@fragon: CS has had its audience shrink, BF changed a lot over time, the CoD series changed drastically after CoD 2 (whilst MW was good it was very different) and that change actually grew the audience a lot. For me these aren’t great examples of the same formula working for ages and ages.
@rookie: This is where we get torn. You ask for something newer and more unique, we’d quite like to do some of that. But we also get lots of players asking us to do less new stuff and just copy ET and RTCW, which one is right?
@Others: we are aware we have issues with the maps, we want to change some of that direction, but it takes time. Hopefully next patch you start to see new block-out maps along those lines…to some extent.
I’m sure there’s an element of all that, and for those of us stuck in the past we have to remember we loved RTCW in a world that didn’t include COD or BF (at the time). I’d also suggest RTCW was fundamentally new. It was the first game to feature true classes and a multi-objective system. We might take that for granted now but it didn’t exist in 2001. If XT just copied that it wouldn’t be new, that’s true, but then again there’s no game on the market today that features true classes and a multi-objective system anyway, so I don’t think it’s as big a risk as you make out.
[QUOTE=Anti;486375]In some cases this means elements that were in ET or RTCW, that we think might not serve us today, are dropped. In other cases it means we bring stuff back from ET or ETQW that we maybe didn’t do in Brink. In others we try to do something totally new.
We have to discover what is and isn’t working as we go, as we add more players and as we continue to build the game, because there certainly isn’t a ‘proven success’ that we can go and copy in today’s market and still have the same results.[/QUOTE]
In terms of overall game design maybe there isn’t an all encompassing magic formula, but to an extent you can’t cherry pick specific elements at will either.
If XT is to be an objective game certain rules must apply, or else it fails in that aim. A true objective game needs a wave spawn system, with longer spawn times than today’s impatient gamers are used to, and it arguably needs capture-able spawn points as well. Objective game-play, unlike CTF or any other form of area control, is one team attacking, as a team, in a wave, against another team of defenders. Battle ensues, objectives are won or lost, then the next wave occurs. XT almost entirely fails at this.
The concept of a true class system is almost entirely at odds with the idea of classless objectives. This is re-inventing the wheel and making it square, it just doesn’t work IMO.
By all means make something “new”, even if making something old is actually not as bad an idea as it sounds, but either make it objective based, or not, make it either class based, or not, because at the moment we have a hybrid that fails on both counts.
Finally some news !
So my question is not when (cause I think you don’t know yourself) but what are the majors changes you are working on ?
Maps Scale ? More “open” maps ? Obj Design ? Obj type ? capturable spawn point ? Side objectives ? Alternatives routes ? Doors ?
I’m really curious about how you see things for the futur maps.
[QUOTE=Kendle;486408]The concept of a true class system is almost entirely at odds with the idea of classless objectives. This is re-inventing the wheel and making it square, it just doesn’t work IMO.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=rookie1;486401]imo todays games that has something special/original/unique even if they are build on standard FPS base are the one that have/will have chance to be successful
Xt is build on standard bases but is missing the special/original/unique part …for now .
We have to face it there is a huge amount of games today and its will be difficult for most of them except the one that will come with something special .[/QUOTE]
I haven’t written something in a while now, and that’s because I haven’t played XT in a while now. The reason for that is pretty much this^. There’s nothing other than the great artstyle, that makes the game stand out from all the other fps-games*, and that’s simply not enough for me, to keep it playing. But as Anti said; maybe some ppl already got tired of playing fps-games at all, and maybe I’m just one of them, I don’t know. I’m sure though, that the whole weapons thing doesn’t help this game in any way either. Everything around shooting and hitting people and the sounds of the weapons is just not satisfying to me. But again, maybe I’m too old and scrubbish for something as fast paced as XT;
* The objective gameplay could also be a mod of any other fps-game. That’s just not enough to give XT a unique flavor. What XT kinda lacks is a interesting and unique mechanic, that defines the whole game in every aspect
PS: I played XT for the last time approximately 2-3months ago, and it was also the last time I’ve played a fps-game at all, wich could be an indicator, that I’m generally not interested in fps games anymore; so maybe my opinion isn’t that relevant. But then again, Brink was at it’s time also the only fps game I’ve played, just because of it’s overall uniqueness and because of how much fun it was for me to play it. I don’t find that in XT, at least not in the overall scheme and over a longer period of time.
I’m probably at odds with most folk - i find the current game enjoyable and just think a lot could be sorted with fairly basic map changes and proper spawnwaves.
