Hunter, your impressions

(ARandomLugia) #1

So hunter is out finaly, time to give him some attention instead of phantom (he already has enough attention).

So after playing him, I can say he is fun to play as, has a serious skill floor, curve and ceiling and not stupidly broken. His weapons feel nice, maybe the new SMG a bit more recoil? It is almost a laser gun with heavy damage it feels like, but than again 18 rounds in the clip ain’t alot. THe pistol, well dont use it alot. nice, I guess? More of a weapon for finishing ppl off on low hp or mine sweeping when you can’t be asked to use your EMP on the mine(s).

So, what do you all think? Broken? Underpowered? Or just right in your opinion?

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #2

The rate of fire for the crossbow and its accuracy, assuming the player can track and leads their target for long-ranged shots, is a little obnoxious presently and could use some tuning. The weapon, as it currently stands, is like a Grandeur without the need to control your spread; which can in a way be considered a bit broken in his current state. When you take into account the lack of an ammo limitation and the way the crossbow handles, it is fair to argue it could use some tweaks to bring him more on par with the other Snipers. Other than that I feel he’s just about right, in need of some tweaks in a few areas, but overall just offers a slight bit of extra utility over the other snipers; making him an addition of variety into the recon class roster, rather than a must-pick choice.

(martha_smith) #3

hunter isn’t that good, it’s not what was expected , i cant even see his arrows when thrown ,

hunter needs a lot of improvement

his crossbow feels like a rifle ,

more improvements of physics are required in hunter…

and his face should be more better (charming)

(Stokes1) #4

All it did was add another sniper to the game, so now you have aimee, vassili and hunter that really do nothing for the team

(woodchip) #5

It seems a little too easy to land the crossbow considering its rate of fire. It is pretty rare facing a hunter at medium range and not getting at least chunked. And Hunter’s are scoring more 1 hit headshots than you would expect from snipers of equal skill, which is especially concerning when you see it from players with 100 hours on Hitscan Sniper who are already as effective at Hanzo after 3. Hunter’s seem to be getting less kills overall than similarly skilled snipers tho, so who knows.

Which I think is OK to a degree because Hunter doesn’t provide as much Recon utility and his other soft factors are weak. It just seems like very slightly too much.

Especially bodyshotting for 80 damage. That should go. If it was too brutal to have a Grandeur 1 tap Aura to the head then why introduce something like this?

(Your worst knifemare.) #6

I love having Hunter in game and not because I’m one of the few people who enjoy Guardian and also use the shield to get free xp off of him.

(ARandomLugia) #7

@Stokes1 said:
All it did was add another sniper to the game, so now you have aimee, vassili and hunter that really do nothing for the team

EMP bolt, learn to use it and you can give people a serious surprise. It seems to ignore both walls and floors (Not that supprising from a technical standpoint but still)

@Lord_Coctus said:
I love having Hunter in game and not because I’m one of the few people who enjoy Guardian and also use the shield to get free xp off of him.

insert wesmart.png here
Smart thinking, keep going :3

(Eox) #8

Serious skill floor ? Would be really true if darts wouldn’t have the width of a log.

He’s really fun, but that hitbox issue alone makes me feel sorry for the people I fought against.

(pumpkinmeerkat) #9

Hunter and arrows need a bit more feedback on the receiving end. It’s difficult to tell if Hunter is scoped or when arrows are being spammed at an angle. The smoke trail is a bit distracting and seems to end abruptly at a certain draw distance. Could smoke trail be toned down but also show for other players in server? The effect looks really cool up close when enemies die to headshots and smoke trail follows ragdoll. Nice touch. Also is he supposed to say the “enemy tagged” voiceline with every shot or just hits? Should be just hits. Charge time for crossbow needs to be increased or max damage reduced. The ROF for max damage shots seems too high currently.

@stayfreshshoe arrow hit box? Competitive shooter? This should be adjusted ASAP.

(Chris Mullins) #10

@pumpkinmeerkat Will pass on to the dev team :slight_smile: Thanks for the poke!

