How to fix the Cobalt issue. (List Ideas Here)

(TmGSpade) #1

3 useless cobalts + a fee for a small chance of getting a useful cobalt is complete bullshit.

Might as well make it 2 cobalts + 10k for a cobalt loadout card that you can select. I thought you guys were going to fix this useless cobalt issue, not ruining the @$!# game.I am @$!# disappointed, but at least this a one way of getting rid of unwanted cobalt.

How about trading down a cobalt for 3 gold mercs of your choice? Or 2 cobalts + 10k = for a cobalt loadout card of your choice.

List your ideas here boys and girls, maybe we can actually solve something here…

(Yes) #2

They ruined the game? If you just don’t use the trade-in system then it’s the same as before. :expressionless:

I think 2 cobalts for 1 random cobalt of choice would be fine.

(B_Montiel) #3

There’ll always be people complaining of the current system. My idea is that the current system is too much rng related to be satisfying. And the new proposal of same quality trade-ups is just following the same concept. In its roots, the system is not that good. So instead of putting new features that will be exponentially worse if you pile them up together (a pile of crap will always tip over at some point), I go for a total rebuild of the system. As long as equipment and rarity are tied together, this won’t work.

One possible way :

Standard crates gives you random Equipment cards (Weapons + Augments) OR Rarity cards (Lead to cobalt). You can craft x Equipment cards + trade up costs to get a specific merc Equipment card. You can craft y rarity cards + trade up costs to get an upper rarity card.

The liberty is then given to the player to tie the equipment card and the rarity card together to create a usable complete loadout card. But once tied together, you can only disassemble the loadout card by paying a strong amount of in-game credits.

Expert/Elite cases only gives you rarity card (bronze/silver and above) complete loadouts. Those loadouts can be disassembled as well.

  • Money only cosmetics that are tied to a specific merc : You buy the skin as a rarity card, you can apply it to whatever equipment card you fancy for that specific merc. Same cost as cobalt to disassemble it.

It is just an example. I’m not convinced myself that this would work. It’s just an example which retains crates and good bits of randomness without punishing players too much.

(Pecka) #4

My only point would be that I personally don’t want to see anything like “merc of your selection” , that would completely ruin the rarity effect.

And maybe even if it would be 3 cobalts to 1 merc of your selection, I still believe it would ruin the rarity completely.

The trade down suggestion sounds good to me, actually.

Or maybe just make it 1 cobalt + what, 30k credits for another random cobalt. It would still be huge RNG, and it would be expensive, but you will have something to gamble with? :slight_smile:

So yeah, the current system is just too much, but I don’t want to see every one and his mother running with the best cobalt loadouts :wink:

BTW< I don’t have any cobalts :wink:

(HonourBound) #5

I think they should drop the number of Cobalts needed to 2, increase the price to 30,000 credits or leave it at the price it is for the same method of choosing your cobalt (i.e only the merc)

(RyePanda) #6

It should be 1 cobalt + 10K credits for a random card for a merc you choose with no chance of a repeat.

(riptide) #7

Before they implemented Cobalts we had the same problem with extra Gold cards. Which is to say nothing to do with them. What I suggested then is exactly what I’m suggesting now, with the added option to trade for a specific loadout at a greatly increased cost.

We should be able to trade as follows;
1 Cobalt + 10k Credits = 3 random gold for random mercs.
1 Cobalt + 17.5k Credits = 1 specific gold for a specific merc

1 Gold + 4k credits = 2 random silver for random mercs
1 Gold + 17.5k Credits 1 specific silver for a specific merc

1 Silver + 2k credits = 2 random bronze for random mercs
1 Silver + 8.5k credits = 1 specific bronze for a specific merc

Yes, I realize the credit cost for converting 2 random cobalt is 6k higher than what we currently have. However, it’s also 1 card cheaper.

I’m also aware there is no way to get a specific cobalt and I feel that it’s more beneficial to remain that way. Instead I would rather see an option in the shop to buy a specific cobalt loadout for 20 dollars.

(Eox) #8

Either a reroll for the merc of your choice, taking one Cobalt + a credit fee, or they keep it like this but allow us to pick our loadout.

