time that lets you get a comfortable distance away. When you’re playing against even half-decent players, spamming M1 doesn’t get you jack sht. Martyrdom has a detonation time of 2 seconds (maybe it was 3?).
[] lmao.
[] This character wouldn’t “benefit” from any of those, that’s the point of a nerf. Stoker’s Molotov is a debatable subject right now, but seeing as a majority of the community is happy with it, I’m OK with it too. It’s pretty clear cut where not to go when you’re fighting Stoker, especially when there’s a brightly coloured smatter of flames on the ground that says “I’m dangerous”, that plus the buggy nature of the fire currently.
[/list][/quote]

2. Actually I often kill Rhinos with proxy mines. I love my proxy.

3. I thought Marty was instant, never played the merc.

4. What’s funny?

5. He would benefit in a sense that he would be balanced like most of the characters in the game.[/quote]

6. Why are you complaining then? He’s EZ kills for lot’s of mercs.

7. Yep, Marty has a fuse time

8. The fact that you think Vasilli’s HP is a problem in close range. His arsenal is best suited to long range fights - his Mac. Pistol is the the only reliable equipment he has for close range and it’s nowhere near as good as any other close-mid ranged guns. To put it simply, his HP is OK for being up close, but his weapons are not.

9. Stoker is already pretty balanced IMO. Flames are hard to predict (and super buggy), and the cooldown is pretty hefty.

I think you can get Sticky Bombs off you by killing the Fletcher that put them there.

[Aazhyd1]

You obviously dont have enough experience in this game. If these mercs were too good, everybody would play them. Yet other mercs are more popular.

[ostmustis]

imo sparks is the one thats too powerful.
maybe fletcher as well, he have a little too much power for a engi and could use a small increase on his sticky CD.

[Faraleth]

Fletcher - He has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game to play effectively. Slow travel time and detonation delay means you have to very carefully aim and time the throws, else they will be fairly useless. They also have a VERY small blast radius compared to Nader and Fragger’s nades.

Rhino - If you are trying to go 1v1 against a Rhino in a tight corridor, you’re asking for trouble. Trying picking him off from a distance, or use strategy to get around him (such as utilizing explosives or going 2v1 - he can’t shoot 2 of you at once). Several headshots and Rhino’s die very fast, and he can’t move fast at all when using the mini-gun, so you should be able to DPS him down fast from a short distance with headshots.

Nader - If you get blown up by Martyrdom, that’s your own fault. A long-jump is enough for you to jump away in time and you won’t take any damage - the skill even has an arming delay like her grenades. If the enemy team is foolish enough to crowd up together in a tight space and stand there while a Nader unloads her entire mag of nades, then… Again, they are just asking for trouble, lol.

Vassili - He has 100hp. The only characters below him are Sparks, Aura, Kira and Proxy. He’s also marginally slower than Phoenix who is also a 100hp character. He has almost no survivability at close range, which often results in him resorting to his revolver or machine-pistol, which are significantly worse than an assault class’s rifles and higher HP count of 120 or 150. If someone playing an assault is losing to a Vassili like this, the Vassili simply played much better and the kill was deserved.

Stoker - His molotov is a 40 second cooldown. While it might be good damage, it will be a long time until he can use it again. Skyhammer is in pretty much the same position as Stoker right now, as they are pretty similar in terms of weaponry, stats and performance. Skyhammer’s air-strike is arguably MORE powerful than Stoker’s molotov, in spite of it’s longer cooldown, due to both indoor and outdoor usage and incredibly high damage.

I’m surprised of all the mercs, you didn’t mention Fragger or Skyhammer to be OP. Thankfully, pretty much all the mercs are in a good place right now - none of them need major overhauls, but there could still be some more tweaks here-and-there to help some of them out.

