Over the past few weeks on the forum, the general opinion is that Phantom is super unbalanced. With each nerf and each buff, it would seem that Phantom either goes way too far towards the weaker side or way too far towards the stronger side.
There have been many suggestions as to how to balance Phantom but all of them seem to conflict with eachother. This poll should (hopefully) alleviate any confliction between Phantom balancing ideas.
I think it was really confusing concept this whole Phantom deal to start with. Maybe it was designed for teens already sitting in their Ninja pyjamas at home. Rest of the community couldn’t stand him and of course such overblown character got nerfed.
Now…he’s either like annoying little cousin of yours who you need to keep eye on so he doesn’t give you surprise wedgie or
cosplayer appearing from a time machine ending up to a wrong century and gunned down with ease by those who see him with eyes of pity and amusement. The gurkle sound Phantom makes when going to meet his maker just gives me laughs everytime. Poor dude.
I have absolutely no idea why Phantom doesn’t have that Katana for each of his loadouts. I think he should have that weapon as his “secondary ability” anyway. Of course it depends whether Phantom is supposed to be assassin or also direct melee character.
Taking the armor of from the cloak and making him bit less visible makes sense (maybe adding some time to cloak as well). However I don’t think he’s supposed to go and kill alone bunch of dudes. I see more of him as “surgically” removing specific opponent or causing havoc with surprise melee attack.
[quote=“crabbyDimension;63289”]I think it was really confusing concept this whole Phantom deal to start with. Maybe it was designed for teens already sitting in their Ninja pyjamas at home. Rest of the community couldn’t stand him and of course such overblown character got nerfed.
Now…he’s either like annoying little cousin of yours who you need to keep eye on so he doesn’t give you surprise wedgie or
cosplayer appearing from a time machine ending up to a wrong century and gunned down with ease by those who see him with eyes of pity and amusement. The gurkle sound Phantom makes when going to meet his maker just gives me laughs everytime. Poor dude.
I have absolutely no idea why Phantom doesn’t have that Katana for each of his loadouts. I think he should have that weapon as his “secondary ability” anyway. Of course it depends whether Phantom is supposed to be assassin or also direct melee character.
Taking the armor of from the cloak and making him bit less visible makes sense (maybe adding some time to cloak as well). However I don’t think he’s supposed to go and kill alone bunch of dudes. I see more of him as “surgically” removing specific opponent or causing havoc with surprise melee attack.[/quote]
First order of business, you must’ve been up against some pretty sh*t Phantom’s if they’re “like that annoying cousin”.
Secondly, You’re a pretty special kid if you think ANY merc is all melee. Phantom has a KEK-10. Given that the player can aim, Phantom could take down 2-3 enemies in a single gambit before he dies because the KEK-10 has really good stability and a large clip.
Thirdly, If you think all Phantoms need Katanas - you’re wrong. As a knife Phantom, I’ve scored legions higher than any Katana Phantoms I’ve played with who for the record have been up to level 19 (I’m level 7) purely because as a knife Phantom you actually have to think. High score as knife Phantom is 18734, My friend, a level 37 who uses Katana Phantom has only ever gotten 20922 points.
Increase movement speed, attack speed, don’t up cloak duration. Remove armour aspect give him a little health boost in stead of the armor(+10/20hp) and make him less visible
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”][quote=“crabbyDimension;63289”]I think it was really confusing concept this whole Phantom deal to start with. Maybe it was designed for teens already sitting in their Ninja pyjamas at home. Rest of the community couldn’t stand him and of course such overblown character got nerfed.
Now…he’s either like annoying little cousin of yours who you need to keep eye on so he doesn’t give you surprise wedgie or
cosplayer appearing from a time machine ending up to a wrong century and gunned down with ease by those who see him with eyes of pity and amusement. The gurkle sound Phantom makes when going to meet his maker just gives me laughs everytime. Poor dude.
I have absolutely no idea why Phantom doesn’t have that Katana for each of his loadouts. I think he should have that weapon as his “secondary ability” anyway. Of course it depends whether Phantom is supposed to be assassin or also direct melee character.
