HP vs SPEED BALANCED?

(Zenity) #21

That’s the problem. Even in CS, a game in which a single bullet from your pistol can take out anybody, players will run from an even slightly unfavourable encounter. This goes a million times for classical arena shooters, where you really don’t want to engage an opponent who got the better stack.

I understand where you are coming from, since RTCW/ET put classes on a much more even playing field, but I don’t think you are right at all when you say that this undermines individual skill.

The advantage of faster classes is that it’s easier to get the drop on somebody, or duck out when the situation becomes unfavourable. Or to manoeuvre with your teammates to create 2on1 situations. Faster classes are not balanced because they have a “speed tank” (although they do, to some extend), but because they have a mobility advantage. Making use of it also takes great skill.

It sounds like Fragger is the class that suits you best (or Skyhammer, etc), but there are many types of players who enjoy taking advantage of increased mobility.

I think so far it’s pretty well balanced, and not at all dependent on hard class counters.

(Humbug) #22

That’s the problem. Even in CS, a game in which a single bullet from your pistol can take out anybody, players will run from an even slightly unfavourable encounter. This goes a million times for classical arena shooters, where you really don’t want to engage an opponent who got the better stack.
[/quote]

It’s not like I never run… but i don’t know why sawbones vs fragger must be an “unfavorable encounter” in the first place.

All in all you guys kind of convinced me to play more and wait for the other mercs and then judge again :smiley: . thanks for your opinions

(Unstable) #23

That’s the problem. Even in CS, a game in which a single bullet from your pistol can take out anybody, players will run from an even slightly unfavourable encounter. This goes a million times for classical arena shooters, where you really don’t want to engage an opponent who got the better stack.
[/quote]

It’s not like I never run… but i don’t know why sawbones vs fragger must be an “unfavorable encounter” in the first place.

All in all you guys kind of convinced me to play more and wait for the other mercs and then judge again :smiley: . thanks for your opinions

[/quote]

It isn’t unfavorable. if your the better player you will win that 1v1 engagement.

(Zenity) #24

That’s the problem. Even in CS, a game in which a single bullet from your pistol can take out anybody, players will run from an even slightly unfavourable encounter. This goes a million times for classical arena shooters, where you really don’t want to engage an opponent who got the better stack.
[/quote]

It’s not like I never run… but i don’t know why sawbones vs fragger must be an “unfavorable encounter” in the first place.
[/quote]

It’s only an unfavourable encounter if the encounter is completely fair. And the point of mobility advantage is to avoid fair fights. :slight_smile: I.e. flanking, backstabbing, outnumbering, peek and retreat, etc. Just a small advantage can be enough to win a fight against a fragger with any class, and that’s why I like how it’s done in Dirty Bomb.

Of course that goes for every game and every class: “if you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t play right” :wink: It’s just that classes with mobility advantage are better at it.

(RuleofBooKz) #25

it would be a sad day that the entire medic class just becomes a ribbon on the top of a splash damage game - nice to have, quite pretty but at the end of it all without a real purpose so pointless.

(Gruntel) #26

Sawbones vs. Fragger is in most cases an impossible engagement unless you hide 2 times to heal and somehow dodge the nades. And that’s the ideal scenario because in most cases you will be fighting more than one merc at a time. Even if you have the better aim you’re still at a major disadvantage simply because you have to land twice as many shots.

(Buttback) #27

I think speed is more valuable than HP.

If you look at all the HP/Speed stats on every merc, you’ll notice that some also got lucky and received more total HP and speed combined than others.

(RuleofBooKz) #28

maybe inc sawbones speed a tad and give a few more hp?

(Solid Stache ~NaC) #29

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;12168”]maybe inc sawbones speed a tad and give a few more hp?
[/quote]

He already has plenty of hit points. He is the only medic with 110 I believe… I think phoenix has 100 due to his self revive. If he had anymore, he would rival even field ops characters. Unfortunately, increasing his speed would be unlikely, since it seems they are focusing on three tiers of movement: slow, normal, and fast. I may be wrong, since I have never played Rhino, but he may be slower than the rest of the soldiers.

Splash Damage has already stated they want to make medics focus on support, so they won’t increase their dps at all. It’s unfortunate, but they want to focus on team play the most; they don’t want the same scenario they had in W:ET or QW:ET, where a medic can easily get triple kills.

(RuleofBooKz) #30

i kno they want to “balance” medics. Read: lots of ppl complained about “rambo” meds from previous titles so they hobbled sawbones so he cant - fair from front - beat 1v1 the assault heavy classes.

With that in mind id be willing to forgo the HP buff, fair call, but i think speed still is slow even for med class VS light class. If u make it so a medic cant beat a heavy at least allow for retreat.