[sneak1]

[quote=“gg2ez;110704”][quote=“sneak;110699”][quote=“gg2ez;110698”][list=1]
[] I’m not experienced enough with Fletcher to discuss.
[] “Too much defense and offense” can be obliterated with explosives, which alot of mercs use - Rhino’s Mini-Gun spin up sound is like a giant “hit me” sign. His Mini-Gun’s spread is crazy and suffers huge damage falloff. Doesn’t matter whether or not you think the maps aren’t big, point is he’s slower than all other mercs, making him an easier-to-track target.
[] You can only spam so much with the Grenade Launcher. There’s a limit of 5 Nades and they regen at a reasonable rate - they also have a nice amount of detonation time that lets you get a comfortable distance away. When you’re playing against even half-decent players, spamming M1 doesn’t get you jack sht. Martyrdom has a detonation time of 2 seconds (maybe it was 3?).
[] lmao.
[] This character wouldn’t “benefit” from any of those, that’s the point of a nerf. Stoker’s Molotov is a debatable subject right now, but seeing as a majority of the community is happy with it, I’m OK with it too. It’s pretty clear cut where not to go when you’re fighting Stoker, especially when there’s a brightly coloured smatter of flames on the ground that says “I’m dangerous”, that plus the buggy nature of the fire currently.
[/list][/quote]

2. Actually I often kill Rhinos with proxy mines. I love my proxy.

3. I thought Marty was instant, never played the merc.

4. What’s funny?

5. He would benefit in a sense that he would be balanced like most of the characters in the game.[/quote]

6. Why are you complaining then? He’s EZ kills for lot’s of mercs.

7. Yep, Marty has a fuse time

8. The fact that you think Vasilli’s HP is a problem in close range. His arsenal is best suited to long range fights - his Mac. Pistol is the the only reliable equipment he has for close range and it’s nowhere near as good as any other close-mid ranged guns. To put it simply, his HP is OK for being up close, but his weapons are not.

9. Stoker is already pretty balanced IMO. Flames are hard to predict (and super buggy), and the cooldown is pretty hefty.

I think you can get Sticky Bombs off you by killing the Fletcher that put them there. [/quote]

I tested Marty in offline mode and it’s a 1 second (if that) timer after hitting the activate key. Well yeah, that’s my point about Vasili. He’s still not the BEST CHOICE for close quarters combat but when it comes down to it I think he has too much health. When he’s at range he also has too much health because I’ll sit there nailing his head over and over and he’ll just go get health, but he only needs 1 hit on me to kill me.

You obviously dont have enough experience in this game. If these mercs were too good, everybody would play them. Yet other mercs are more popular.

People do mostly play these, along with some others. I’m almost level 9 so obviously I’ve been in quite a few games (41 hours of gameplay).

[quote=“Faraleth;110742”]Fletcher - He has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game to play effectively. Slow travel time and detonation delay means you have to very carefully aim and time the throws, else they will be fairly useless. They also have a VERY small blast radius compared to Nader and Fragger’s nades.

Rhino - If you are trying to go 1v1 against a Rhino in a tight corridor, you’re asking for trouble. Trying picking him off from a distance, or use strategy to get around him (such as utilizing explosives or going 2v1 - he can’t shoot 2 of you at once). Several headshots and Rhino’s die very fast, and he can’t move fast at all when using the mini-gun, so you should be able to DPS him down fast from a short distance with headshots.

Nader - If you get blown up by Martyrdom, that’s your own fault. A long-jump is enough for you to jump away in time and you won’t take any damage - the skill even has an arming delay like her grenades. If the enemy team is foolish enough to crowd up together in a tight space and stand there while a Nader unloads her entire mag of nades, then… Again, they are just asking for trouble, lol.

Vassili - He has 100hp. The only characters below him are Sparks, Aura, Kira and Proxy. He’s also marginally slower than Phoenix who is also a 100hp character. He has almost no survivability at close range, which often results in him resorting to his revolver or machine-pistol, which are significantly worse than an assault class’s rifles and higher HP count of 120 or 150. If someone playing an assault is losing to a Vassili like this, the Vassili simply played much better and the kill was deserved.

