How to balance Vassili 101 + good patch notes that actually make senes

(Szakalot) #61

I’ve made a graph just for you!

vassili.jpg947×552 45 KB

I think the top graphs are self-explanatory.

Low skill ceiling: low skill required to ‘cap’ the power level
High skill ceiling (example): higher skill gives you consistently higher power levels.

Vassili as is now: higher skill gives you high power levels, but the power level goes insanely high at the top levels, making vassili OP at that level.

Chickenwaffles proposed changes: vassili is less powerful at the newb-level due to lack of instagib. Works fine for mid-skill level players who can benefit from lack of sway and quickscoping to balance out no instagib. Still works fine for high skilled snipers, but no longer the beast they are at the moment.

Actually, Chickenwaffle’s changes are beneficial for pub play too, since newb snipers can’t piss off other newb as easily either. Plus: instagib is annoying at any level, when you are on the receiving end.

I completely disagree with him on his ‘gameplay’ changes, but man knows what he is talking about when it comes to sniping, and considering he is (? - : P) one of the top snipers in the game only makes me want to listen to him more, especially when he talks about a considerable NERF.

EDIT: i noticed a little kink at the end of the bottom-right graph. I meant to indicate that at highest levels of play the differences will be a little smaller than they are now - but better snipers will still be able to exploit no sway and quickscope for crazy plays; so consider that last kink my personal view.

(DarkangelUK) #62

Give in dude, you whacked some nonsense together thats neither convincing nor properly articulated through factual testing.

(Szakalot) #63

sorry if its not properly articulated, but which part isn’t convincing? Can you specify what you disagree with?

(DarkangelUK) #64

No because you’re literally making stuff up based on your own theory crafting. Lay it to rest, really can’t be bothered discussing things further when it delves so low. I’ve agreed it would be interesting to test.

(Szakalot) #65

lol come on, which part is theory crafting; low skill ceiling vs high skill ceiling - you won’t even agree on that point?

Vassili gets OP at really high levels of play. Every single high-skilled sniper in this game agrees (from the ones we heard from).

Multiple high-level comp players have agreed as well (‘you need a good sniper of your own to counter the enemy OP sniper, otherwise you’re screwed’). Since Dirtycups #1 we saw snipers single-handedly win entire objectives. Still something you disagree with? Other voices from high-skill players arguing otherwise?

Chickenwaffle’s changes make sniper weaker. Instagib is a powerful feature, especially in 5v5. Disagree?

Chickenwaffle’s changes make snipers nicer to play with/against. No instagib - less annoyance. No sway/quickscope randomness - less annoyance. Disagree?

I wasn’t trolling you with the graphs, lol: i genuinely think they make sense :rolleyes:

(DarkangelUK) #66

Of course you think they make sense, you made them!

(ARTiER) #67

:stroggtapir:

(Szakalot) #68

i see what you did there:armadillochase:

(BioSnark) #69

I agree with most of the suggested changes in the OP and particularly this one,

[QUOTE=chickenNwaffles;536139]
Accuracy of all weapons (while hipfiring) has now been equalized across all type of movement: your gun shoots the same regardless if you are standing still, strafing, or jumping.[/QUOTE]

Enough realism-based lotto movement penalties in a game that claims to value movement.

edit:

Made sense to me.

(DarkangelUK) #70

It was X Y squiggly line, it’s not the… why do I even bother, it was the most pointless made up graphs with no factual info!! Holy ****, is this real?

Picard-Facepalm.jpg1440×1080 89.7 KB

oh wait actually it’s quite easy to pull stuff out your ass and parade it as fact instead of personal theory as described in my graph below


(chickenNwaffles) #71

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;536356]It was X Y squiggly line, it’s not the… why do I even bother, it was the most pointless made up graphs with no factual info!! Holy ****, is this real?

Picard-Facepalm.jpg1440×1080 89.7 KB

[/QUOTE]

He made pictures for you, because sometimes it’s harder for people with mental disorders to learn without proper visuals. :Q

(ARTiER) #72

OVERWATCH :stroggtapir: DIRTYBOMB. my story :wink:

(Daerados) #73

I don’t really believe that there are so much Vasilis complaining against their !main! (not people ocassionally playing him and doing good given day), I call this is a bs to strengthen your(not just you ofcourse) arguments :slight_smile:
Game is just in beta, people needs to get used to and learn to do something against it. Funny enough, that players are really fast getting used to things that benefits them (new infinite ressurection mechanic, unless someone finally will kill medic), but not to things that prevents them their benefits. Better to compain about it, no to found some counter measures. As I said, atleast one of you could say something to improve your mercs, not throwing dirt at others.

