Hey SD: Console matchmaking fix proposal


(SinDonor) #1

Yo SD, I had some time to kill today, so I’d like to give my take on the issues with matchmaking in Brink and how to fix them.

In Pub Standard, the biggest issue is that an 8vs8 game can quickly regress into an 8vs0 game in a matter of 1 to 2 matches. This is even more likely to happen if one side is comprised of a party of 4 to 8 higher-skilled Brink players. A team of good, communicating players will ALWAYS trump a team of 8 randoms in Brink. If those opponents leave because of whatever reasons, now we’ve got 8 humans vs 0-3 humans and 8-5 bots. Then, when a person or two joins the 8vs0-3 match, they take one look at the team imbalance and then GTFO. This bad issue is compounded since the bot AI in Pub Standard is a joke for almost anyone except total newbies.

This matchmaking issue is killing this game for many of its experienced players. Thankfully, I have a pretty large group of Brink friends on my XBL playlist, so we have started to run some private matches vs each other. But if we’ve only got 2-7 friends online playing Brink, we either have to try our luck against the randoms in Pub Standard and hope to find some opponents that stick around or we play Campaign vs HARD AI bots.

I know you’re at the semi-mercy of Beelzebub, err, I mean Bethesda and if they aren’t gonna fund you, you’re not gonna do any additional work. That’s totally fair and understandable. (On a side note, I appreciate the gun balancing issues that you’re currently working on.) But, if there’s any money left in your “Post-Release Bug Fixes” account, I’d hope that you could use some of it to fix the matchmaking, as it is truly broken for consoles. I’ve played this game for around 100 hours now and most of the other bugs I’ve run into are minor/trivial. I would rather the matchmaking be fixed than all of the other outstanding minor bugs together.

Here’s what I’d do with the current game, if I had limited, but sufficient funds:

For Public Standard, offer two initial choices: Create Match or Join Match.

Create Match allows a person to start an empty public server and places them in the warm-up screen. The game cannot start until a specific amount of people join each side (I’d say 5 or 6 minimum) and at least half of the players on each team Ready Up. Perhaps have a Automatic Start Time of 20 seconds if both teams are at 7-8 players. Why make everyone wait to Ready-Up if the match is already full?

This Create Match option would give ample time to invite friends to the match since it’s starting empty. Since this option places everyone into the Warm-Up screen lobby, players don’t have to worry about starting the game vs low-AI bots and hope other people join later. Everyone can choose to start the match once the Start-Up Screen/lobby fills up with players.

For any players (and their friends) who don’t want to wait to fill up a Start-Up lobby and they don’t care about playing vs humans, then those types of players can start a Private match or go to Campaign mode co-op and play against bots. :rolleyes:

Once a match has started, any open spots will be populated by new-and-improved variable-AI bots. The bot AI varies depending on the XP differential between the two teams. The bots can start out on Medium AI, but can either scaled up to HARD or down to EASY depending on how their team is doing (More about these bots below). If any players leave, they get replaced by another bot. So, while a match might end up as 8vs0 if the losing team all rage quits before the match is over, the remaining players will finish the match vs some HARD AI bots and then go back to the next match’s Warm-Up screen/lobby.

Join Match allows a single person to find an available, open match. They may get put into a warm-up screen/lobby or they may get put directly into a running match. Either way, this allows a person to join a running match without having to wait for people to populate their Start-up lobby. For the matchmaking logic, I’d first search for matches that are waiting in the lobby that are 50% full or greater, then running matches that are 50% full or greater, then games waiting in lobby less than 50% full, then running games less than 50% full, then create their own match.

Other items I’d add to improve multiplayer matchmaking:

AFK’ers get booted after 3 minutes of no response. Nobody likes to see a spot being taken up by some player just chilling out at the spawn the entire match. I’d rather have a MEDIUM AI bot running around soaking up bullets than an AFK’er at my spawn.

“Any Rank” choice when looking for skill-levels in servers. If I am a Level 3 (Rank 1) character and I start an “Any Rank” match, I’m allowing it to be played by any players of any rank. IMO, this should be the default setting.

“Variable, Scalable Bot AI” needs to be implemented, as a basic fix. The HARD AI bots, while still not much of a challenge for 4-8 experienced Brink players, can still be 100x more fun than the lame Pub Standard default bot AI. Have a script running which constantly monitors the difference in XP gains between the two teams. If one team is earning much more XP/min than another team, than the losing team’s bots get ramped up accordingly. Ramp up whatever bots skills are necessary to either kill the opposing humans or attack/defend the objective.