Stoker - His molotov is a 40 second cooldown. While it might be good damage, it will be a long time until he can use it again. Skyhammer is in pretty much the same position as Stoker right now, as they are pretty similar in terms of weaponry, stats and performance. Skyhammer’s air-strike is arguably MORE powerful than Stoker’s molotov, in spite of it’s longer cooldown, due to both indoor and outdoor usage and incredibly high damage.

I’m surprised of all the mercs, you didn’t mention Fragger or Skyhammer to be OP. Thankfully, pretty much all the mercs are in a good place right now - none of them need major overhauls, but there could still be some more tweaks here-and-there to help some of them out. :)[/quote]

Fletcher - I’ve already taken into consideration the skill ceiling. Whenever I see them it seems way too easy for them to just lob random sticky nades and stick them on enemy players, which is why I made that statement about being too easy.

Rhino - I use explosives (mainly proxy mines) and jump on walls and get around him quickly when close. Sometimes you don’t have the choice because it’s too late to escape and kill at a range. I’ve dealt several headshots to Rhinos and feel they don’t die fast enough (because of too much HP).

Nader - It’s not my own fault for getting blown up if the radius of explosion is too large to begin with. It would mean there is balancing necessary to make it a fair character. This was my whole premise to begin with. Saying that something “is the way it is” so it “has to be your fault” doesn’t remove the original concern of merc balance.

Vassili - Are there armor values or something then? It seems like he doesn’t take very much damage compared to other classes.

Stoker - Alright, 40 second cooldown changes the outlook on stoker’s molotov but the problem is the combined powers of the molotov, damage output and high HP. The package deal is what we have to look at here when discussing balance. You can’t just isolate one aspect of a merc and claim that they’re just fine how they are based on that one thing. Players have a chance to get out of the way of airstrikes, the fire nades instantly send a mass damage mass radius fire where thrown. In a tiny area this is especially noticeable.

When playing against skyhammer and fragger I never got this feeling a single time. All of these opinions are based on playing against the characters. People always claim you need to play a character before judging it’s balance but this isn’t true. Sure, it’s helpful, but you can judge their relative power just by having knowledge on how they work and playing against them. You compare them to other mercs and get an understanding after several incidents of what it’s like to play against them. I have no way of playing these besides those console commands and some of them don’t work with that and I also can’t play online, defeating some of the purpose. Since I’ve mostly wasted my credits on chests and since I’ve started the Proxy rotation has been on, I haven’t been able to test alot of these yet in online play. Maybe things will change in my head in the future. I think the next rotation is on Wednesday, right?

[gg2ez]

Nader - It’s not my own fault for getting blown up if the radius of explosion is too large to begin with. It would mean there is balancing necessary to make it a fair character. This was my whole premise to begin with. Saying that something “is the way it is” so it “has to be your fault” doesn’t remove the original concern of merc balance.

I know it’s not too polite to say so, but it really is - and everyone that complains about Martyrdom gets the same answer. “The way it is”, people actually know how to deal with Martyrdom and those people get only get Martyr’d very rarely - it’s really just as simple as walking away, sprint if you need to.

Well yeah, that’s my point about Vasili. He’s still not the BEST CHOICE for close quarters combat but when it comes down to it I think he has too much health. When he’s at range he also has too much health because I’ll sit there nailing his head over and over and he’ll just go get health, but he only needs 1 hit on me to kill me.

Matey, matey, matey. He’s not just “not the best choice for close combat”, he’s the worst choice for close combat. When he’s at range, you’re not supposed to be able to kill him with an SMG/AR/Shotgun, what’s the point of a “Sniper Rifle” if you could? You deal with a Vasilli by either fighting fire with fire or by closing the gap and dominating his inferior CC skills with your superior CC skills.

Stoker - Alright, 40 second cooldown changes the outlook on stoker’s molotov but the problem is the combined powers of the molotov, damage output and high HP. The package deal is what we have to look at here when discussing balance. You can’t just isolate one aspect of a merc and claim that they’re just fine how they are based on that one thing. Players have a chance to get out of the way of airstrikes, the fire nades instantly send a mass damage mass radius fire where thrown. In a tiny area this is especially noticeable.