There was Phantom, who got nerfed (too much awareness was required), but his main purpose still exists - it’s easy to get behind enemy and take out key player(s). Ofcourse people don’t want to go a long way(requires patience - booring?), better use your cloak as armor to kill one-two guys and happily die, then go at forums and create a thread. But (BIG but), now we have a Redeye, who can cover his team in a efficent way. Ofcourse we still have a sensor and ofcourse if we manage to hit someones head in a split second before marker dissapers it will be rewarding and awesome for us - but again will be too op for enemy, not so rewarding with their spamming mercs. Survival instinct I guess :smiley:

I love reading your responses: :riflenade:

I just hope you won’t have something against their snipers :wink:

(DarkangelUK) #74

You’re managing ok, are you asking for some pictures? Did you use crayons on your computer screen now you need a new screen? Aw bless, just don’t eat the crayons.

(mti_) #75

In before Mustang swinging the hammer because some elements of the community know that flaming people will silence their oppinion by getting their threads locked.

(DarkangelUK) #76

hmmm curious, very curious indeed

Though I do like how the name calling and verbal put downs started long ago, but you only pipe up now when I post? Of course I said we should put the subject to rest as I’m not interested, and parties kept it going, then the biggest nob on the forum pipes in with something unrelated, but well, I guess its all me because you have a bee in your bonnet (or a hard on) for me.

I’m all for partial changes mentioned but with overkill instagib, e.g. Vas headshotting someone that’s below 50hp should instagib (that’s an example folks, not a definite number, could be 30, could be 20). It’s a ‘heavy weapon’ of sorts so should behave as so.

(ailmanki) #77

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;536364]hmmm curious, very curious indeed

Though I do like how the name calling and verbal put downs started long ago, but you only pipe up now when I post? Of course I said we should put the subject to rest as I’m not interested, and parties kept it going, then the biggest nob on the forum pipes in with something unrelated, but well, I guess its all me because you have a bee in your bonnet (or a hard on) for me.

I’m all for partial changes mentioned but with overkill instagib, e.g. Vas headshotting someone that’s below 50hp should instagib (that’s an example folks, not a definite number, could be 30, could be 20). It’s a ‘heavy weapon’ of sorts so should behave as so.[/QUOTE]

draw a graph please!

(Mustang) #78

Didn’t you read his profile?

He’s Scottish, they practically invented verbal abuse. :tongue:

We have a history of never staying on topic very long on this forum, but can usually manage to be civil to each other.

And btw I only lock threads because I don’t have enough hours in the day to spend deleting every offensive post, and some would even call this greater censorship because now the record of what was said has also disappeared, if you feel you’ve not made your point heard create a new thread and avoid falling into the same trap, I think you’ll find it very moderation light around here compared to many other developer forums.

For anyone that’s unsure, forum rules are here: http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/17086-Forum-Rules

(Szakalot) #79

you want to quantify skill and in-game power? seriously?

My proposed scale then:

Powah, as described by yourself at the end of the game

  • I’m OP
  • Get rekt
  • Ez
  • GG
  • damn you, no lifers!
  • I have terrible lag
  • you all hackz!

And skill level, as described by your friends:

  • gud
  • bad
  • you suck

Since you didn’t seem to get how whether ‘something’ being easy to do or not, has little to do with skill ceiling, i gave you graphs that aimed at illuminating the complicated shizzle.

Sniping is easy in the game. You sit in one spot, you shoot, you get kills. Anyone; without ever playing an FPS can try and do it.

Sniping effectively is not as easy in this game. And becomes harder when your opponents get better. But there is a point where the amount of dodging will no longer help the opponent, if your aim is good enough. That is the skill ceiling: maximum available power in the game, for a given amount of skill.
Skill ceiling is high for vassili. But it scales badly with skill, giving too much power at higher levels.

Skill ceiling (and floor) are about relationships between skill required to perform an action, and power level resulting from it.

(Szakalot) #80

[QUOTE=Daerados;536361]I don’t really believe that there are so much Vasilis complaining against their !main! (not people ocassionally playing him and doing good given day), I call this is a bs to strengthen your(not just you ofcourse) arguments :slight_smile:
Game is just in beta, people needs to get used to and learn to do something against it.[/quote]

no offense, but I don’t think you know what you are talking about. Game is out and about for 2+ years. I’d say that is enough time to determine if something is OP or not.