(bgyoshi) #11

Copypasta from another thread I posted in

After playing Hunter for the weekend I’ve determined:

The crossbow is strong when charged but really difficult to hit with. The game is just too fast to really use projectile prediction weapons. Not saying it can’t be done, it’s just difficult. I got used to the drop over distance pretty quick though. He’s also a pretty bad spotter, and using the crossbow without charging your shots is pointless.

His primary is really strong, stronger than most primaries or so it feels. Only problem is it only has 18 shots, so unless you’re hitting 60%+ accuracy, you’re going to need to reload before you kill a full HP merc. It’s also a close - mid range weapon, which makes sense. It’s useless at range but you’re supposed to use the crossbow obviously.

His secondary is nothing special. It looks neat, sounds neat, but it’s just like any other pistol.

The hit recognition on his melee is god awful.

His emp isn’t very useful in most situations. It flat out shuts off Bushy and Turtle but that’s really it. I would like it a lot more if it had a sustained EMP effect; many times I found myself trying to counter Fletchers and Proxies. It’d be really nice when you’re going up against a team of them and you could dunk an EMP bolt down and effectively temporarily shut off incoming mines and stickies. As it is now, unless the mine or sticky is already on the ground when the EMP goes off, it won’t be disabled.

Changes:

Give him two special arrows; EMP bolt and spot bolt. Spotting with Hunter is pretty worthless; it’s hard enough to hit players that it makes him an unreliable spotter. However, shooting a bolt into the wall to reveal enemies in the area would be nice. I don’t mean like Aimee, which has a sustained spotting. It would work like EMP bolts do now; on impact, it would spot all enemies in a certain radius in a burst. The cooldown could be short, too; 5 seconds or so, to put him on par with the sustained spotting mercs like Vas and Aimee.

Change the EMP bolt to have a sustained disabling effect, disabling all new devices for as long as the bolt is on the ground. The bolt should be strictly better than Phantom’s EMP burst. I dunno if this works currently, but you should make the EMP burst disable Phantom’s cloaking, and immediately decloak him, too.

On the line of EMP, give him 80exp per device disabled, instead of 100exp for disabling anything. How it is now is if you disable nothing, you get 20xp for shooting. If you disable a health station, you get 20xp + 100xp for disabling. If you disable a health station, ammo station, some proxy mine, and a turret, you get 20xp + 100xp for disabling. It should be 20xp + 320xp (80 * 4) in that situation.

Bump his primary ammo magazine capacity to 25 at minimum. 30 would be better, but I can understand 25.

Make him faster, he’s too slow. He should be able to chase down most mercs.

Fix the damn hit recognition on that melee, or at least make the effective area larger. It feels really inconsistent.

(Xenithos) #12

@Eox said:
Serious skill floor ? Would be really true if darts wouldn’t have the width of a log.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8ru2EQ4Pk

He’s really fun, but that hitbox issue alone makes me feel sorry for the people I fought against.

So that’s why it’s so easy, rofl. I was like, MAN getting headshots is easy with the cross.

(bgyoshi) #13

@Eox said:
Serious skill floor ? Would be really true if darts wouldn’t have the width of a log.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8ru2EQ4Pk

He’s really fun, but that hitbox issue alone makes me feel sorry for the people I fought against.

How is this a hitbox issue?

The bolts are projectiles, they aren’t going to match up with the crosshair in almost any situation. They will travel from the side of the player that they are fired on, towards the centerline of the crosshair, and then drop over distance. That means it will start lower than the crosshair, rise to crosshair level, then drop, and will almost always be biased to the right of the crosshair.

All of these shots are at near point blank range relatively speaking, so the actual path of the bolt will start under head level. It makes sense that you have to aim over the top of the player to headshot. Same thing with the shot to the left of the player; the bolt is travelling right to left on the screen, so the actual hit spot will be to the right of the crosshair.