When a Molotov explodes it creates smaller internal circles of fire that grows outward at an even pace, even Rhino can out run it - there is no “instant mass radius fire”. Stoker’s fire can be escaped after you’re caught in it, even if you’re only hanging on by a bit of HP, good luck escaping an Airstrike you’re in the dead center of. Again - The nature of the flames are also unpredictable to the thrower. Of course its noticeable in a small area, that’s the point of an area denial ability.

If you can consider the Molotov equal to or less than an Airstrike, he’s just Skyhammer but with a Molotov instead of an Airstrike. Same HP and weapons (except Stark and BR).

Fletcher - I’ve already taken into consideration the skill ceiling. Whenever I see them it seems way too easy for them to just lob random sticky nades and stick them on enemy players, which is why I made that statement about being too easy.

Ever consider it seems easy because you’re the victim? You’re forming your opinions from being on the receiving end of the mercs without any deep experience in using them.

[Haki]

Hey let’s just nerf every merc, maybe if they all suck, no one will have an advantage!

[Bojangles]

Fletcher doesn’t strike me as OP at all. He’s annoying as hell to fight against, and a good one will cause me grief all day no doubt. But I can not play him worth sh-t!

I cannot…
-Land a sticky on a single opponent. This is hard! Everybody keeps on moving around so much and those stickies don’t move quickly and everybody is shooting at me!

-Land a sticky on a group of opponents. Those Fletchers make it seem so easy to just pop around a corner and lob a sticky straight into your face. I pop around a corner and throw a sticky at the wall in front of me

-Get a date. With Fletcher’s foreign accent, big muscles, and overflowing confidence; I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have a problem with that at all. Yet when I play Fletcher, the only person taking it up the bum is me!

[Amerika]

If you’re having issues with Fletcher you need to learn to long jump and not move predictably. Also don’t chase. It’s never worth eating a setup sticky bomb (most of the time you can hear them being thrown). If sticky bombs are always hitting you it might be you being super predictable and not them being lucky or the stickies being too easy.

If you’re having issues with Rhino you need to turn your sound up/change your headphones because he’s pretty easy to hear if they are played passively. It’s the more mobile and aggressive ones you have to worry about. And in those cases never straight up fight him and switch to a merc with explosives if he’s an issue. Burst rifles I’ve found have been super helpful against him too since you can pop around a corner, he’ll stop spinning up then you swing back and 3 shot to the head and repeat once or twice more until dead. If he chases you he’s even easier to kill. He’s one of the easier to defeat mercs in the whole game when played right.

If you have issues with Nader, again, learn to long jump. Jumping at a Nader who is trying to hit you with a launcher is going to throw off their aim and you might close the distance before the arm time hits (each nade has a minimum arm time). Same for Martyrdom. It is not instant. If a Nader dies near you then you just long jump away. You won’t take a scratch of damage. So if you’re dying to this a lot you need to pay more attention to who you are fighting and get it burnt into your memory to long jump away immediately on death.

Vassili only has 100hp. He can no longer HS gib you with his bolts and the mp400 is good but it’s no replacement for a proper primary.

Stoker, IMO, is one of the more balanced mercs. His molotov is great in a lot of situations but it’s also really weird in how it works in a lot of areas. It’s also on a longish timer at 45 seconds so you can’t exactly spam it. And, again, it can typically be defeated by simply long jumping when you see them switch from a gun. As long as it does not hit you directly, which is pretty hard on moving targets, you’ll almost always be fine and you will be shooting them while they are switching back to a gun.

I’ve noticed most of the characters you feel are too powerful are, in fact, some of the ones that can be the most annoying to fight which isn’t the same thing as being OP. Once you learn how to fight them many suddenly stop being annoying and are some of the easier fights you’ll face in those situations.

[HoopleDoople]

With the exception of Stoker, every merc you have listed is phenomenal for stomping inferior* players due to abilities that are almost always available for use. These mercs are balanced and effective counterplay exists, but it is extremely difficult to successfully utilize the counterplay against a player who is better than you. When an equally skilled player is using these mercs they can still be annoying at times, but overall they feel pretty fair.