Heavies should be SLOW!!! Big builds heaps of HP and BIG GUNS! with a big difference to meds in terms of speed. But the difference between light and med should not be so vast. Atm it is the opposite. The difference between med and heavy spead isnt so great (ya rhino might be the different fish here) but light character speed is a mile away in terms of speed and mobility from sawbones.

give ol bones a speed buff atm he feels sluggish

(ev1ldarks) #31

[quote=“Solid Stache ~NaC;12283”]
Splash Damage has already stated they want to make medics focus on support, so they won’t increase their dps at all. It’s unfortunate, but they want to focus on team play the most; they don’t want the same scenario they had in W:ET or QW:ET, where a medic can easily get triple kills. [/quote]

Hmmm, so why have they made Aura a rambo killing machine ? That’s not consistent with your sayings ^^ To make medics focus on support, don’t give them deadly weapons or re-positionnable healthstations ^^ Sawbonez can be deadly too when well played, because he can heal himself.

Actually, in all the matchs I’ve played, medics were generally more interested in killing than in healing… why ? because they actually CAN be used in this way ^^

(Solid Stache ~NaC) #32

She’s only that way in close combat, it’s just much more apparent since she also has high movement speed.

Each character has their strong points in certain range in combat, but there are other characters that are much more powerful and effective at the same time.

Sawbonez at one point in the game, was the most powerful character hands down due to the SMG-9 DPS. Shortly after they nerfed him to even worse to what he is today; people complained and wanted more guns just like his. Same thing happened to Phoenix.

All I remember from Splash Damage’s replies is that they don’t want medics to be the primary damage dealers, their heals can be extremely abusable as it is and tie damage with that it’ll create the rambo medic problem (which still exists today to some point).

(Humbug) #33

I also feel that sawbones is too weak, compared to aura.

  • aura heals at same speed
  • aura heals infight
  • aura heals unlimited amount of people
  • placing the healing station is faster than throwing medpacks

cant see any advantage that sawbones has over aura…

at least he needs an unlimited amount of medpacks… if 3 people who lost 1 hp pick up your medpacks, you can’t heal yourself or the 4th one who lost more hp

(Humbug) #34

[quote=“Humbug;12332”]
I also feel that sawbones is too weak, compared to aura.

  • aura heals at same speed
  • aura heals infight
  • aura heals unlimited amount of people
  • placing the healing station is faster than throwing medpacks

cant see any advantage that sawbones has over aura…

at least he needs an unlimited amount of medpacks… if 3 people who lost 1 hp pick up your medpacks, you can’t heal yourself or the 4th one who lost more hp[/quote]

oops sorry for double post, edit fail :frowning:

(ev1ldarks) #35

I think she does too much damage at mid-range. Is the actual spread enough ?

[quote=“Humbug;12332”]I also feel that sawbones is too weak, compared to aura.

  • aura heals at same speed
  • aura heals infight
  • aura heals unlimited amount of people
  • placing the healing station is faster than throwing medpacks

cant see any advantage that sawbones has over aura…

at least he needs an unlimited amount of medpacks… if 3 people who lost 1 hp pick up your medpacks, you can’t heal yourself or the 4th one who lost more hp[/quote]

Indeed, the big problem is clearly that Aura has too much advantages :

  • fast re-positionnable healstation => rambo medic compatible
  • healing in-fight => rambo medic compatible
  • fast movement => rambo medic compatible
  • big shotgun + secondary gun => rambo medic compatible
  • unlimited people healing

She’s a actually a rambo killing machine ^^
Take a couple of Auras, and you’ve got a pretty good commando.

Her healthstation is so powerful that I would perhaps make it not re-positionnable, and remove her secondary gun to balance…

… does the same thing will happen with Bushwhacker ?

And for Sawbonez advantages … his cool face ? :stuck_out_tongue:

(Humbug) #36

maybe the healing station should explode if destroyed and deal like 50 damage, i think that would be an easy but effective fix

(Szakalot) #37

Maybe not 50 damage(15-25 imo), but I like the idea

(immenseWalnut) #38

This is where you are going wrong. There is NO point in having multiple classes if they all have the same health/damage/speed. 1v1 mentality is the way bad team players think.

Killing Fraggers as Sawbonez is easy, BUT in a straight up fight, he will hammer you, because he has more health and solid damage. But you have health packs and he doesn’t, so if you are losing, it is a skill/effective intelligence issue, not a balance issue.

(Humbug) #39

This is where you are going wrong. There is NO point in having multiple classes if they all have the same health/damage/speed. 1v1 mentality is the way bad team players think.

Killing Fraggers as Sawbonez is easy, BUT in a straight up fight, he will hammer you, because he has more health and solid damage. But you have health packs and he doesn’t, so if you are losing, it is a skill/effective intelligence issue, not a balance issue.

[/quote]

i totally understand that, but there is no way to outplay him other than running away and sometimes you just can’t do that.
Also there are no “zones” where my teammates are concentrated, whole team is spread all over the map (because of their silly echo system) that makes it really hard to be the pure teamplayer.
some deaths just FEEL unfair, and people hate unfair games.

(bubblesKeyboard) #40

IMO dodging is much more effective than tanking. Especially with a glass cannon class like Proxy or Aura - up against a Fragger I can usually hit them twice or so while bouncing around.