I played Brink at quakecon, some concerns

[Senethro]

Maybe you think you’re not worth it - that’s your choice, but I think I am worth of flexible controls and binding of them. Especially because I will possibly be paying money for the game. It doesn’t take tons of hours of extra modeling like if they wanted to implement female models - it will certainly take much less effort to implement this, especially because both methods have already been implemented in ETQW and Wolf so it is just a matter of combining both grenade selection methods using new cvars imho.

Yeah, you’re paying money but you’re going to pay anyway. The potential extra money won’t cover programmer hours and extra QA.

[H0RSE]

I don’t have links but I was under the impression it was broken up into several smaller health bars which could regen within themselves but medics needed to heal you to the next.

From what I’ve seen, your main, default health bar, is one long bar - this will regen to full. What you need a Medic for, are any ‘pips’ after that, like from health buffs and such.

[Chris2]

Any word on if the game is fun yet or not from all these people who proclaim they have played it?

[H0RSE]

Any word on if the game is fun yet or not from all these people who proclaim they have played it?

It’s funny you ask that, since “fun” and “what the comp community wants” can to be 2 very different things.

[Voxie]

From what I’ve seen, your main, default health bar, is one long bar - this will regen to full. What you need a Medic for, are any ‘pips’ after that, like from health buffs and such.

That’s the impression I’ve got as well. I’d much prefer the “default bar” to not regen all the way either, to make health regen less effective and put more emphasis on medics. This whole “cover behind a wall for three to five seconds then re-engage with no penalty what-so-ever” gameplay mechanic is stupid and lazy, in my opinion.

edit: Honestly, stop trolling with the tags already. They’re not for personal insults, you imbeciles.
edit2: Tags are gone, nice.

[DarkangelUK]

[QUOTE=AnthonyDa;237354]Did you actually tried the scripted posted ? (iirc it’s on the dedicated grenade thead)
Because it’s not really working since you can’t bind “_action” bind with others stuff at the same time. (something like this, well it’s not possible at the end).[/QUOTE]

You can’t script _commands (e.g. bind a “_attack; _Weapon 4; _moveup”), you can do rebind scripts though like the script I pasted since it’s not actioning the command.

[coolstory]

It’s funny you ask that, since “fun” and “what the comp community wants” can to be 2 very different things.

Lol.

I dont know about you but a game’s fun when its balanced. I think thats pretty much what every comp. community wants.

[shirosae]

You’ve made assumptions based on footage from Xbox controllers. Wait and see.

Of course I have, because footage from xbox controllers is all there is to go on. The info hasn’t been released, because if it is and it changes I’ll commit genocide or worse - disagree with them. Why else would I be asking for footage with mouse+kb?

Did it work? Trying the Press-F-To-Do-Everything could be temperamental in ETQW at the very least. Could this be why there was a change?

Usually, yeah. Backstabs were a bit clumsy, but preselecting tools and then using worked for stuff on static targets. Medic revives were mouse1 more often than not, just for speed cause of how I hold my mouse.

Anyway, you’re conflating control options with implementation here. The use triggering was sometimes a bit dodgy. I’ve got no problems whatsoever with SD adding a slight magnet or whatever they’ve done to make their Brink use stuff actually work. What I liked was the way ETQW offered both the individual selection and the use-key-for-everything approach.

You’re making assumptions that restricting everything to work only with the use key in Brink somehow fixes ETQW’s dodgy use key implementation. You haven’t provided evidence that a weaponbank is incompatible with whatever trick they’ve used to make Brink’s use less flakey than ETQW’s.

[QUOTE=Senethro;237361]You don’t have a clue (and I’m not meaning this in an insulting way, but you’re not on the development team) but you’ve decided SD did it wrong, whatever it was.

Assumption 1: That it was a needless removal.
Assumption 2: That Brink’s design needs pre-selected tools and that the new system can’t be implemented well.[/quote]

ORLY

The problem is now that the code changes that had to be done to our inventory management system to make the one-button grenade approach work means it’s unfortunately not an easy-peasy task to put in a traditional PC version in addition to the new system. Time is running short, and our gameplay programmers are stretched really tight, so I’m afraid this can’t go on their list of things to do to support both the new and the old system.

1: They wrote the system with the unibutton system in mind, and didn’t consider the weapon bank important enough to make it work from the start. If they had considered it important they would have. It’s now too late. I don’t consider an inventory system that can do both unibutton and weapon banks beyond their ability, given that they already did it in ETQW.

I realise that I’m only taking Rahdo’s word as honest here, but I don’t think this is much of a stretch.