If anything needs to be done to address their stomp potential, it isn’t a nerf but rather better matchmaking.

*To clarify, I don’t necessarily mean bad players when I say inferior, just less skilled relative to the enemy. I consider myself a good player and I am significantly inferior to highly skilled players.

[Xan]

Well fletcher is in the next free rotation,you could try it before stating that he is EASY to use.And,if im not wrong they nerfed the martydom blast radius?Vassili has only 100hp,which is only higher than a few mercs and same as pheonix, he doesn’t have a good close quarter combat weapons except for the machine pistols,just be glad that he doesn’t has access to empire 9

[sneak1]

[quote=sneak]Nader - It’s not my own fault for getting blown up if the radius of explosion is too large to begin with. It would mean there is balancing necessary to make it a fair character. This was my whole premise to begin with. Saying that something “is the way it is” so it “has to be your fault” doesn’t remove the original concern of merc balance.

I know it’s not too polite to say so, but it really is - and everyone that complains about Martyrdom gets the same answer. “The way it is”, people actually know how to deal with Martyrdom and those people get only get Martyr’d very rarely - it’s really just as simple as walking away, sprint if you need to.[/quote]

Saying something is the way it is doesn’t automatically assert correctness. This still fails to make a valid argument.

[quote=“sneak;110746”]Well yeah, that’s my point about Vasili. He’s still not the BEST CHOICE for close quarters combat but when it comes down to it I think he has too much health. When he’s at range he also has too much health because I’ll sit there nailing his head over and over and he’ll just go get health, but he only needs 1 hit on me to kill me.

Matey, matey, matey. He’s not just “not the best choice for close combat”, he’s the worst choice for close combat. When he’s at range, you’re not supposed to be able to kill him with an SMG/AR/Shotgun, what’s the point of a “Sniper Rifle” if you could? You deal with a Vasilli by either fighting fire with fire or by closing the gap and dominating his inferior CC skills with your superior CC skills. [/quote]

I can see your point about not being able to kill him easily at range, but close-quarters combat is the issue and I figured it’s because of his HP.

[quote=sneak]Stoker - Alright, 40 second cooldown changes the outlook on stoker’s molotov but the problem is the combined powers of the molotov, damage output and high HP. The package deal is what we have to look at here when discussing balance. You can’t just isolate one aspect of a merc and claim that they’re just fine how they are based on that one thing. Players have a chance to get out of the way of airstrikes, the fire nades instantly send a mass damage mass radius fire where thrown. In a tiny area this is especially noticeable.

When a Molotov explodes it creates smaller internal circles of fire that grows outward at an even pace, even Rhino can out run it - there is no “instant mass radius fire”. Stoker’s fire can be escaped after you’re caught in it, even if you’re only hanging on by a bit of HP, good luck escaping an Airstrike you’re in the dead center of. Again - The nature of the flames are also unpredictable to the thrower. Of course its noticeable in a small area, that’s the point of an area denial ability.

If you can consider the Molotov equal to or less than an Airstrike, he’s just Skyhammer but with a Molotov instead of an Airstrike. Same HP and weapons (except Stark and BR).[/quote]

When you test it like in this video, yeah it’s a smaller circle that grows outward. When in actual combat though, it’s a different story. This thing is really strong. That circle feels instant when you’re already judging all the outcomes of your decisions and remembering player locations and focusing on your aim and movement. Things happen fast in the game and this thing seems way faster when playing.

[quote=sneak]Fletcher - I’ve already taken into consideration the skill ceiling. Whenever I see them it seems way too easy for them to just lob random sticky nades and stick them on enemy players, which is why I made that statement about being too easy.

Ever consider it seems easy because you’re the victim? You’re forming your opinions from being on the receiving end of the mercs without any deep experience in using them. [/quote]

All of these opinions are based on playing against the characters. People always claim you need to play a character before judging it’s balance but this isn’t true. Sure, it’s helpful, but you can judge their relative power just by having knowledge on how they work and playing against them. You compare them to other mercs and get an understanding after several incidents of what it’s like to play against them.

