How to balance Vassili 101 + good patch notes that actually make senes

(Daerados) #101

Should I make tl;dr for you? Won’t happen bro, read again.

[QUOTE=Szakalot;536442]so according to some imaginary top teams we should take your word for it that ‘for everything there is counter measure’?

Yeah… no. Fragger nades have no countermeasures. If we adopted the ‘for everything there is counter measure’ mentality, we would never see the consecutive 3 different nerfs to how fragger’s nades operate; within the last 6 months.[/QUOTE]

Not imaginary, because there’s none atm who will solidare with game as it is and think about something else than making suggestions which will help to return their comfort zone. (Hope understandable, in my language it makes sense :stuck_out_tongue: ) About fragger you’re right, but it’s not the weapons we talk about, but characters mechanic.

Anyway I kinda bored to spend here 3rd day, I wrote my opinion, said why I think in such way. I hope if there’s some verdict will be done by devs, they will read everyones argumented opinion. Thanks for reading :slight_smile:

(fubar) #102

[QUOTE=Daerados;536443]
Not imaginary, because there’s none atm who will solidare with game as it is and think about something else than making suggestions which will help to return their comfort zone. (Hope understandable, in my language it makes sense :stuck_out_tongue: ) About fragger you’re right, but it’s not the weapons we talk about, but characters mechanic.[/QUOTE]

Are you high? We’ve played, adapted and abused the current settings for months, we adapt play and abuse any new changes/settings that hit the game. We have done so with instagib, we all agree that it’s a gamebreaking feature that only contradicts everything the game is supposed to be about. In the meantime, we’ve kept on playing. It’s been 3 or something months since I’ve first brought up Vasilli balance suggestions. What’s not to grasp here?

Do you honestly think your pros in LoL, Dota, SC2, Quake, CSGO, etc. have no input in their respective titles? I can guarantee you that several of them are CONSULTED before game altering patches go live, most even get to play-test them and voice their opinions regarding it. There’s plenty of things they stopped from being “put into the game”, why? Because they’re inherently broken to the point that mere adaption can not deal with it.

Unless you magically change any and all maps drastically to reduce the effectiveness of the sniper or give us other means of dealing with a sniper (redeye and phantoms are an utter joke, don’t even suggest it), it will remain unbalanced at high-level play. And that’s the issue here, right? The fact that the only counter to a sniper is… having a sniper. That’s not a feasible solution at any level of play.

And again, you don’t seem to comprehend the fact that the proposed changes would not, in any way, make Vasilli less effective. He’ll still kill in 1 headshot, he’ll still gib in 1 headshot (If chicken had his way, in 1 bodyshot even), the only thing that changes is the fact that the Vasilli player will be rewarded MORE for prioritizing all the while the skill ceiling of the class is being highered. You can headshot a downed player TWICE before revive invulnerability kicks in. Make the choice, kill 2 more people or make sure the person you’ve killed stays dead. It’s that simple.

(Daerados) #103

Stop being fanatic with author. I partially agree about you called “mine” pros, but roots of ideas coming from respective developers and only in several occasions they let to have influence of players to “tune” them. But you guys don’t try to read it completely. Let’s talk about improvements not degradation of in-game elements. Let’s pretend it will pass, what next? Healing stations, revive spam is also annoying as fraggers nades too. Do you really think people will leave it be? There’s always someone will want to destroy(nerf) something what disturbs their fun. As I mentioned before I played fragger before vasili, wasn’t very fun having 6-8 kd ratio without any help to team, because after you kill 3-4 people watching most of them go up, because running finishing everyone off is getting your ass kicked. I wish there was no defibrillator spam. Let’s nerf these too, what will remain? Arma styled game? There was a reason why these mechanics was introduced in the first place. To make this game unique. Watching these casts from cups I have seen nothing to be game breaking, ofcourse if someone does outstandigly good, with every merc it will be annoying for enemy, but it’s not like someone does it all day every day.
I try to tell to think about consequences before making suggestions, that’s all.

edit: ffs I wonder, there’s rarely any fast ressurection mechanic even exists in modern shooters, they gave it and now are complains that it’s weak crap because someone can show their skill and prevent you from doing it. About counter sniping, if someone can’t outshoot another - use brain, be unpredictable to avoid face to face duel. There’s never perfectly equally skilled opponents, then it would be draws/stalemate.