(MarsRover) #9

  1. 2 cobalts => 1 specific cobalt - merc & loadout & skin

  2. rerolling cobalt for X credits - same merc, only loadout and skin changes, no repeats (no A -> A, but A -> B -> A can happen)
    X = 20k? dunno

  3. cobalt card + bronze/silver/gold card + X credits => cobalt skin with bronze loadout. Silver/Gold cards make the operation cheaper.
    X = 50k for bronze?

those are not exclusive, all can exist at once. None of this current RNG trade up.

(B_Montiel) #10

The biggest problem with cobalt reroll is that it’s considering that cobalt is different from other rarity tiers. Currently, except that they are the highest rarity available, there’s no difference in the way they are treated compared to other rarities. Thus a MASSIVE P2W issue here, if multiple cobalt owners (a.k.a. Elite cases Whales) have the right to reroll and not the others. In other terms, this would higher the chance of paying players to get better loadouts (game-wise, not talking of the rarity of the card here). If you can reroll cobalts, they’ll be forced to allow lower rarity rerolls, and this will ruin the whole crates/trade-ups/loadouts system (I won’t develop, but I hope you do understand why low rarity tier rerolls are bad for SD and Nexon).

And most of the ideas surrounding the current situation are pretty much always forgetting this fact. Give cobalt owners more rights, the game will enter a world of pain where people would have a pretty legitimate reason to call this game PAY TO WIN.

(MarsRover) #11

The biggest problem with cobalt reroll is that it’s considering that cobalt is different from other loadout cards. Currently, except that they are the highest rarity available, there’s no difference in the way they are treated compared to other rarities. Thus a MASSIVE P2W issue here, if multiple cobalt owners (a.k.a. Elite cases Whales) have the right to reroll and not the others. In other terms, this would higher the chance of paying players to get better loadouts. If you can reroll cobalts, they’ll be forced to allow lower rarity rerolls, and this will ruin the whole crates/trade-ups/loadouts system.

And most of the ideas surrounding the current situation are pretty much always forgetting this fact. Give cobalt owners more right, the game will enter a world of pain where people would have a pretty legitimate reason to call this game PAY TO WIN.[/quote]

Uhm, no. The reroll would cost some not insignificant amount of credits, and anyone can buy any loadout in Bronze for 17.5k. No P2W whatsoever.

(B_Montiel) #12

The biggest problem with cobalt reroll is that it’s considering that cobalt is different from other loadout cards. Currently, except that they are the highest rarity available, there’s no difference in the way they are treated compared to other rarities. Thus a MASSIVE P2W issue here, if multiple cobalt owners (a.k.a. Elite cases Whales) have the right to reroll and not the others. In other terms, this would higher the chance of paying players to get better loadouts. If you can reroll cobalts, they’ll be forced to allow lower rarity rerolls, and this will ruin the whole crates/trade-ups/loadouts system.

And most of the ideas surrounding the current situation are pretty much always forgetting this fact. Give cobalt owners more right, the game will enter a world of pain where people would have a pretty legitimate reason to call this game PAY TO WIN.[/quote]

Uhm, no. The reroll would cost some not insignificant amount of credits, and anyone can buy any loadout in Bronze for 17.5k. No P2W whatsoever.[/quote]

Then give the re-roll for at least 50k in-game credits. The amount should be more than significant. And give everyone the possibility to re-roll any rarity. That’d be totally unfair to most of the players. Strictly. I really don’t know why cobalt owners should get a pass because they’re too wealthy and can’t handle so much uselessness in their inventory. Yes, I am a bit jealous, but everyone should be treated in the same way. This would literally break all the trade-up flow from my point of view.
I’m seriously staggered. People spending their time wasting money on cases or doing trade-ups without caring until they obtain their cobalt graal. I truly think a good part is totally misconceiving the incentive behind the whole trade-up thing.

Nevertheless, everyone should keep in mind that there’s way more important things than this currently. And that’s a bit sad seeing people spending some high amount of money pretending “I support dirty bomb” then play the spoiled children because “I never asked for this”. Shots fired, I’m sorry. But I’d way prefer to have N pages threads about proper game problems which dirty bomb is full of than what is happening currently.