Hey let’s just nerf every merc, maybe if they all suck, no one will have an advantage!

Way to take something out of context and exaggerate. If all mercs sucked, none would suck and they’d be all equal. Flawed logic ftw.

[quote=“Bojangles;110796”]Fletcher doesn’t strike me as OP at all. He’s annoying as hell to fight against, and a good one will cause me grief all day no doubt. But I can not play him worth sh-t!

I cannot…
-Land a sticky on a single opponent. This is hard! Everybody keeps on moving around so much and those stickies don’t move quickly and everybody is shooting at me!

-Land a sticky on a group of opponents. Those Fletchers make it seem so easy to just pop around a corner and lob a sticky straight into your face. I pop around a corner and throw a sticky at the wall in front of me

-Get a date. With Fletcher’s foreign accent, big muscles, and overflowing confidence; I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have a problem with that at all. Yet when I play Fletcher, the only person taking it up the bum is me![/quote]

No offense intended, but maybe you’re just bad? Or is it possible that all these people I’m seeing in pubs are just all amazing hotshots who can lob these random sticky nades successfully attaching them to the enemy players?

– Have to make another post, it says "body is 2074 characters too long. –

[sneak1]

[quote=“Amerika;110797”]If you’re having issues with Fletcher you need to learn to long jump and not move predictably. Also don’t chase. It’s never worth eating a setup sticky bomb (most of the time you can hear them being thrown). If sticky bombs are always hitting you it might be you being super predictable and not them being lucky or the stickies being too easy.

If you’re having issues with Rhino you need to turn your sound up/change your headphones because he’s pretty easy to hear if they are played passively. It’s the more mobile and aggressive ones you have to worry about. And in those cases never straight up fight him and switch to a merc with explosives if he’s an issue. Burst rifles I’ve found have been super helpful against him too since you can pop around a corner, he’ll stop spinning up then you swing back and 3 shot to the head and repeat once or twice more until dead. If he chases you he’s even easier to kill. He’s one of the easier to defeat mercs in the whole game when played right.

If you have issues with Nader, again, learn to long jump. Jumping at a Nader who is trying to hit you with a launcher is going to throw off their aim and you might close the distance before the arm time hits (each nade has a minimum arm time). Same for Martyrdom. It is not instant. If a Nader dies near you then you just long jump away. You won’t take a scratch of damage. So if you’re dying to this a lot you need to pay more attention to who you are fighting and get it burnt into your memory to long jump away immediately on death.

Vassili only has 100hp. He can no longer HS gib you with his bolts and the mp400 is good but it’s no replacement for a proper primary.

Stoker, IMO, is one of the more balanced mercs. His molotov is great in a lot of situations but it’s also really weird in how it works in a lot of areas. It’s also on a longish timer at 45 seconds so you can’t exactly spam it. And, again, it can typically be defeated by simply long jumping when you see them switch from a gun. As long as it does not hit you directly, which is pretty hard on moving targets, you’ll almost always be fine and you will be shooting them while they are switching back to a gun.

I’ve noticed most of the characters you feel are too powerful are, in fact, some of the ones that can be the most annoying to fight which isn’t the same thing as being OP. Once you learn how to fight them many suddenly stop being annoying and are some of the easier fights you’ll face in those situations.[/quote]

Yeah, I’ve been researching the trickjumping in this game as of yesterday and have been practicing jumping all week occasionally throughout gameplay. This isn’t any kind of Unreal jumping I’ve ever seen and isn’t too similar to Quake either.

I can hear the Rhino just fine, that charge up of his minigun that he has ready to go so he can fire, right? Sennheiser PC360 (Xonar DG) / Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm (Yamaha RX-v463). The aggressive ones, now that you mention it are more of the issue for me. It could be that I also play aggressively and I’ve mainly been playing proxy.

I’ve been jumping towards naders lately actually and rushing them and have found this a useful tactic with a fast merc like proxy since they usually don’t want to kill themselves to kill me and adjusting the nade launcher aim with regards to me moving close to them is obviously going to be more difficult than a horizontal movement.