(chickenNwaffles) #104

I can’t anymore, I just can’t…

Who is more dumb, Daerados or DarkAngle?

It’s actually kinda hard to tell rofl.

(DarkangelUK) #105

[QUOTE=chickenNwaffles;536456]I can’t anymore, I just can’t…

Who is more dumb, Daerados or DarkAngle?

It’s actually kinda hard to tell rofl.[/QUOTE]

coughAngelcough The irony

I told you he was the biggest nob end on the forum. Btw sway is staying, enjoy :slight_smile: I’m also suspecting my breakdown went over your head so we’ll leave it here, it’s been fun.

(Daerados) #106

[QUOTE=chickenNwaffles;536456]I can’t anymore, I just can’t…

Who is more dumb, Daerados or DarkAngle?

It’s actually kinda hard to tell rofl.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for being so stupidly self confident.

(chickenNwaffles) #107

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;536467]coughAngelcough The irony

I told you he was the biggest nob end on the forum. Btw sway is staying, enjoy :slight_smile: I’m also suspecting my breakdown went over your head so we’ll leave it here, it’s been fun.[/QUOTE]

Good thing I hardly play this game anymore :smiley:

I’ll leave the sniper balancing to you - as you are the more qualified opinion on this forum by far.

xd

(DarkangelUK) #108

[QUOTE=chickenNwaffles;536470]Good thing I hardly play this game anymore :smiley:

I’ll leave the sniper balancing to you - as you are the more qualified opinion on this forum by far.

xd[/QUOTE]

Thanks, goodbye :slight_smile:

(bulldawq) #109

@Daerados, been lurking this thread for some while and i gotta say, holy **** ur retarded. it looks like u have around 20h of gameplay, not more atleast, ur talking like u know more about vasili than the players that has been playing him for 200h+ and know what theyre talking about. ive heard countless pros talk about how stupidly op the instagib feature is (pkd, sick6, e*, Reason etc) and they all agree.
now onto ur phantom point. phantom is completely useless in everything else than public max lvl 5 servers. if u have teammates with somewhat of a brain u are completely unable to ‘sneak behind sniper with ur cloak’ cus u will be spotted and die instantly, phantom has no use whatsoever in the comp scene, thats why u dont see him beeing played ever in cups(not that id call cups in db the best pro scene ever but u get my point, its what we have/had)

edit: i do agree with u on the part where the phantom nerf was unneccesary, why? because he was just as **** before the nerf too.

@DarkangelUK, ur not good if u can ‘master’ the scope sway, its complete RNG, same with the scope in inaccuracy. so its no skill required, only luck, also ever heard about Promod? its fine if u havent but it was the competive scene for cod, it was a mod which the community made to balance every weapon because the devs didnt listen, and it was that mod that made it to the comp scene. on scopes there they completely removed the scope sway and noone complained about it ever.

(mti_) #110

also ever heard about Promod? its fine if u havent but it was the competive scene for cod, it was a mod which the community made to balance every weapon because the devs didnt listen, and it was that mod that made it to the comp scene. on scopes there they completely removed the scope sway and noone complained about it ever.

Do we really want to be in a position where out of 10 people 2 are busy playing an entirely different game?
I cant say this often enough but I really dont want this to turn into CoD or CS.
Right now Vasilli is too strong on a top level, we have heard this plenty now.
He is also an uninspired class that no1 enjoys playing against and even with. The only one having fun when a good Vasilli is in the game is that Vasilli.
The guy is bad and shouldnt be in the game to start with but that ship has sailed.
I honestly dont understand why people are asking for changes to him that are effectively buffs.

