Hit Reg

(Sun_Sheng) #1

Sorry for the watermark, my website does it automatically, i’ll try and get rid of it…

This is a video from last night and although it’s not the greatest example of locked on aiming, it makes the point. Random 1v1, down like a sack of spuds, and all I got was one bodyshot for 11hp. Any ideas why? outside of lag comp problems… because I play most nights with a reported 7 ping in game and about 19 in browser off a 160 down 12 up connection?

You can go frame by frame on the video but for the sake of argument, i’ve pulled a few screenies

[video=youtube_share;Dw2aXhQ5L7k]http://youtu.be/Dw2aXhQ5L7k[/video]


starts off with us both aiming wide, but he’s missing by a mile and i’m taking hits.


Here’s a nice headie for me, he’s probably got the same, but mine shows hitting well wide right off the scenery


Here we’re both missing by a distance, but for some reason my merc needs to go on the Atkins because i’m getting hit


Here i’m getting a nice body shot in, but i’m still getting hit despite the opponent aiming well wide


In the end, here i’m getting another body shot while being missed by a fair way…and down I go

The end result? I got one bodyshot…waddup wi dat?! :o
Larger images @ http://ianfurniss.photoshelter.com/gallery/db/G0000gYLO3TbfgX4

(Humate) #2

I downloaded the hi res version of your video - you only hit him once.
The first shot you hit crossing him, the second attempt coming back the opposite direction missed.
He then dodged every other attempt after that, and finished you off ducking while youre aiming at head height.

The only awkward thing about the fight is the initial confrontation, where his model looks like hes aiming elsewhere yet youre getting hit. On slowdown, it looks like he’s shooting the ground.

(Sun_Sheng) #3

Cheers …exactly my point. I hit him once, but at various times my cursor on a frame by frame is all over him. I can believe with spread and stuff that some of those times were a miss, as I say, it ain’t the greatest aiming. even so, putting it all together, i’m sure I deserved more than one hit, and i’m sure based on the screenshots of where he is aiming and the video, that his aim wasn’t the something like 5-600% better it would need to be to hit me with what? 5 or 6 body shots and a couple of headies?! Am I not moving out of the way of his aim? It sure looks like it to me… :confused:

(INF3RN0) #4

This doesn’t seem like a reg issue though…

(Sun_Sheng) #5

Then what would you put it down to? Personally I’m suspecting the lag comp. I think there’s two problems here. One is that I think that although my aim is erratic, more than one bullet should have hit i:e i could handle losing the 1v1 if I’d taken him down to say 50% . The other problem is that when I go frame by frame and freeze it to see where he’s aiming, I can’t understand how I’ve been hit the something like 8 times it takes to out someone down.

(ailmanki) #6

You don’t see what he saw. It’s more like an interpolation. Same as when your specing. This is one of the issues in this game.

(Stinger) #7

It really seems like you should get more than one hit from that fight. Is it usually like this for you? I have similar problem, but not to such extent. It doesnt happen just in random fights, but for a whole server. Sometimes game feels ‘laggy’ and I can’t hit sh**, another time hit reg is great and I feel like a killing machine. I have stable 15 ping in game (50 in a server browser) yet game feels like back when I had 80 ping on the first Nexon’s servers

(Anti) #8

I see two oddities, the first is what Humate called out, the third person model of your enemy looks out of sync with where he’s looking at the start, which is kind of bad. The second is I hear a hit beep right as you die but see no hit indicator on your crosshair, which seems odd.

What I can’t tell is the spread you have for those shots where you think there is bad reg, as you have the spread indicating part of the cross hair off. The machine pistol is pretty inaccurate so I suspect you’re missing due to that, but it’s hard to tell without any feedback into the state of your spread. Personally I can never play like that, I have to have that feedback so I keep the indicators on :slight_smile:

I’ll download the video and take another look with a frame by frame scrub. I’ve done this for a few community videos now and in most cases it is spread and aim that is the issue rather than reg, it’s just not always easy to notice at high speed.

(Sun_Sheng) #9

Thx Stinger … Yes, more often than not it’s like this for me and I can go from night to night or game to game swapping from great to bad aim. The only pattern I can find is it tends to happen when new players come on or leave, or I swap sides and face different opponents with presumably different pings. Unfortunately they also have different skills etc so it’s hard to know whether the fault is my own or the game.

Ultimately, with that aim i’m not even really expecting to win the fight, but one hit?! and that was as Humate said, when I opened up and got a hit in. Everything else missed

(Sun_Sheng) #10

[QUOTE=Anti;506611]I see two oddities, the first is what Humate called out, the third person model of your enemy looks out of sync with where he’s looking at the start, which is kind of bad. The second is I hear a hit beep right as you die but see no hit indicator on your crosshair, which seems odd.