Taking the armor of from the cloak and making him bit less visible makes sense (maybe adding some time to cloak as well). However I don’t think he’s supposed to go and kill alone bunch of dudes. I see more of him as “surgically” removing specific opponent or causing havoc with surprise melee attack.[/quote]
First order of business, you must’ve been up against some pretty sh*t Phantom’s if they’re “like that annoying cousin”.
Secondly, You’re a pretty special kid if you think ANY merc is all melee. Phantom has a KEK-10. Given that the player can aim, Phantom could take down 2-3 enemies in a single gambit before he dies because the KEK-10 has really good stability and a large clip.
Thirdly, If you think all Phantoms need Katanas - you’re wrong. As a knife Phantom, I’ve scored legions higher than any Katana Phantoms I’ve played with who for the record have been up to level 19 (I’m level 7) purely because as a knife Phantom you actually have to think. High score as knife Phantom is 18734, My friend, a level 37 who uses Katana Phantom has only ever gotten 20922 points.
[/quote]
all loadouts should have katana so he won’t get overpowered speed with the other knives(only if he gets increased in movement speed, atm katana is his worst melee weapon imo)
[quote=“Shroed;63389”]Increase movement speed, attack speed, don’t up cloak duration. Remove armour aspect give him a little health boost in stead of the armor(+10/20hp) and make him less visible
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”][quote=“crabbyDimension;63289”]I think it was really confusing concept this whole Phantom deal to start with. Maybe it was designed for teens already sitting in their Ninja pyjamas at home. Rest of the community couldn’t stand him and of course such overblown character got nerfed.
Now…he’s either like annoying little cousin of yours who you need to keep eye on so he doesn’t give you surprise wedgie or
cosplayer appearing from a time machine ending up to a wrong century and gunned down with ease by those who see him with eyes of pity and amusement. The gurkle sound Phantom makes when going to meet his maker just gives me laughs everytime. Poor dude.
I have absolutely no idea why Phantom doesn’t have that Katana for each of his loadouts. I think he should have that weapon as his “secondary ability” anyway. Of course it depends whether Phantom is supposed to be assassin or also direct melee character.
Taking the armor of from the cloak and making him bit less visible makes sense (maybe adding some time to cloak as well). However I don’t think he’s supposed to go and kill alone bunch of dudes. I see more of him as “surgically” removing specific opponent or causing havoc with surprise melee attack.[/quote]
First order of business, you must’ve been up against some pretty sh*t Phantom’s if they’re “like that annoying cousin”.
Secondly, You’re a pretty special kid if you think ANY merc is all melee. Phantom has a KEK-10. Given that the player can aim, Phantom could take down 2-3 enemies in a single gambit before he dies because the KEK-10 has really good stability and a large clip.
Thirdly, If you think all Phantoms need Katanas - you’re wrong. As a knife Phantom, I’ve scored legions higher than any Katana Phantoms I’ve played with who for the record have been up to level 19 (I’m level 7) purely because as a knife Phantom you actually have to think. High score as knife Phantom is 18734, My friend, a level 37 who uses Katana Phantom has only ever gotten 20922 points.
[/quote]
all loadouts should have katana so he won’t get overpowered speed with the other knives(only if he gets increased in movement speed, atm katana is his worst melee weapon imo)
[/quote]
But knives aren’t over powered. It takes minimum 3 hit whilst full on hugging the enemy and Phantom is too slow to land repetitive hits. Welcome to Dirty Bomb, where melee doesn’t mean sh*t in close combat, unless you have the speed of Donald Trump’s media spread.
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]First order of business, you must’ve been up against some pretty sh*t Phantom’s if they’re “like that annoying cousin”.[/quote]They are out there. Mostly as funny sideshow. It’s like Monty Python scene.
“Now, watch me, I’m the great swordman of aaararrgggggghhhhhh!”
