Hitsounds? Say it ain't so

(signofzeta) #21

I too play Wolf ET as is, and RTCW out of the box. No tweaks. Tweaks are for losers.

Remember that ET comic where the guy tweaked his aim so that his vertical look is very slow?

(McAfee) #22

OK, lets delay the game a few extra months just to work on hit sounds, maybe by 2008 we’d get it right.

…where are my sarcasm tags anyways?

I’m sure whatever is delivered will already be well thought, and have a good acceptance ratio. If not, this is something that can be patched easily, it’s just a minor feature.

From the start, there will probably be a cvar to disable it on the client side. I like the idea of a server side option to control this, if that is never added, you could do it thru PB.

(leifhv) #23

So is the crosshair…do you disable that also?

(SubstandardJones) #24

Crosshairs are in the game because there is no aiming down the sight for most weapons. A crosshair is a major difference from ETPRO-style hitsounds.

With ETPRO Hitsounds I can snipe someone with a thompson from 200 yards away even if that person is hiding behind smoke or other concealment. All I have to do is shoot in that general direction until I start hearing the hitsounds. How does that make the game fun for you?

There’s a difference between the unrealistic decisions that make the game better such as health packs and reviving and the ones that make the game worse like Hitsounds or Double-Jumping. One makes the game more strategic and more team oriented, the other makes bad players think they’re great because they have magic powers.

Players should not have the magical ability to tell when they’ve scored an accurate hit regardless of distance or line of sight.

I don’t think I’d even care so much if it the ETPRO style hitsounds worked for any shot within a certain range, but the fact that they go off no matter where you are is absolutely ridiculous. I’ve played matches where I’ve figured out the enemy was near the guns on Oasis or near the Fuel Dump because I heard the hitsound of my landmines going off even though I was half a map away. That’s just dumb, and what’s worse it annoys me that I’d be putting myself at a disadvantage not to use it.

If it is a server-side option, that’d definitely be better, although I’d much rather that it wasn’t added in to begin with, because most servers would never turn it off (much like most servers have XP-Save, level-4 carryover, and all sorts of other things that make the game worse.)

I’m glad that you feel like a wonderful player thanks to your hitsounds, but I much prefer ET without players having that psychic ability.

(iwound) #25

Hitsounds are fun, because they give feed back as to how well im doing.
Hitsounds are not magical, shooting someone in real life makes a sound.
like “you bastard you shot me”
Its a game

(SubstandardJones) #26

Shooting someone who’s hiding behind thick foliage a few hundred feet in the distance is not going to provide you with a sound. Hitsounds negate the usefulness of concealment quite a bit. There’s a major difference between firing randomly into a smokescreen to discourage enemies and strafing back and forth until you get the hitsound ping.

It’s not like there wasn’t a sound if you shot someone within hearing distance in the normal game. The other players did make a sound when you shot them. We’re talking about the etpro hitsounds where you get a loud pinging sound to tell you you’ve hit your enemy no matter where you are in relation to them. That is dumb and that is magical.

But hey I understand that to many players, “fun” means anything that makes them feel like they’re a better player, regardless of whether or not it’s true. I’m sure it would be “fun” for you to be able to see through walls, fly, or dodge bullets, so why not add that in too? I hope you have lots of fun playing on servers that let you have adrenaline and a flak jacket while you run around with a flamethrower. You go enjoy that, just keep it as a mod and not the main game.

There’s a certain balance between realism, fun, and challenge in a game like this, and hitsounds, the ETPRO style ones anyway, ruin that balance. They take away realism and challenge for something that (to you, not me) is fun. Personally, I find the challenge of the normal ET hitsounds to be just realistic and challenging enough that it’s fun to play.

(DerSaidin) #27

Hitsounds are good.

Arguing on realism for games is stupid. Gameplay is important, not realism.

This is particularly true for the ET line. Best gameplay ever, lacking in some realism - which is awesome. Gameplay is far more important.

(SubstandardJones) #28

ET has great gameplay and it did not have etpro style hitsounds when it was made, nor did it need them. It’s not a question so much of realism, it’s a question of challenge, tactics, and fun. It’s not fun to have magical knowledge of when any of your weapons has hit the other player.

Most of you guys seem to like Hitsounds purely because it makes the game easier for you. Easy does not equal fun, at least not to me. I like a challenge and I like having to use my wits and skill to play the game. What kind of first person shooter would purposefully make it so concealment is a largely worthless tactic?

ET wasn’t created with hitsounds and it certainly didn’t need them. I just hope Quake Wars is the same way.

(kamikazee) #29

Imo he was complaining on a gameplay thing.

Detecting players in a bush by shooting one bullet in it IS a flaw of hitsounds.

Now, back to the topic: is the prize of this flaw high enough to compensate for the “I hit him” benefit hitsounds offer? If they do, hitsounds should be removed.

I for one used them properly and enjoyed them to see how accurate my aim was. I wouldn’t really miss them though.