I’m still getting familiar with the mercs, as a new player. So sometimes while it’s easy to see they switched weapon I can’t always know right away what it means since I don’t always recognize the class immediately.

Thanks for the helpful post, I appreciate the avoidance of elitism and back-handed insults.

Well fletcher is in the next free rotation,you could try it before stating that he is EASY to use.And,if im not wrong they nerfed the martydom blast radius?Vassili has only 100hp,which is only higher than a few mercs and same as pheonix, he doesn’t have a good close quarter combat weapons except for the machine pistols,just be glad that he doesn’t has access to empire 9

Something being nerfed in the past doesn’t automatically mean it doesn’t need improvements. How do you know who’s next on rotation?

[gg2ez]

[quote=“gg2ez;110762”][quote=sneak]Nader - It’s not my own fault for getting blown up if the radius of explosion is too large to begin with. It would mean there is balancing necessary to make it a fair character. This was my whole premise to begin with. Saying that something “is the way it is” so it “has to be your fault” doesn’t remove the original concern of merc balance.

I know it’s not too polite to say so, but it really is - and everyone that complains about Martyrdom gets the same answer. “The way it is”, people actually know how to deal with Martyrdom and those people get only get Martyr’d very rarely - it’s really just as simple as walking away, sprint if you need to.[/quote]

Saying something is the way it is doesn’t automatically assert correctness. This still fails to make a valid argument.
[/quote]

You’re reading it wrong - I’m saying that as it is currently, people have no problem dealing with Martyrdom, thus your “not my fault” feelings are incorrect. I can’t even remember the last time I got Marty’d and many others can say the same thing.

[sneak1]

[quote=“sneak;110885”][quote=“gg2ez;110762”][quote=sneak]Nader - It’s not my own fault for getting blown up if the radius of explosion is too large to begin with. It would mean there is balancing necessary to make it a fair character. This was my whole premise to begin with. Saying that something “is the way it is” so it “has to be your fault” doesn’t remove the original concern of merc balance.

I know it’s not too polite to say so, but it really is - and everyone that complains about Martyrdom gets the same answer. “The way it is”, people actually know how to deal with Martyrdom and those people get only get Martyr’d very rarely - it’s really just as simple as walking away, sprint if you need to.[/quote]

Saying something is the way it is doesn’t automatically assert correctness. This still fails to make a valid argument.
[/quote]

You’re reading it wrong - I’m saying that as it is currently, people have no problem dealing with Martyrdom, thus your “not my fault” feelings are incorrect. I can’t even remember the last time I got Marty’d and many others can say the same thing. [/quote]

I’ve heard multiple people talk about it.

[Amerika]

[quote=“sneak;110886”][quote=“Amerika;110797”]If you’re having issues with Fletcher you need to learn to long jump and not move predictably. Also don’t chase. It’s never worth eating a setup sticky bomb (most of the time you can hear them being thrown). If sticky bombs are always hitting you it might be you being super predictable and not them being lucky or the stickies being too easy.

If you’re having issues with Rhino you need to turn your sound up/change your headphones because he’s pretty easy to hear if they are played passively. It’s the more mobile and aggressive ones you have to worry about. And in those cases never straight up fight him and switch to a merc with explosives if he’s an issue. Burst rifles I’ve found have been super helpful against him too since you can pop around a corner, he’ll stop spinning up then you swing back and 3 shot to the head and repeat once or twice more until dead. If he chases you he’s even easier to kill. He’s one of the easier to defeat mercs in the whole game when played right.

If you have issues with Nader, again, learn to long jump. Jumping at a Nader who is trying to hit you with a launcher is going to throw off their aim and you might close the distance before the arm time hits (each nade has a minimum arm time). Same for Martyrdom. It is not instant. If a Nader dies near you then you just long jump away. You won’t take a scratch of damage. So if you’re dying to this a lot you need to pay more attention to who you are fighting and get it burnt into your memory to long jump away immediately on death.

Vassili only has 100hp. He can no longer HS gib you with his bolts and the mp400 is good but it’s no replacement for a proper primary.