What I can’t tell is the spread you have for those shots where you think there is bad reg, as you have the spread indicating part of the cross hair off. The machine pistol is pretty inaccurate so I suspect you’re missing due to that, but it’s hard to tell without any feedback into the state of your spread. Personally I can never play like that, I have to have that feedback so I keep the indicators on :slight_smile:

I’ll download the video and take another look with a frame by frame scrub. I’ve done this for a few community videos now and in most cases it is spread and aim that is the issue rather than reg, it’s just not always easy to notice at high speed.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Anti… I’ve got better quality videos I can access after work if you want to look at those. That was just done off shadowplay and then converted with the first free thing I could find so I could get it uploaded without the other circa 9 minutes.

I’ll have a look at my config tonight and see if I can switch back on the indicator although i’m not sure if i’ll get any playing time in to test it. For my own sanity i’ll also try and take a look at some shots into a wall with the machine pistol so I can see how it spreads. My thinking was that spread had been tightened to such an extent that even if I was aiming at chest for example, i’d still hit an arm or a neck/nut. If i’m wrong in that then that could also explain some frustration

(Anti) #11

I scrubbed through the video again and looking at the ammo counter to see when shots are fired most of the time you are just off target I’m afraid :frowning:

I think the cut and thrust of this issue is that many people nowadays are used to targets that move less erratically than in DB and weapons that spread a lot, which can tend to offset missed shots every now and again. Plus a lot of games do still kill quicker than DB, so you don’t need to track a target anywhere near as long or as accurately.

As an example a character in DB goes from rest to full speed in a direction in around 150ms, meaning a ‘full’ change of direction takes about 300ms. Human reaction time is about 150ms so ‘dancing’ is really pushing your reactions to track a target to the limit.

When I scrub videos what I tend to see happening is the player compensates for the last change the target made at just about the time the target starts to change direction again, having the effect of your crosshair constantly crossing the target. If the next round isn’t fired at the exact point your dancing target cross the crosshair then you’re going to miss.

The two obvious solutions to this are bigger hit boxes (we’ve already changed this a few times) or slightly slower accelerations to max speed, although in the past when the latter was much higher players didn’t like how responsive the game felt.

Other options would be higher rates of fire on the weapons, but I think things would start to feel really odd at that point as less mobile enemies would melt in a fraction of a second :stroggbanana:

(spookify) #12

[QUOTE=Anti;506611]I see two oddities, the first is what Humate called out, the third person model of your enemy looks out of sync with where he’s looking at the start, which is kind of bad. The second is I hear a hit beep right as you die but see no hit indicator on your crosshair, which seems odd.

What I can’t tell is the spread you have for those shots where you think there is bad reg, as you have the spread indicating part of the cross hair off. The machine pistol is pretty inaccurate so I suspect you’re missing due to that, but it’s hard to tell without any feedback into the state of your spread. Personally I can never play like that, I have to have that feedback so I keep the indicators on :slight_smile:

I’ll download the video and take another look with a frame by frame scrub. I’ve done this for a few community videos now and in most cases it is spread and aim that is the issue rather than reg, it’s just not always easy to notice at high speed.[/QUOTE]

The Model not looking at you and the hit beeps as you die happens all the time… And I mean all the time… The looks isnt very smooth either… :frowning:

(spookify) #13

[QUOTE=Anti;506620]I scrubbed through the video again and looking at the ammo counter to see when shots are fired most of the time you are just off target I’m afraid :frowning:

I think the cut and thrust of this issue is that many people nowadays are used to targets that move less erratically than in DB and weapons that spread a lot, which can tend to offset missed shots every now and again. Plus a lot of games do still kill quicker than DB, so you don’t need to track a target anywhere near as long or as accurately.

As an example a character in DB goes from rest to full speed in a direction in around 150ms, meaning a ‘full’ change of direction takes about 300ms. Human reaction time is about 150ms so ‘dancing’ is really pushing your reactions to track a target to the limit.

When I scrub videos what I tend to see happening is the player compensates for the last change the target made at just about the time the target starts to change direction again, having the effect of your crosshair constantly crossing the target. If the next round isn’t fired at the exact point your dancing target cross the crosshair then you’re going to miss.

The two obvious solutions to this are bigger hit boxes (we’ve already changed this a few times) or slightly slower accelerations to max speed, although in the past when the latter was much higher players didn’t like how responsive the game felt.

Other options would be higher rates of fire on the weapons, but I think things would start to feel really odd at that point as less mobile enemies would melt in a fraction of a second :stroggbanana:[/QUOTE]

RLRLRL… Its hards not to do it… And when you do you get this miss shot, no hit register feel…

(Anti) #14

The beep in the case of this video, at the end, was actually a hit. It just seems the UI is killing the hit indicators on the crosshair when you’re in the incapped state so you don’t see them. That’s something we’ll need to fix.

(spookify) #15

[QUOTE=Anti;506620]I scrubbed through the video again and looking at the ammo counter to see when shots are fired most of the time you are just off target I’m afraid :frowning:

I think the cut and thrust of this issue is that many people nowadays are used to targets that move less erratically than in DB and weapons that spread a lot, which can tend to offset missed shots every now and again. Plus a lot of games do still kill quicker than DB, so you don’t need to track a target anywhere near as long or as accurately.