2: Stop telling me that I’m claiming Brink needs preselection. I’m saying that Brink would be a better game for it. These are different things.

I don’t have links but I was under the impression it was broken up into several smaller health bars which could regen within themselves but medics needed to heal you to the next.

So it’s like Resistance, then. Less dumb than all out regen.

Yeah, I know how ugly it was. It was bad because it was poorly implemented as well as design choices I’m not a big fan of. Its not an argument against something unrelated and that hasn’t been poorly implemented yet.

It’s an item on the list of things I think are important in Brink and will be looking for in a demo. I realise you were just joking when you asked for the list, but I thought I’d at least give it a proper reply.

Is it fun? I’m kind of tired of it. I’d rather not win at a game because I knew to turn my FPS to 333 or the next lowest magic number and how to exploit a decades old bug. Its obscure, unintuitive and just looks to me like veterans want a stick to beat newcomers to the game with. With a better advanced movement system available, why have another? Theres nothing necessarily positive about redundancy.

Well, I find it fun. Games without the additional movement options feel empty and soulless, like trying to play UT after spending time on Q3. You don’t like it, that’s fine. I’m not suggesting that it work like Q3 where you need to do it. Just a subtle additional bonus like ETQW is all I want.

I’m happy not being a huge vehicle whore in ETQW. That doesn’t mean I think it should be removed until the only thing left is an entity derived entirely on my tastes.

[QUOTE=Senethro;237361]You made a joke but TF2 and BF1943 have similar features. And I use TF2s.

How you feeling? A bit through the looking glass?[/quote]

You like different games from me. Maybe I should adjust my tastes, so there’s no diversity in gamesplayers?

[QUOTE=Senethro;237361]Circle jumping didn’t remain fun for me.

There, thats my anecdote countering your anecdote. What else you got?[/quote]

Who died and made you the arbiter of all fun? So you don’t like circle jumping, therefore it shouldn’t be in Brink? And auto regen doesn’t bother you, therefore it can go in?

The most looking glass thing about this is that I genuinely accept that I’m not the singular target audience for Brink. I’m not trying to make you play the way I want to. I don’t want to make Tokamak play with mid-map bodytype swaps. I don’t want to force the casual players to play maps out of sequence. I don’t want to force the Justice League to play promod.

What I want is a system that offers options that satisfy as many as possible without imposing stuff as much as possible. I find it incomprehensible that you don’t seem to understand this.

I’m sorry, I’m going to have to consult the SDJL manifesto for the party line on this subject.

I wouldn’t bother; it was a line to avoid my whole ‘give people options’ approach.

I remember this. Been no mention of it in a while. Hope it hasn’t been removed.

A few SD people have said that they considered most people on the forum to be hardcore mode fodder; I inferred that the hardcore stuff was an important concern for them. More info would be nice, as always.

Its easy to understand why they don’t. Given that the hysteria over the number of buttons required to throw a grenade, imagine they release some info and later change their minds.

Yeah, because if you’re going to make the fact that you’ve been developing with console controls in mind a huge part of your hype, and then you do this unibutton stuff like Wolf2009 and some of your potential customers recoil in horror, that last thing you want to do is maybe mention the actual benefits that your system provides.

[coolstory]

Is it really that hard for SD to release a mb+keyboard footage of someone running around?

[DarkangelUK]

I think all media released to the public goes through Bethesda at their request.

[murka]

Really don’t see the need. With tools going into fixed animations and medics throwing their revive needles I think the game has changed such that those who think pre-selection is necessary are wrong.

Sorry, but you’re wrong on this one. Pre-selecting does give at least 0.5sec bonus on some situations(turning towards obj, jumping from place to obj where you can’t see it before hitting it etc.). And those 0.5sec multiplied by players teaming up on one obj… massive difference.

Ofc lets not rant about the obvious stuff. Mods will come to make the game just fine.

[Voxie]

[QUOTE=murka;237394]Sorry, but you’re wrong on this one. Pre-selecting does give at least 0.5sec bonus on some situations(turning towards obj, jumping from place to obj where you can’t see it before hitting it etc.). And those 0.5sec multiplied by players teaming up on one obj… massive difference.

Ofc lets not rant about the obvious stuff. Mods will come to make the game just fine.[/QUOTE]

It gives a half a second advantage with the implementation found in Enemy Territory, not in Brink. The actions won’t be any faster even if they add weapon banks to the game. Please stop looking at this game with the prejudice that all restrictions from their previous games will still be present.

Is that enough italics to make my point clear?

[INF3RN0]

How many people in this thread were @ QCon again???

[Apples]

How many people in this thread were @ QCon again???