:lol:
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]Secondly, You’re a pretty special kid if you think ANY merc is all melee. [/quote]Did I say that somewhere?
I said that it’s design choice whether he’s an assassin for backstabbin or bad ass melee character.
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]Phantom has a KEK-10. Given that the player can aim, Phantom could take down 2-3 enemies in a single gambit before he dies because the KEK-10 has really good stability and a large clip.[/quote]So why he needs balancing?
I have seen also good Phantoms just like you described.
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]Thirdly, If you think all Phantoms need Katanas - you’re wrong. As a knife Phantom, I’ve scored legions higher than any Katana Phantoms I’ve played with who for the record have been up to level 19 (I’m level 7) purely because as a knife Phantom you actually have to think. High score as knife Phantom is 18734, My friend, a level 37 who uses Katana Phantom has only ever gotten 20922 points. [/quote]IMO Phantom’s Katana is his signature weapon just like Fragger has frag grenades Phantom has Katana. Never said knife couldn’t work.
phantom is fine. doesnt need a nerf or tweak
all phantom players = kids, all vasilli players = kids
everything i cant counter = kids
loosers-logic, bye
Phantom needs an ability so he can actually Recon. Not just running around in a half assed stealth.
Before I go into my post, as I’m sure others will see it and know that I’m an avid Phantom player. I’ve been playing Dirty Bomb since the Founders cards were about, and I’ve seen Phantom’s ups and downs. He was strong, nerfed to the ground, came back strong, and nerfed into oblivion once more. I’m sure the next time tweaks happen, the wonderful people at Splash Damage(love you guys) will be able to find a nice medium for our loved/hated spooky ghost man.
Which is why I’d like to see them go back to how he was with a mixture of closed-beta to open-beta. A comfortable medium to take some of the completely broken from closed-beta to implement some of the changes done to him. IE; he used to have 90% invisibility closed-beta during all times, now… his invisibility is roughly around 75% standing still, 65-70% walking, and +80% running.
People want Phantom to do his job, which is fine. I mean, any merc in the game should do their job, but Phantom’s only job was going through, not around, the front-lines normally. It allowed him to get behind people and they’d not notice him mid-fire fight. Which, is why his initial shield on his cloak was added, to assist him with such. It’s why they could’ve nerfed the shield like it is currently, and put the visibility where it was at. Hell, if they removed the shield, but placed him back at 90% invisibility. Because as everyone knows… well, right now he’s a guy running around with what’s basically a sheet covered in some sponges bought at the dollar store. Absorbs some damage, and barely cloaks him. If they put his visibility back where it was prior to this nerf, and kept the current shield, I’d be happy.
I’ve also suggested he gets a second ability similar to something Payday 2-esque where he can ‘spot’ enemies, marking them through walls, showing their outlines for a set amount of time, and it’d work on a charge system, and can only be used when he’s cloaked.
Now, onto keeping the SMG or removing it on him. I’m a bit partial on this matter. I liked him when he was melee and a semi-automatic pistol. A katana swing and a few handgun bullets knocked a target out, and you kept going. That’s how it should be. That’s why I feel the cooldown should be 6-8 seconds and his visibility is turned back to what it was pre-nerf. If not tweaked to 90% sure, keep the SMGs, but, if they do put it back on 90, I loved the katana and handgun style he was shown with on the Scrubs trailer, and played with during closed-beta.
On another note. Redeye’s been released, and one of the things said about our favorite solid-snake looking Recon was;
“Better yet, any enemies near the center of Redeye’s vision will be Spotted, including invisible Phantoms”
They keep pushing that Phantom is invisible, when they, along with 99% of the database, even people who didn’t like Phantom can see he’s far from such. Maybe this is a hint at changes to his cloak? I don’t know. Only time can tell.
That’s the end of my little post. Of course, I hope everyone has a wonderful day and of course, keep playing Dirty.