(Szakalot) #111

[QUOTE=mti_;536482]Do we really want to be in a position where out of 10 people 2 are busy playing an entirely different game?
I cant say this often enough but I really dont want this to turn into CoD or CS.
Right now Vasilli is too strong on a top level, we have heard this plenty now.
He is also an uninspired class that no1 enjoys playing against and even with. The only one having fun when a good Vasilli is in the game is that Vasilli.
The guy is bad and shouldnt be in the game to start with but that ship has sailed.
I honestly dont understand why people are asking for changes to him that are effectively buffs.[/QUOTE]

remove instagib is a huge buff indeed

(dlul) #112

Reviving is part of the core of SW games since the beginning (rtcw > et > etqw). If you don’t think it is a good thing you shouldn’t play that kind of games
A ratio of 4 with fragger is useless if you don’t help your team. Kills can and will be useless if you don’t gib
Instagibbing with a sniper from the other side of the map doesn’t make sense in a game where teamplay is required and encouraged.

You should go back to whatever dumb modern shooter you’re from or try to understand the game mechanics before making more posts about things you clearly don’t get.

I see people coming and telling “but fragger, he’s op aswell”:
1- fragger has to come close and commit to combat. a sniper doesn’t
2- I think his hp should be reduced to 130 / 140 and that the nades should be nerfed in some way (more damage decrease in the radius / less throwing range for ex). I’d even like him with the body (hp and speed) of skyhammer… :slight_smile:

(mti_) #113

By no means am I suggesting that everyone is asking to buff Vasilli, hence the brawl that has broken out in the comment section.
From a conceptual stand point I do not support insta gib and especially with the changes to revives I am fully with you on that one.
Insta gib gotta go. Not “picking” (sry just dont done watching TI5) Vasilli needs to be a conscious and viable decision rather than a statement about your faith in your Vasilli player’s abilities.

(Chux) #114

Instagib should go but the bigger problem I see is that it’s difficult to counter him. On more then I occasion Vassili players would headshot me while they were under sustained fire. I started shooting and scored a few head and bodyshots on them only to get instakilled :confused:

(Szakalot) #115

if instagib is removed you hae plenty of counters. vassili is much less likely to handle merc+medic without instagib. Killing one merc; you still have another to worry about, and if you dont focus on gibbing, youll have the other one back up.

Vassili is powerful in comp but also a little bit hit&miss. If you dont get a headshot in close quarters, you are likely dead; due to low hp and subpar machinepistol.

(mti_) #116

I agree. Currently he is the only merc that forces the enemy to pick a direct counter which happens to be himself.
I also know how furstrating it is that he can shoot accurately while moving and jumping. It is consistent with the rest of this game but a decision that other games did differently to deal with balance. The one thing I can honestly not stand most of all is that he can still be very good even under sustained fire. That should not be possible and should actually keep the Vasilli from standing in this one superior spot all the time. Imagine he would be a little like the rest of the mercs as in he has to move every now and then… that would be a thing!

(Phantomchan) #117

[QUOTE=mti_;536534]I agree. Currently he is the only merc that forces the enemy to pick a direct counter which happens to be himself.
I also know how furstrating it is that he can shoot accurately while moving and jumping. It is consistent with the rest of this game but a decision that other games did differently to deal with balance. The one thing I can honestly not stand most of all is that he can still be very good even under sustained fire. That should not be possible and should actually keep the Vasilli from standing in this one superior spot all the time. Imagine he would be a little like the rest of the mercs as in he has to move every now and then… that would be a thing![/QUOTE]
He moves when the objective is secured or failed to cover an objective :smiley:

(mti_) #118

Bumping this thread to ask whats going on.
We get a balance patch and 0 changes made to that guy?
Does that mean SD thinks he is fine as he is or they simply dont know what to do about it?

(chickenNwaffles) #119

[QUOTE=mti_;537237]Bumping this thread to ask whats going on.
We get a balance patch and 0 changes made to that guy?
Does that mean SD thinks he is fine as he is or they simply dont know what to do about it?[/QUOTE]

Well, Splash Damge thinks they are improving the guns by reducing spread and recoil by 5%, so I’m not sure what you expect.

They don’t know how to balance the guns in the game, and refuse to listen to people who actually are good at the game; instead they do what they did today - which isn’t necessarily bad, it’s still far from good.

(ragnak) #120

We should probably know better by now, but echo overlord is incontestable so our opinions are invalid. Knowing SD they would probably slap some spread on scoped moa for the lols so that might be for the better, at least its getting more balanced for low level players, i guess.