#30

Well put Der’saidin. ^^ I agree 100%.

(Stone) #31

If you’re going for realism you should also remove Crosshairs, Heads Up Displays and Respawning. You don’t have those functions in the real world…So chuck them out for the sake of realism!

Enemy Territory : Quake Wars is not a War Simulation game and as such is not subject to the realism argument.

Also, in all honesty, I’ve never seen a War Simulator that I’ve ever wanted to play. The gameplay is too slow and usually imbalanced. That’s what games are really about, isn’t it? Gameplay? Did you even stop to think how hit beeps positively effect gameplay? No? Didn’t think so.

(SubstandardJones) #32

Hooray! My apparent campaign against all things unrealistic in Enemy Territory games is complete! I’m so glad my thousands of posts about how much I want ET to be completely realistic have succeeded in changing your mind.

Because my arguing against hitsounds is exactly the same as wanting the game to be completely realistic in every single way, despite my saying otherwise several times. Your uncanny ability to realize I must have been lying when I said things like health packs and reviving were good and enhanced gameplay is truly astounding!

Enemy Territory : Quake Wars is not a War Simulation game and as such is not subject to the realism argument.

Oh man! I’m so embarrassed about making all those arguments about making the game as realistic as possible now! I wish I could take back the scores upon scores of times I said the game should be perfectly realistic. I’m so stupid!

Also, in all honesty, I’ve never seen a War Simulator that I’ve ever wanted to play. The gameplay is too slow and usually imbalanced. That’s what games are really about, isn’t it? Gameplay? Did you even stop to think how hit beeps positively effect gameplay?

Well I–

No?

If you’d just let me–

Didn’t think so.

No, you very clearly didn’t.

Really it’s my fault for saying that hitsounds were (among other things) an unrealistic feature. Apparently people are unable to do anything but focus on that word and not the actual argument I make. That’s cool though, you do a much better job replying to the arguments I made in your head. Kudos, friend!

For the record, the only effect that might be considered positive from hitsounds is that every player is likely to be more accurate. Since the differences in skill between people who are already accurate and the people who aren’t is usually the same (eg: A player who had 25% accuracy goes up to 35% and one with 15% goes up to 25%) then that effect is pretty much negated, and all it does is make you feel better about yourself. To me, the downside of ruining a great deal of the strategy and tactics of the game is not outweighed by an illusory increase in player skill.

But don’t pay any attention to that. Focus on how I said “unrealistic” two paragraphs ago! You can’t let me get away with that!

(leifhv) #33

Yes, the crosshair is there for a reason…just like the hitsounds. Crosshairs are there to help you aim…the hitsounds are there to let you know if you are hitting what you’re aiming for because unlike RL there is not much of an visible indication that you’re hitting someone in ET.

Logically there is no difference between the two.

Just saying it doesn’t make it true…in the context of the current discussion there is no difference.

There is no easy answer to that…I prefer hitsound, you don’t.

(leifhv) #34

But the hit sounds adds possibilities for other strategies and tactics so I guess it evens out in that regard at least.

(leifhv) #35

Actually, if everyone is using hit sounds simple logic dictates that the game is not ‘easier’ for anyone since everyone has the same advantage.

Different maybe, but not easier. Well, unless someone is fanatic enough to disable hit sound for themselves when everyone else has them turned on… :stuck_out_tongue:

(SubstandardJones) #36

Except the hitsounds were added after the fact by a mod. Splashdamage did not originally find it necessary to add that KIND of hitsound in the game. The default and much more subtle hitsounds were just fine.

Crosshairs are there to help you aim…the hitsounds are there to let you know if you are hitting what you’re aiming for because unlike RL there is not much of an visible indication that you’re hitting someone in ET.

That’s why you had the subtle ET hitsounds that you could hear if you were shooting at someone close up.

Did all of you guys really have so much difficulty in shooting people before hitsounds? Was it impossible to get more than a 20% accuracy or something? Were you all gnashing your teeth in frustration because you had absolutely no way of knowing if you were hitting someone?

Cause I kind of figured out I was hitting someone when they died, but that’s just me. I’m weird like that.

Logically there is no difference between the two.

Logically there’s a huge difference between the two. Crosshairs are a simple fix for a lack of iron sights, and don’t give the player any true tactical advantage. Playing with your crosshair turned off is in no way putting you at a disadvantage to other players.

Hitsounds (and again, I only mean ETPRO style hitsounds) are a magical ability that allows you to determine accuracy through concealment, incredible distance, and from beyond barriers. It’s not just that they’re hitsounds, it’s that they are extremely poorly implemented hitsounds.

[quote]
A crosshair is a major difference from ETPRO-style hitsounds.

Just saying it doesn’t make it true…[/quote]

Yes I know that just saying it doesn’t make it true. That’s why I had several long paragraphs explaining why I thought that was true.