(MarsRover) #13

The biggest problem with cobalt reroll is that it’s considering that cobalt is different from other loadout cards. Currently, except that they are the highest rarity available, there’s no difference in the way they are treated compared to other rarities. Thus a MASSIVE P2W issue here, if multiple cobalt owners (a.k.a. Elite cases Whales) have the right to reroll and not the others. In other terms, this would higher the chance of paying players to get better loadouts. If you can reroll cobalts, they’ll be forced to allow lower rarity rerolls, and this will ruin the whole crates/trade-ups/loadouts system.

And most of the ideas surrounding the current situation are pretty much always forgetting this fact. Give cobalt owners more right, the game will enter a world of pain where people would have a pretty legitimate reason to call this game PAY TO WIN.[/quote]

Uhm, no. The reroll would cost some not insignificant amount of credits, and anyone can buy any loadout in Bronze for 17.5k. No P2W whatsoever.[/quote]

Then give the re-roll for at least 50k in-game credits. The amount should be more than significant. And give everyone the possibility to re-roll any rarity. That’d be totally unfair to most of the players. Strictly. I really don’t know why cobalt owners should get a pass because they’re too wealthy and can’t handle so much uselessness in their inventory. Yes, I am a bit jealous, but everyone should be treated in the same way. This would literally break all the trade-up flow from my point of view.
I’m seriously staggered. People spending their time wasting money on cases or doing trade-ups without caring until they obtain their cobalt graal. I truly think a good part is totally misconceiving the incentive behind the whole trade-up thing.

Nevertheless, everyone should keep in mind that there’s way more important things than this currently. And that’s a bit sad seeing people spending some high amount of money pretending “I support dirty bomb” then play the spoiled children because “I never asked for this”. Shots fired, I’m sorry. But I’d way prefer to have N pages threads about proper game problems which dirty bomb is full of than what is happening currently.[/quote]

Cobalts are the end. With lower tier cards you can trade up. You can’t do anything if you get a dud cobalt. That’s the key difference.

Yes, this is a goodwill gesture towards the people that spend actual money in this F2P game and/or are veterans that make the core community of DB, and this is a good thing. I don’t know why would you paint it in negative light, probably that jelousy you mention :tongue:

Again, we’re talking about cosmetics here. If lower tier don’t get a reroll it’s not P2W in any form. Implementing rerolling is super easy, it’s not like it would take any significant amount of resources.

Disclaimer - I have 0 cobalts :slight_smile:

(riptide) #14

When this problem started Gold was the end. Who is to say Emerald and Ruby aren’t around the corner? :tongue:

EDIT) I suppose the Periodic table does. Barium and Bromine will have to do.

(Nail) #15

nah, gonna be more Obsidians soon

(B_Montiel) #16

[quote=“MarsRover;91702”]
Cobalts are the end. With lower tier cards you can trade up. You can’t do anything if you get a dud cobalt. That’s the key difference.

Yes, this is a goodwill gesture towards the people that spend actual money in this F2P game and/or are veterans that make the core community of DB, and this is a good thing. I don’t know why would you paint it in negative light, probably that jelousy you mention :tongue:

Disclaimer - I have 0 cobalts :)[/quote]

Well, my problem is that it is somehow very temporary band-aids that requires work, and are also contradicting some future plans. I’d be interested to know the purpose of this when steam trading will appear, if future higher tier cards appear. In my opinion, that’s very end of the line work.
The whole system seems to me still very undefined, and wobbly. And it’s not a time to go into such details. I feel like they don’t really where they are going with this. I hope for the cobalt owners club that they’ll have some sort of compensation, but I’d prefer some patience from them. That’s a minor problem currently, even in the loadout system and also future hypothetical economy.

Personally, with the current system as is, if you open the steam market, this is going to be a massive clusterfuck, with cobalt going from 5$ to less than 1 in a week. I’ve said it multiple times. The current system definitely won’t sustain. So, in my opinion, with those projects of adding steam market in mind, I’d prefer to see them do a proper rethink job than just finding temporary band-aids. I agree and like goodwill gestures, and I think they tried a way that was acceptable for them in the current system. But in my mind, it’s hiding more rooted issues, that will have an impact for us but also for them, if they want good income from the game on the long run, which is their very incentive to continue supporting dirty bomb.

(terminal) #17

Since SD seems to want RNG, I suggest that we just have a reroll option.
the cost for a reroll on the card is the same as the cost for the rarity of the card.