[quote=“deerYear;63478”]phantom is fine. doesnt need a nerf or tweak
all phantom players = kids, all vasilli players = kids
everything i cant counter = kids
loosers-logic, bye[/quote]
What is your problem? If you don’t want to talk about Phantom f*ck off. No one is forcing you to come here.
P.S. Easy af to counter Vas and Phantom atm.
[quote=“crabbyDimension;63460”][quote=“gg2ez;63360”]First order of business, you must’ve been up against some pretty sh*t Phantom’s if they’re “like that annoying cousin”.[/quote]They are out there. Mostly as funny sideshow. It’s like Monty Python scene.
“Now, watch me, I’m the great swordman of aaararrgggggghhhhhh!”
:lol:
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]Secondly, You’re a pretty special kid if you think ANY merc is all melee. [/quote]Did I say that somewhere?
I said that it’s design choice whether he’s an assassin for backstabbin or bad ass melee character.
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]Phantom has a KEK-10. Given that the player can aim, Phantom could take down 2-3 enemies in a single gambit before he dies because the KEK-10 has really good stability and a large clip.[/quote]So why he needs balancing?
I have seen also good Phantoms just like you described.
[quote=“gg2ez;63360”]Thirdly, If you think all Phantoms need Katanas - you’re wrong. As a knife Phantom, I’ve scored legions higher than any Katana Phantoms I’ve played with who for the record have been up to level 19 (I’m level 7) purely because as a knife Phantom you actually have to think. High score as knife Phantom is 18734, My friend, a level 37 who uses Katana Phantom has only ever gotten 20922 points. [/quote]IMO Phantom’s Katana is his signature weapon just like Fragger has frag grenades Phantom has Katana. Never said knife couldn’t work.
[/quote]
The whole great swordsman thing wouldn’t be happening if you used a knife.
In regards to the balancing issue it all lies within cloak, speed and health. Phantom’s cloak making him ‘almost invisible’ really just isn’t ‘almost invisible’, It’s more like Phantom is ‘almost visible’ and it impairs the mindless Katana Phantom’s ability to forward flank. This is an issue because the Katana is the stock weapon. I like the Katana so much more than the knife but it’s just so impractical atm.
No, Phantom’s Katana is not his signature, His signature weapon is his ability to evade an enemy’s vision, but now he can’t do that without getting pinned to the ground by half the enemy team.
[quote=“Ronan;63618”]Before I go into my post, as I’m sure others will see it and know that I’m an avid Phantom player. I’ve been playing Dirty Bomb since the Founders cards were about, and I’ve seen Phantom’s ups and downs. He was strong, nerfed to the ground, came back strong, and nerfed into oblivion once more. I’m sure the next time tweaks happen, the wonderful people at Splash Damage(love you guys) will be able to find a nice medium for our loved/hated spooky ghost man.
Which is why I’d like to see them go back to how he was with a mixture of closed-beta to open-beta. A comfortable medium to take some of the completely broken from closed-beta to implement some of the changes done to him. IE; he used to have 90% invisibility closed-beta during all times, now… his invisibility is roughly around 75% standing still, 65-70% walking, and +80% running.
People want Phantom to do his job, which is fine. I mean, any merc in the game should do their job, but Phantom’s only job was going through, not around, the front-lines normally. It allowed him to get behind people and they’d not notice him mid-fire fight. Which, is why his initial shield on his cloak was added, to assist him with such. It’s why they could’ve nerfed the shield like it is currently, and put the visibility where it was at. Hell, if they removed the shield, but placed him back at 90% invisibility. Because as everyone knows… well, right now he’s a guy running around with what’s basically a sheet covered in some sponges bought at the dollar store. Absorbs some damage, and barely cloaks him. If they put his visibility back where it was prior to this nerf, and kept the current shield, I’d be happy.
I’ve also suggested he gets a second ability similar to something Payday 2-esque where he can ‘spot’ enemies, marking them through walls, showing their outlines for a set amount of time, and it’d work on a charge system, and can only be used when he’s cloaked.