That said there is a dearth of decent games out there - recently tried COD Ghosts (got it for the lad, honest) and it just makes me want to cry (fixed fov of 65/gimmicky kill streaks etc). I really enjoyed MW, but god this is just desperate now. Tried NS2 and just cant find anything enjoyable about beating another player romping around as an alien (had a similar issue with L4D and L4D2). Tried Dayz and god that’s boring - feckin hiking simulator with the occassional glitched zombie appearing and mental other players just playing out their pyscho tendencies…
errr so yeah mebbe it’s not a ringing endorsement, but i guess my message is that the game as it stands is fun and has a lot potential if only those core map and spawn issues could be resolved (which is competely within SDs gift).
[QUOTE=montheponies;486411]I’m probably at odds with most folk - i find the current game enjoyable and just think a lot could be sorted with fairly basic map changes and proper spawnwaves.
That said there is a dearth of decent games out there - recently tried COD Ghosts (got it for the lad, honest) and it just makes me want to cry (fixed fov of 65/gimmicky kill streaks etc). I really enjoyed MW, but god this is just desperate now. Tried NS2 and just cant find anything enjoyable about beating another player romping around as an alien (had a similar issue with L4D and L4D2). Tried Dayz and god that’s boring - feckin hiking simulator with the occassional glitched zombie appearing and mental other players just playing out their pyscho tendencies…
errr so yeah mebbe it’s not a ringing endorsement, but i guess my message is that the game as it stands is fun and has a lot potential if only those core map and spawn issues could be resolved (which is competely within SDs gift).[/QUOTE]
I guess you weren’t directly replying to my post, but I just wanted to say, that I share the exact same opinions; at least for those games you mentioned that I’ve actually played* I don’t play all those games anymore. And XT is indeed better than all those games, if only because it doesn’t make the same mistakes they do. But that’s just not enough for me to keep playing it; the fact, that it isn’t as bad as other games.
*Too sad though, because NS2’s maps are among the greatest looking fps-maps I’ve ever seen and I even like the gameplay, but killing those bouncing creeps is only funny for so long and the length of the matches can get quite excessive in some cases. And I totally gotcha on the DayZ thing; even though I never played it(because for that).
Like Frost says XT doesn’t stand out. It doesn’t offer me something that keeps me coming back. I find the gunplay combined with the map design boring.
Currently I’m only playing BF4. It’s open and not a single game feels the same. It has some pretty bad maps / gameplay, but at least I have the freedom to pick a path and mess around, and thats all I need, to have fun in a pub game.
[QUOTE=montheponies;486411]I’m probably at odds with most folk - i find the current game enjoyable and just think a lot could be sorted with fairly basic map changes and proper spawnwaves.
That said there is a dearth of decent games out there - recently tried COD Ghosts (got it for the lad, honest) and it just makes me want to cry (fixed fov of 65/gimmicky kill streaks etc). I really enjoyed MW, but god this is just desperate now. Tried NS2 and just cant find anything enjoyable about beating another player romping around as an alien (had a similar issue with L4D and L4D2). Tried Dayz and god that’s boring - feckin hiking simulator with the occassional glitched zombie appearing and mental other players just playing out their pyscho tendencies…
errr so yeah mebbe it’s not a ringing endorsement, but i guess my message is that the game as it stands is fun and has a lot potential if only those core map and spawn issues could be resolved (which is competely within SDs gift).[/QUOTE]
I guess you weren’t directly replying to my post, but I just wanted to say, that I share the exact same opinions; at least for those games above, that I’ve actually played*I don’t play all those games, at least not anymore. And XT is better than all of those games, if only because it doesn’t make the same mistakes they do. But that’s not enough for me to play a game; just not being as bad as other games.
*Too sad though, because NS2’s maps are among the greatest looking fps-maps I’ve ever seen and I even like the gameplay, but killing those bouncing creeps is only funny for so long and the lenght of the matches can get quite excessive in some cases. And I totally gotcha on the DayZ thing; even though I never played it(because for that).
I understand that the first few maps were also meant to get the art direction right. However, as they mirror some truly legendary classics I’d really just love to play them as blockouts again. Just to freshen up the view and see if we can bring back the old glory again. I know that this is asking for way too much though.
I get the feeling that the design premise since RtCW has always been ‘more is better’, yet the more that’s added the less attractive the games become. Ironically you throw tons more stuff at the player, more guns, more abilities, more mercs, more objectives, more routes, yet remove a fundamental part of all those previous games that really should have been expanded upon… the movement! Regardless of Brink’s failings, it at least tried to do something with the movement, and it was pushing SMART to it’s limits that kept me on Brink for as long as it did… if it wasn’t for that I wouldn’t have had half the play time.
This^ They must not forget, that we are going to live in the age of Titanfall pretty soon. Add to that all the well established majors and it’s probably getting quite rough for XT.