(stormcloudLoyalist) #18

I like the down grade concept. An example would be trading down a cobalt for 6 golds of your choosing

(Monty) #19

Posted this on the other thread already, but here it goes again:

On one hand, if you got a bunch of cobalt cards you just do not use and in all honestly never will, then getting rid of three for a chance at getting something good in return seems reasonable. After all, getting that 24k to ‘reroll’ takes less time than to get 1,000k~ credits to make one cobalt from scratch.

And that kind of gives hindsight to the issue here. To get that one cobalt card, you are looking at 120~ hours of gameplay, or a monetary investment of around €80~. Something of hurdle either way, and so for player without a multitude of cobalts to spare, this system is likely to feel inherently unfair.

And we should not forget that some people do get the loadout they want on their very first try. While others end up with dozens of unwanted cobalts.

So, to make this system, appear fairer, I suggest the following changes:

Cobalt
Cost: 3 Cobalts and 24k in credits
Result: 1 Cobalt + (3 Gold Cases that drop a random gold loadout)

Gold
Cost: 3 Golds and 7.2k in credits
Result: 1 Gold + (3 Silver Cases that drop a random silver loadout)

Silver
Cost: 3 Silvers and 3.2k in credits
Result: 1 Silver + (3 Bronze Cases that drop a random bronze loadout)

Bronze
Cost: 3 Bronze and 1.4k in credits
Result: 1 Bronze + (3 Iron Cases that drop a random iron loadout)

Thus, in the case of cobalts, even if the resulting loadout is not what you sought, you are still half-way there to roll another cobalt via trade ups. Which is not all that bad, if you think about it. Not to mention that it might even serve as an additional incentive for someone to purchase the premium cases or even a new merc.

(MarsRover) #20

[quote=“B. Montiel;91728”][quote=“MarsRover;91702”]
Cobalts are the end. With lower tier cards you can trade up. You can’t do anything if you get a dud cobalt. That’s the key difference.

Yes, this is a goodwill gesture towards the people that spend actual money in this F2P game and/or are veterans that make the core community of DB, and this is a good thing. I don’t know why would you paint it in negative light, probably that jelousy you mention :tongue:

Disclaimer - I have 0 cobalts :)[/quote]

Well, my problem is that it is somehow very temporary band-aids that requires work, and are also contradicting some future plans. I’d be interested to know the purpose of this when steam trading will appear, if future higher tier cards appear. In my opinion, that’s very end of the line work.
The whole system seems to me still very undefined, and wobbly. And it’s not a time to go into such details. I feel like they don’t really where they are going with this. I hope for the cobalt owners club that they’ll have some sort of compensation, but I’d prefer some patience from them. That’s a minor problem currently, even in the loadout system and also future hypothetical economy.

Personally, with the current system as is, if you open the steam market, this is going to be a massive clusterfuck, with cobalt going from 5$ to less than 1 in a week. I’ve said it multiple times. The current system definitely won’t sustain. So, in my opinion, with those projects of adding steam market in mind, I’d prefer to see them do a proper rethink job than just finding temporary band-aids. I agree and like goodwill gestures, and I think they tried a way that was acceptable for them in the current system. But in my mind, it’s hiding more rooted issues, that will have an impact for us but also for them, if they want good income from the game on the long run, which is their very incentive to continue supporting dirty bomb.[/quote]

Well, ideally I’d like to get rid of this whole RNG loadout+skin system. But I have lost hope that those will ever separate. Adding another tier above cobalt will not go down well for the same reasons current trade-in is hated. This leaves us with figuring out what to do with unwanted cobalts.

Getting to Cobalt is hard, takes a lot of cash or time. It would be great if trading up to one didn’t feel like punishment, as most mercs only have 1-3 good loadouts. A system that costs only credits and can be used multiple times on a single cobalt (like rerolling) ensures that eventually you will get something good. Eventually new loadouts will be introduced, this would also help when that happens.

Currently, after playing for 350h, I have no incentive to spend 10k and 6 golds for a cobalt. I’d rather spend that cash on trade ups up to gold, hoard bad golds, and wait for a sensible cobalt recycling solution.

And I agree that steam trading will not help with bad cobalts. Sure, if you get a great loadout for a merc you don’t use you’ll be able to sell it as it’s attractive to other players. But bad cobalts will go for much less because they’re only good as fodder for this trade-in system.