Now, onto keeping the SMG or removing it on him. I’m a bit partial on this matter. I liked him when he was melee and a semi-automatic pistol. A katana swing and a few handgun bullets knocked a target out, and you kept going. That’s how it should be. That’s why I feel the cooldown should be 6-8 seconds and his visibility is turned back to what it was pre-nerf. If not tweaked to 90% sure, keep the SMGs, but, if they do put it back on 90, I loved the katana and handgun style he was shown with on the Scrubs trailer, and played with during closed-beta.
On another note. Redeye’s been released, and one of the things said about our favorite solid-snake looking Recon was;
“Better yet, any enemies near the center of Redeye’s vision will be Spotted, including invisible Phantoms”
They keep pushing that Phantom is invisible, when they, along with 99% of the database, even people who didn’t like Phantom can see he’s far from such. Maybe this is a hint at changes to his cloak? I don’t know. Only time can tell.
That’s the end of my little post. Of course, I hope everyone has a wonderful day and of course, keep playing Dirty.[/quote]
Definitely, Phantom’s cloak is nowhere near as good as it should be. Cloak needs to be upgraded.
They need to remove the Recon description from him, he’s a perfectly fine fragging* class and doesn’t have any spotting abilities. *(They’re called “weapon specialists” in DB right?).
People see recon class, visibility cloak, and katana, and make the logical assumption that he’s a stealthy stabby person, instead of the correct assumption that he’s superb at gunfights and sabotage. Sure, he’ll probably never replace Fragger in competitive popularity, but neither will most classes.
I realize some people would prefer that he be a super stealth melee Merc, but he’s really not built for it, nor has he been since his recent release. Not even all his loadouts have his Katana, and with his level of invisibility he’s clearly not meant to be impossible to see. The cloak is there to give him the advantage when beginning firefights and joining firefights where people are distracted, and it works very well at it.
As a melee-centric merc, Phantom will never be more than a Merc that kills lone enemies or dies after a single kill. Against an organized group a melee phantom will likely never kill more than a single person in a group before he dies. As it is he can harass and engage/disengage safely making for a well rounded fast moving killer Merc.
These are just my thoughts on Phantom after playing him during free-rotation. I found it easy to get high K/Ds, support objectives, and aid the team, without using melee for anything more than finishing downed enemies. I personally didn’t even use the Katana loadout.
If you have a counterpoint or find you disagree with my views, please don’t just drop a dislike and move on, and instead post a constructive reply explaining where you disagree and why these aspects of Phantom should be different.
I think Phantom’s fine the way he is currently. I’ve played him in a few games and regularly get compliments on using him differently than the retarded I’m-gonna-charge-right-at-people behavior that got him nerfed and makes him feel underpowered.
This really wouldn’t change the way Phantom fights (which isn’t the problem), merely add more tools to the arsenal. Being able to track that one player would help Phantom create more situational awareness for the player AND their teammates. Additionally, even acting as an ambush fragger, passively relaying enemy location/count via close proximity would greatly enhance what he brings to his team without reverting his gameplay mechanics to braindead level.
Add a little antenna sticking off Phantom’s armor and it’ll all start to make sense.
@EtherFox There’s no problem with wanting to charge in as long as you have a legitimate plan to actually win. If your teammate can reasonably wound the enemy there’s no reason why you can’t quickly run in and quick knife an finish off with a couple rounds.
I totally agree with what you said about Phantom needing more use ability, probably not that way though.
For me, apart to fixing the katana stab, its shorter than basic attack, the only think I’ll do to him is making a complete cloak, full invisibility, still can be heard, but not see without spotters or IR, that not only will make Phantom useful, it even will make ppl use spotters in smarter ways.
Please no. Complete invisibility is definately OP.[/quote]
Woah, OK guys, let’s turn it down a notch. 100% invisible is uncounterable, We don’t want uncounterable.
We need the cloak to be slightly less visible to the point where people actually find **new Phantom’s at least ‘semi-challenging’.
Honestly…I think near invisible cloak, like 10% visible under all circumstances is the way to go, so you really have to look for him.