I’m not generally one to be accused of making simple declarations without making arguments to back them. LongWindedJones, they sometimes call me, but that was actually from my old days as a sailor on a clipper ship. No one could catch the wind quite as long as I could, matey. Arrr.

(SubstandardJones) #37

But the hit sounds adds possibilities for other strategies and tactics so I guess it evens out in that regard at least.[/quote]

Strategies and tactics like sniping someone from across the map using a sub machine gun, or realizing that random hitsound pings you’ve just heard are your landmines being destroyed back at the objective so you’d better run back. Throwing a grenade into a room while you check another one for a hidden enemy and using the sound when you do 5 points of damage to him to alert you to his presence.

That’s not evening out, to me. Most of that stuff is close to an exploit, as far as I’m concerned.

Really I’m not wanting to get into a debate over realism versus arcade-style gameplay. ET shouldn’t be completely realistic, but there has to be a line somewhere. The non-modded version of ET does not feature the ridiculous ETPRO hitsounds, and I think there’s a reason for that. It’s unecessary and takes away a large part of the game’s strategy. Covert Ops smoke alone is far less useful thanks to hitsounds.

“What’s that little speck across the Desert Temple map and about three hundred yards away? Let me shoot a bullet at it. PLONK. Hey whaddya know, it’s a sniper trying to hide behind a bush. So much for that! PLONK PLONK PLONK PLONK”

You’re negating legitimate tactics of concealment and cover and adding in new and wildly unrealistic (uh oh, I shouldn’t use that word) tactics of having an instinctual knowledge of weapon damage.

And you say it yourself:

Actually, if everyone is using hit sounds simple logic dictates that the game is not ‘easier’ for anyone since everyone has the same advantage.

Different maybe, but not easier. Well, unless someone is fanatic enough to disable hit sound for themselves when everyone else has them turned on…

First, I’ve never claimed to disable them myself when everyone else has them turned off. That just puts me at an extreme disadvantage to everyone else. Playing with hitsounds makes me far more effective than playing with out it, but it doesn’t make the game any more fun to me. It’s a crutch that makes me feel like I’m cheating.

Secondly, you’re right, across the board the advantages pretty much negate themselves. Unfortunately the detrimental effect of hitsounds (the nullification of concealment and distance) isn’t negated. So you gain nothing and you lose some viable tactics. How fun.

(Gringo) #38

Tbh, as far as im aware landmine’s do not generate hit sounds. I am almost 99% certain about this. And to suggest that being half a map away u can tell that someone has hit a specific landmine out of the number u have is foolish stupid nonsense talk.

Also, what difference does it make if everyone has hit sounds and dont give me no crap about “well why doesnt everyone just use wall hacks” cuz in that case u may as well make maps with no walls.

Imo very rarely can u snipe with an thompson or mp from across a map and kill someone as it dont do as much damage. Also, I find that just because u know u are hitting someone in a firefight doesnt make it any easier to kill them.

(DerSaidin) #39

Do you guys see players walking round shooting every bit of bush that players can hide behind? No. Only if they’re pretty sure the person is there.

You still need to have a fair idea where they are.
Its not like enemies show up on radar because hitsounds exist :confused:

SubstandardJones talking about landmine hitsounds… Well, riflenades had hitsounds at one point in ETPro. I don’t think landmines ever did (they certainly dont now). You clearly haven’t played much ET (ETPro is, of coruse the only real ET :D)…

No one uses covert smoke anyway, and hitsounds or not, you can still pump bullets at the corner you know is through the smoke. They really don’t have this negative effect your feeling.

(Dazzamac) #40

Right the game is being made and tested by gamers, many of SD have plenty of experience at a competition level. They have an invite beta where they claim to have invited even more gamers, therefore I have full faith that if it passes the QC of SD and high ranking gamers already it’ll do a nub like me nicely. I play with hitsounds, I like them, I like the feeling you get when you hear a string of tings from shootin somebody in the face.
Back before christmas I was at one of the famed VPL Lan’s but errol the guy with the server didn’t show. So Fattakin hosted the server on his new machine but he couldn’t get ETPro running, we were all worried about not having hitsounds for the lan and how it would affect us.
Aim went up, everyone was taking care to place the shots correctly at long range and at short range it makes no difference anyway. If you hit someone you can visually see the hit with a bit of blood splatter if you look closely at any range. Hitsounds aren’t there to improve your aim, they’re there to allow you to take your focus off the shooting a bit and allow you to be more aware of what else is goin on in your screen.

Q11 - Will we have hit sounds like in ET Pro with headshots having a different sound then a hit on the torso?

Yes. We have two different hit-sounds for shooting players (defined by head and torso), and a further sound for vehicles and deployables. The differences are quite subtle (to ensure accessibility for new players), but different enough that hard-core players will pick up on them.

This already tells me ts not going to be the same as ETPro cause the sounds couldn’t be any more different in it. So if the sounds themselves have changed, maybe the whole range is screwed as well so this entire thread is whingin about nothing.