Lets be honest, I’m really looking forward to TitanFall. Ive already stopped playing XT (waiting for an update) and i’ll be focusing on Titanfall when it comes out. SD needs to get their stuff together, right now.
Titanfall looks like the worst combination of COD and MechWarriors, with a smattering of BF for good measure - really dont get what there is to be that excited about. The movement looks kinda interesting but i fear it’ll all be a bit canned animation like.
[QUOTE=Anti;486405]@fragon: CS has had its audience shrink, BF changed a lot over time, the CoD series changed drastically after CoD 2 (whilst MW was good it was very different) and that change actually grew the audience a lot. For me these aren’t great examples of the same formula working for ages and ages.
@rookie: This is where we get torn. You ask for something newer and more unique, we’d quite like to do some of that. But we also get lots of players asking us to do less new stuff and just copy ET and RTCW, which one is right?
@Others: we are aware we have issues with the maps, we want to change some of that direction, but it takes time. Hopefully next patch you start to see new block-out maps along those lines…to some extent.[/QUOTE]
My XT receipe
-Prepare you best Unique/originality/special in a big bowl ,work it good make sure its will be desire and fun.
-Add the Best of your previous games ingredients ,taking care to choices the best quality ingredients.
Mix all the ingredients ,Cook until you start smelling the awesomeness coming out of it.
In a well chosen Map dish of good dimension , Spread a nest of a well Balance FPS in the middle of the plate ,Add carefully your delicious preparation on top .
Surround the dish with your Best Art from your famous SD garden
Spice with love, humor,fun,variety
and your guests will love it
Can be serve with wine or beers:penguin:
In terms of overall game design maybe there isn’t an all encompassing magic formula, but to an extent you can’t cherry pick specific elements at will either.
If XT is to be an objective game certain rules must apply, or else it fails in that aim.
I hold the same view. One has to take the good with the bad (or rough edges), otherwise it falls flat on its face.
At the same time provided those fundamental aspects are in place, theres plenty of room for improvement.
[QUOTE=Anti;486405]@fragon: CS has had its audience shrink, BF changed a lot over time, the CoD series changed drastically after CoD 2 (whilst MW was good it was very different) and that change actually grew the audience a lot. For me these aren’t great examples of the same formula working for ages and ages.
@rookie: This is where we get torn. You ask for something newer and more unique, we’d quite like to do some of that. But we also get lots of players asking us to do less new stuff and just copy ET and RTCW, which one is right?
@Others: we are aware we have issues with the maps, we want to change some of that direction, but it takes time. Hopefully next patch you start to see new block-out maps along those lines…to some extent.[/QUOTE]
Call me crazy, but I’ve actually been enjoying Extraction since I picked it up again a few days ago. It needs work but I feel it has gained some decent traction since a year ago. I ping ~140ms to EU (the only servers ever populated), yet hit reg and animations honestly seem better than I’ve ever seen out of Brink or ETQW. That is pretty important if you ask me. Balance issues can be worked out but when your foundation is poor you’re usually just applying a bandage to a gaping wound (i.e. moving on from id Tech 4 was a good decision).
Remove movement penalty while reloading (I’m surprised this has remained in the game for so long); set up spawn waves; reduce Fragger’s HP and his primary’s rate of fire; rework Vassili’s wall hack grenade (poor mechanic) and add sway to the sniper rifle; tone down the spread some more; improve hit sounds. Just a list of things off the top of my head that shouldn’t be too difficult to modify that I think will go a long way toward improving the game right now.
The maps obviously need some work too and are a major reason I think people are upset. Aside from reworking those I’d also go along with the sentiment I’ve read to re-release some of the classics. Maybe make a few adjustments to them here or there to accommodate Xt specifically and I don’t think anyone would fault you for that (Salvage please, thanks!).
Maybe the reason I don’t have such a beef with the game as some of you guys is that I’m easier to satisfy. Maybe BF4 just left that bad a taste in my mouth with its terrible net code and game play. But I do think the gun play in Xt feels pretty good within a certain range, and that is paramount to me (reduce spread some more and longer range will feel pretty good too I think despite the drop off on some of the guns). Outside of getting steamrolled by Fraggers spraying my body as I’m dinking them seemingly a million times on Sawbonez, I don’t feel cheated very often.
This has been a bit of a rant, sorry. I’ve had to scratch my head reading some comments about how the game is less fun than Brink so I wanted to get my opinion out there. Considering Splash Damage in this game compared to Brink has removed the buffs system, S.M.A.R.T. movement, id Tech 4, and added the ability to complete a single objective, it is pretty hard for me to see how this is worse than Brink. I think Xt is a decent game in its own right, and we’re pretty early along I would assume.
Hope they didn’t retreat yet.