I guess one…

It gives a half a second advantage with the implementation found in Enemy Territory, not in Brink. The actions won’t be any faster even if they add weapon banks to the game.

Any facts to back up that they wont be any faster with a weapon bank?

… Once again we are fighting against windmills ala don quijote here…

Thats why we require more gameplay footage, and more mechanics description, before any real comment or “I already preordered Brink X4 cuz ya know, its hype ;)” stuff. If the game is fine, well, i’ll be the first to bit my tongue and say LOUDLY that the game is fine, if the game isnt cuz of all the problem we mentionned for 6 monthes… well, I wont be the one to cry.

Peace, apple over and out…

[Cankor]

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;237253]Why would it throw it? You just said it yourself, it’s a ‘rebind’ script, since when did executing a bind command run the action?

set nadearmed “bind G $nadedisarmed; bind mouse1 _weapon3; addchatline ‘Grenade Equipped’”
set nadedisarmed “bind G $nadearmed; bind mouse1 _attack; addchatline ‘Weapon Equipped’”
bind G $nadearmed

In both cases G is simply set to tell mouse1 what it’s function is, nothing even partains to G having the nade function placed on it.[/QUOTE]

OK, my mistake :o didn’t read it closely enough.

Wait, there’s no /kill??? Why cause people self kill in combat? Can’t be a server variable then?

SD has said the game will have spawn waves. SD supports comp. How can there be no /kill?? What am I missing here?

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=Cankor;237422]OK, my mistake :o didn’t read it closely enough.

Wait, there’s no /kill??? Why cause people self kill in combat? Can’t be a server variable then?

SD has said the game will have spawn waves. SD supports comp. How can there be no /kill?? What am I missing here?[/QUOTE]

/kill is a crucial part of the game in general (though its importance tends to only be acknowledged in comp). I don’t think that it will be removed, but it may be tweaked so that you only respawn at the exact time of the following spawn wave (just to please those who need to get kills to feel good).

[Rahdo]

Hey SplashDamage guys/girls, Brink is going to be playable at PAX right? I look forward to a more person-to-person chat with you at PAX. I remember last year it was tough to approach you at Quakecon b/c your booth was so huge and you were the main attraction, but at PAX it was easier b/c I didn’t have to fight 8,000 people who were all there just to see Brink like @ Quakecon.

Hey everybody. Yeah, three of us will be at PAX, and we’re always up for a chat with anyone who’s passionate about the game. And if anyone on the boards is in Cologne at Gamescom, I’ll be at the show today and tomorrow. Message me and will try to arrange a meet over some pig knuckle und eis!

[Cankor]

/kill is a crucial part of the game in general (though its importance tends to only be acknowledged in comp). I don’t think that it will be removed, but it may be tweaked so that you only respawn at the exact time of the following spawn wave (just to please those who need to get kills to feel good).

That would work.

[Voxie]

[Quoting this: The actions won’t be any faster even if they add weapon banks to the game]

Any facts to back up that they wont be any faster with a weapon bank?

… Once again we are fighting against windmills ala don quijote here…

Yes, partly. Some of it is just logical reasoning (which are backed up by statements from Rahdo – see next paragraph). I really should have been more clear about that (something I’m usually very picky about, to not spread any possibly false info). Sorry for that. Hopefully this thorough explanation makes up for it.

My thought-process is something like this: going by this statement by Rahdo, it’s very likely that if Splash Damage would add weapon banks it would simply spread out the n different actions to n different keys (keys which would probably rebind your fire button to a specific action). If buff your teammate is bound to X, then you can press X at a downed teammate all you want without triggering a revive. Would this be faster than just pressing the universal key? Only if they code it so that the equipment can be pre-selected before triggering the action. But, and Rahdo’s stated this, it’s too much work for it to be feasible to implement such a big change to the item backend.
Granted, the post I’m basing this on regards the dedicated nade button, but the principle still stands for the use button.

So, because the mechanics won’t be changed to the equipment being pre-selected before triggering the action, the animation and by extension the time required wouldn’t be any shorter if you use the context-sensitive key or these hypothetical specific keys.

Ergo, the actions won’t be any faster even if they add weapon banks to the game.

[AnthonyDa]

/kill is a crucial part of the game in general (though its importance tends to only be acknowledged in comp). I don’t think that it will be removed, but it may be tweaked so that you only respawn at the exact time of the following spawn wave (just to please those who need to get kills to feel good).

I think that it will be removed and that you’ll have to use that cyanate pill perk to kill yourself (which will only be available when you’ll be incap to avoid the interrogation).