This is how it works in every game with physics projectile bullets; the hitbox is rarely, if ever, aligned with the crosshair, because the projectile is travelling through the air with a trajectory. Unlike guns in this game, which use hitscanning and just track the crosshair location and apply a multiplier for bullet spread to determine if a player gets hit or not.

(Sorotia) #14

@bgyoshi said:

@Eox said:
Serious skill floor ? Would be really true if darts wouldn’t have the width of a log.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8ru2EQ4Pk

He’s really fun, but that hitbox issue alone makes me feel sorry for the people I fought against.

How is this a hitbox issue?

The bolts are projectiles, they aren’t going to match up with the crosshair in almost any situation. They will travel from the side of the player that they are fired on, towards the centerline of the crosshair, and then drop over distance. That means it will start lower than the crosshair, rise to crosshair level, then drop, and will almost always be biased to the right of the crosshair.

All of these shots are at near point blank range relatively speaking, so the actual path of the bolt will start under head level. It makes sense that you have to aim over the top of the player to headshot. Same thing with the shot to the left of the player; the bolt is travelling right to left on the screen, so the actual hit spot will be to the right of the crosshair.

This is how it works in every game with physics projectile bullets; the hitbox is rarely, if ever, aligned with the crosshair, because the projectile is travelling through the air with a trajectory. Unlike guns in this game, which use hitscanning and just track the crosshair location and apply a multiplier for bullet spread to determine if a player gets hit or not.

I take it you’ve never played OW, faced a Hanzo?

(B_Montiel) #15

I’m currently putting him in the “op” section of the mercs right now.
The weird thing with the crossbow is that the more you concentrate aiming with the less hits you’ll do. For the few games where I played Hunter, I played it as something between Dreiss and Grandeur SR. A more powerful Dreiss when adsing somehow. And this seemed to work, grabbing awful headshots on enemies. When I played it as a pdp, no success.

My biggest fear is that I already see old times Sparks user (or shall we say abuser ? :D) pulling tremendous kills and scores out of him. The crossbow, is a cheap kills puller and it will get abused out by good players.

(woodchip) #16

@bgyoshi said:

How is this a hitbox issue?

The bolts are projectiles, they aren’t going to match up with the crosshair in almost any situation. They will travel from the side of the player that they are fired on, towards the centerline of the crosshair, and then drop over distance. That means it will start lower than the crosshair, rise to crosshair level, then drop, and will almost always be biased to the right of the crosshair.

All of these shots are at near point blank range relatively speaking, so the actual path of the bolt will start under head level. It makes sense that you have to aim over the top of the player to headshot. Same thing with the shot to the left of the player; the bolt is travelling right to left on the screen, so the actual hit spot will be to the right of the crosshair.

This is how it works in every game with physics projectile bullets; the hitbox is rarely, if ever, aligned with the crosshair, because the projectile is travelling through the air with a trajectory. Unlike guns in this game, which use hitscanning and just track the crosshair location and apply a multiplier for bullet spread to determine if a player gets hit or not.

This is without a doubt the most outstanding instance of fanboy shilling I have ever seen.

It’s a masterpiece. Well done.

PS the devs deliberately made the hitbox artificially generous so that projectile weapons can compete in a hitscan game.

PPS before writing elaborate explanations about how it’s all part of the plan due to right hand bias projectile origin physics and the Coriolis effect, you might try loading up the game and running the same experiment on the other side.

(ClemClem7) #17

@bgyoshi said:

@Eox said:
Serious skill floor ? Would be really true if darts wouldn’t have the width of a log.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8ru2EQ4Pk

He’s really fun, but that hitbox issue alone makes me feel sorry for the people I fought against.

How is this a hitbox issue?

The bolts are projectiles, they aren’t going to match up with the crosshair in almost any situation. They will travel from the side of the player that they are fired on, towards the centerline of the crosshair, and then drop over distance. That means it will start lower than the crosshair, rise to crosshair level, then drop, and will almost always be biased to the right of the crosshair.