Stoker, IMO, is one of the more balanced mercs. His molotov is great in a lot of situations but it’s also really weird in how it works in a lot of areas. It’s also on a longish timer at 45 seconds so you can’t exactly spam it. And, again, it can typically be defeated by simply long jumping when you see them switch from a gun. As long as it does not hit you directly, which is pretty hard on moving targets, you’ll almost always be fine and you will be shooting them while they are switching back to a gun.

I’ve noticed most of the characters you feel are too powerful are, in fact, some of the ones that can be the most annoying to fight which isn’t the same thing as being OP. Once you learn how to fight them many suddenly stop being annoying and are some of the easier fights you’ll face in those situations.[/quote]

Yeah, I’ve been researching the trickjumping in this game as of yesterday and have been practicing jumping all week occasionally throughout gameplay. This isn’t any kind of Unreal jumping I’ve ever seen and isn’t too similar to Quake either.

I can hear the Rhino just fine, that charge up of his minigun that he has ready to go so he can fire, right? Sennheiser PC360 (Xonar DG) / Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm (Yamaha RX-v463). The aggressive ones, now that you mention it are more of the issue for me. It could be that I also play aggressively and I’ve mainly been playing proxy.

I’ve been jumping towards naders lately actually and rushing them and have found this a useful tactic with a fast merc like proxy since they usually don’t want to kill themselves to kill me and adjusting the nade launcher aim with regards to me moving close to them is obviously going to be more difficult than a horizontal movement.

I’m still getting familiar with the mercs, as a new player. So sometimes while it’s easy to see they switched weapon I can’t always know right away what it means since I don’t always recognize the class immediately.

Thanks for the helpful post, I appreciate the avoidance of elitism and back-handed insults.

Well fletcher is in the next free rotation,you could try it before stating that he is EASY to use.And,if im not wrong they nerfed the martydom blast radius?Vassili has only 100hp,which is only higher than a few mercs and same as pheonix, he doesn’t have a good close quarter combat weapons except for the machine pistols,just be glad that he doesn’t has access to empire 9

Something being nerfed in the past doesn’t automatically mean it doesn’t need improvements. How do you know who’s next on rotation?
[/quote]

No problem man. We’re all here to try and get better and talking about how things work improves play.

I’m from Q3 and still play to this day so I know a thing or two about movement in games And yeah, DB has interesting movement that is pretty unique to DB. Long jumping, long jumping off of walls and some of the weird physics/trick jumps you can do are pretty interesting and require some practice.

Yeah, Rhino can right click and spin up the minigun so it will fire faster but you might as well a giant Vegas-style neon sign that says, “grenade here” if you do this on pubs. He’s not bad against inexperienced players and played in a mobile fashion but he won’t excel compared to other mercs if you’re pretty good at the game. If you play him on a pub I highly suggest the card with N2O (there is only one) as that allows you to be heavily mobile without giving away your position. He’s got some uses in 5v5 matches though in some positions where you don’t care if other team knows where you are and you won’t get overwhelmed like you would in a larger pub that allows multiple of the same merc per team.

Yeah, jumping at Nader’s works. You’ll figure out the good Nader’s pretty quickly who will already be shooting you with their SMG rather than try to get lucky. But you’ll catch even those guys fairly often.

It just takes time and it sounds like you’re on the right path. Getting knowlegable about the game and reading/watching how more experienced players do things catches a person up infinitely faster than somebody who just goes out and bangs their head against a wall.

[3N1GM4]

You claim your lvl 9 and have plenty of games, you’ve never played any of the mercs you claim are op, and you call some one bad who has first hand experience. Lets look in the mirror.

Fletcher is plenty fair, his weapons are all close range, don’t go close to him.

If you get blown up by nader, thats your own fault. Her nades are slow lobbing balls that take skill to land a direct hit. If you run into an area that is going “bang” its your own fault. If you try to knife gib her and she martyrs you, its your own fault. See a trend?

Heres your main problem with all of these mercs: You’re playing proxy…