As an example a character in DB goes from rest to full speed in a direction in around 150ms, meaning a ‘full’ change of direction takes about 300ms. Human reaction time is about 150ms so ‘dancing’ is really pushing your reactions to track a target to the limit.

When I scrub videos what I tend to see happening is the player compensates for the last change the target made at just about the time the target starts to change direction again, having the effect of your crosshair constantly crossing the target. If the next round isn’t fired at the exact point your dancing target cross the crosshair then you’re going to miss.

The two obvious solutions to this are bigger hit boxes (we’ve already changed this a few times) or slightly slower accelerations to max speed, although in the past when the latter was much higher players didn’t like how responsive the game felt.

Other options would be higher rates of fire on the weapons, but I think things would start to feel really odd at that point as less mobile enemies would melt in a fraction of a second :stroggbanana:[/QUOTE]

Looks at the video at 0:095 seconds that Jerk or Glitch throws his entire aim off. Both players RLRL and possible even crouch (one does)… Instead of larger hit boxes or faster ROF why not increase spread recovery on guns. So an RLRL battle doesnt max spread until 60% of the clip is used or something…

If the movement is going to continue to be so fast and hurky jerky like we see at 0:095 seconds in this video something needs to be done. Better animation maybe… Take this and times it by 100 and thats what shotgunners look like all the time. They fly around the map… Never smooth…

(Sun_Sheng) #16

Thanks for the reply Anti :slight_smile:

My aim sucking I can live with in the context of the video, as I say, it was one random firefight I pulled out and such things happen. What i’m still struggling a bit with though, is the fact that I am being hit so consistently (enough to kill me quite quickly) when what i’m seeing is him aiming well wide. Presumably he is seeing me in a different way and on his screen he’s aiming right at me, but if i’m seeing him missing left, that affects my judgement i:e i’m not going to go left and walk into a hail of fire so I stand still or dodge right while getting a face full of lead.

All that happens in an instant and i’m not sure what is conscious or sub-conscious in the decision making, but it still seems to suggest firefights have the potential to be either a bit lotto, or a victim of the kind of rewind time scenarios that COD suffers from whereby the better your connection is, the more likely you are to die because they game is deciding that even though you have reacted first, if the other guy had a better connection then he would have been further along the path and would have seen you first. That would also explain the feeling I sometimes get of having died before I can even turn and shoot

(PixelTwitch) #17

The last shot did not count because you was already dead to the server when the last bullet hit.

The rest was simply due to you missing.
The hit reg is client side if you hit them on your screen (and your not dead to the server) you get the hit. Looking at the crosshair its obvious to me at least that you missed. That weapon fires quite high vertically so you need to pull it down and keep it lined up to be able to get the decent hits. I know the weapons do feel very inconsistent and that is a separate issue. When it comes to hits regging though… It was working fine.

(fzl) #18

hmmm…

i see maximum of 3 hits in this vid…sry sunsheng but this is not a hit reg problem…

greetz fzl aka PilGr!m

(Anti) #19

[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;506633]Thanks for the reply Anti :slight_smile:

My aim sucking I can live with in the context of the video, as I say, it was one random firefight I pulled out and such things happen. What i’m still struggling a bit with though, is the fact that I am being hit so consistently (enough to kill me quite quickly) when what i’m seeing is him aiming well wide. Presumably he is seeing me in a different way and on his screen he’s aiming right at me, but if i’m seeing him missing left, that affects my judgement i:e i’m not going to go left and walk into a hail of fire so I stand still or dodge right while getting a face full of lead.

All that happens in an instant and i’m not sure what is conscious or sub-conscious in the decision making, but it still seems to suggest firefights have the potential to be either a bit lotto, or a victim of the kind of rewind time scenarios that COD suffers from whereby the better your connection is, the more likely you are to die because they game is deciding that even though you have reacted first, if the other guy had a better connection then he would have been further along the path and would have seen you first. That would also explain the feeling I sometimes get of having died before I can even turn and shoot[/QUOTE]

We can take a look at blend times and poses at some point, they could be slowing things down a little too much. I agree at the start he looked like no threat to you. At later points his aim didn’t seem that off to me.

(Sun_Sheng) #20

[QUOTE=fzl;506635]hmmm…

i see maximum of 3 hits in this vid…sry sunsheng but this is not a hit reg problem…

greetz fzl aka PilGr!m[/QUOTE]
That was part of my feeling, I only got one hit when I thought there should have been at least a couple more. That said, I accept Anti’s explanation although it still concerns me that what i’m seeing is so far removed from the reality of what is happening and we’re heading into the COD “I just ducked behind a wall!! How did I die!!!” …“well you weren’t actually behind the wall even though you thought you were” rewind-time syndrome…