All of these shots are at near point blank range relatively speaking, so the actual path of the bolt will start under head level. It makes sense that you have to aim over the top of the player to headshot. Same thing with the shot to the left of the player; the bolt is travelling right to left on the screen, so the actual hit spot will be to the right of the crosshair.

This is how it works in every game with physics projectile bullets; the hitbox is rarely, if ever, aligned with the crosshair, because the projectile is travelling through the air with a trajectory. Unlike guns in this game, which use hitscanning and just track the crosshair location and apply a multiplier for bullet spread to determine if a player gets hit or not.

I can agree theoretically with you on the vertical position of the projectile but not with the horizontal position, when you are scoped, barrel is under you point of view, there is no strange movement of the projectile.

But here that’s only an issue with the hitbox as everyone said.

(bgyoshi) #18

Thanks for the hate

@Sorotia said:

I take it you’ve never played OW, faced a Hanzo?

Hanzo fires from screen center, low, because OW Devs did it right. More importantly, I played a lot of Demoman and Huntsman sniper in TF2, both of which use physics projectiles, both of which you have to bias your crosshair to the left of every opponent because the projectile is starting screen right and moving to screen left towards the crosshair and will intersect the crosshair point at some distance. Try it for yourself.

@woodchip said:
PS the devs deliberately made the hitbox artificially generous so that projectile weapons can compete in a hitscan game.

They said that? Show me.

! The hitbox is on the player and doesn’t change size according to weapon.

@ClemClem7 said:

I can agree theoretically with you on the vertical position of the projectile but not with the horizontal position, when you are scoped, barrel is under you point of view, there is no strange movement of the projectile.

I’m 99% certain all the scope is, is an overlay. Watch the video again, and watch the player ‘zoom’. The arm position of the crossbow doesn’t change, meaning the only thing that happens from a game perspective is the FOV changes to zoom screen and a scope overlay appears on the player’s screen. But when you fire the weapon, it’s still moving from the same starting point as it would be when you’re unscoped too. Since the model is on the player’s screen right, the projectile starts on player screen right and will always require a left-bias on your scope.

Before @woodchip loses his shit and screams about fanboying, please point out at any point when I praised this and said it was a good thing

Oh that’s right, I never did.

I call it as I see it.

I never said they did a GOOD job, I’m telling you how it appears to work.

It’s a physics projectile, it will move from it’s starting point on the model towards the crosshair.

It will register as a hit when it intersects a hitbox in its path.

Because the devs don’t appear to change the start position of the projectile when you scope in, it won’t ever start screen center.

As for the arrow trail, I’m also 99% certain that it’s just a client-side effect that doesn’t follow the actual projectile. I always see it when I fire, I never see it from other Hunter’s bolts, and it appears to be the exact same color as your crosshair.

(B_Montiel) #19

@bgyoshi said:

I’m 99% certain all the scope is, is an overlay. Watch the video again, and watch the player ‘zoom’. The arm position of the crossbow doesn’t change, meaning the only thing that happens from a game perspective is the FOV changes to zoom screen and a scope overlay appears on the player’s screen. But when you fire the weapon, it’s still moving from the same starting point as it would be when you’re unscoped too. Since the model is on the player’s screen right, the projectile starts on player screen right and will always require a left-bias on your scope.

It’s a physics projectile, it will move from it’s starting point on the model towards the crosshair.

It will register as a hit when it intersects a hitbox in its path.

Because the devs don’t appear to change the start position of the projectile when you scope in, it won’t ever start screen center.

As for the arrow trail, I’m also 99% certain that it’s just a client-side effect that doesn’t follow the actual projectile. I always see it when I fire, I never see it from other Hunter’s bolts, and it appears to be the exact same color as your crosshair.

(Xenithos) #20

I have to say in this thread though, especially to OP, the Ulu is the stupidest most finnicky melee weapon Splash Damage has ever added to the game. It’s worse than the stiletto and the kukri combined. And what’s worse? They even have a loadout dedicated to stabbing people.