Side Note: The bots’ priority list needs some refinement. Experienced players/teams know the best way to disrupt the bots from attacking/defending their objective is to go capture ComPosts or side Objectives. While those items are valuable to any team, the fact that the bots send 2 or more teammates to go capture ComPosts or do the side Obj’s makes completing the main Obj for the human team much easier. The remaining bot force is missing those teammates who are too busy try to cap ComPosts and side Obj’s to be very effective. Early in a match, I’d say “Go for whatever you want, bots”, but later on, with only a few minutes or Obj %'s left, the bots should all be full force on the main Obj and ignore the side stuff.

Use the best host available. If Sally from Saskatoon, Boris from Bulgaria, or Henry from Hoboken created a match (where they are the host by default), and their connection is lower than a majority of the players who have joined the match, then pause the game and switch hosts. Most of us will be happy to wait the 30 seconds for the host migration rather than keep playing in a laggy match all game. Sucks for Sally, Boris, and Henry since they lose their “Host Advantage”, but no need to punish all of the other players due to a poor host net connection.

That’s all I got for now. I may edit some stuff for grammar, readability, etc later.

OK, back to working on the videogames my company makes…


(VG_JUNKY) #2

Like every idea here :slight_smile:
would also lk a match browser, but if thats too complicated or expensive ( money & time wise ) then these changes would be a good enough to help the console plyrs get into good games


(DarkangelUK) #3

I like the way Borderlands has a semi-server browser where it will list active open game sessions and how many people are on there. Even something as simple as that would help the situation. Honestly I don’t see much happening, apparently it’s a struggle to get something as simple as weapon tweaks in place, never mind a matchmaking overhaul.


(SinDonor) #4

[QUOTE=VG_JUNKY;374775]Like every idea here :slight_smile:
would also lk a match browser, but if thats too complicated or expensive ( money & time wise ) then these changes would be a good enough to help the console plyrs get into good games[/QUOTE]

Yeah, thanks. I was trying to offer ideas that could be completed with their current screens and not too much needed to be added GUI wise. They’d need to obviously revise some things on the back end, but yeah…


(SinDonor) #5

They are actively working on the weapon tweaks though. I applaud their patience. Nothing worse than rushing out a patch that might imbalance the game even more than it already is (i.e. All of the Light, Carb-9, Grenade-Shooting Soldiers everywhere!)


(DarkangelUK) #6

That’s on the premise that the tweaks will differ between each platform. I could be totally wrong here, but have the consoles received the weapon tweaks that the PC already has, and they’re working on a new revision?


(SinDonor) #7

Yeah, we console folks got the latest weapon tweaks way after the PC crowd I think. We got it when the DLC dropped. Now, they’re working on new weapon tweaks for everyone, hence the entire section dedicated to “Weapon Balancing Feedback”. One of the SD folks said that it’s gonna take a while to gather all of our comments/complaints, then change the weapons and test them internally before they release the new weapons patch.


(DarkangelUK) #8

Ah right cool, I haven’t kept up on the current situation with patches and tweaks etc.


(SinDonor) #9

I am REALLY looking forward to whatever tweaks they come up with. I am getting sick of the Light-Carb9 combo. I have been working on my Med Jack character and he mains the Mossington. I used to 2nd the Kross/Galactic w/drum, but since I got the new pre-order DLC, I ran with the Fallout Carb-9 last night as my 2nd. Damn, it’s such a better gun than everything else out there.

It’s all moot though unless they can fix the matchmaking somehow. These 8vs1 Pub Standard matches suck.


(DarkangelUK) #10

Tbh I went with the Carb-9/drum combo solely based on comments on these forums. For a time I went with the Kross, but it just didn’t feel right. Due to the spread, i’ve been keeping with high magazine and tight spread thinking, but regardless of that mantra the Carb-9 wins out every time… there doesn’t seem to be an equal or opposite to it which is a shame really. With regards to the light though… look back a couple years, I always said I’d go light cos I’m a mover :tongue:


(wolfnemesis75) #11

Good ideas Sin! :slight_smile:


(tangoliber) #12

If they have no money to implement a match browser, then they could just add a “Join Any + Any Region” option.


(SinDonor) #13

Thanks Wolf. I know it’s just a pipe dream, but maybe they like this idea and it’s something they can fix.


(SinDonor) #14

That could help, but still, 8vs0 servers would most likely have a person or two join for a minute then drop out. Happens to us all the time.


(Sleepy) #15

Wanted to reply in that byebye thread, but I didn’t want to bump that sad thing to top.

Great ideas! One small thing though. I really don’t think the variable AI thing is needed, just use Hard AI bots, period. Because anyone with a little experience in FPS with a controller can kill Brink normal AI bots with ease. I think it takes them bots 2-3 seconds to respond and another 1-2 seconds to actually hit you.

With these normal bots, who can blame people to quit early instead of waiting for people to join up while getting crushed by 8 human players.

My guess is most people quit the imbalance games because they see the other team rush thru the objectives like it’s an empty map. Imagine 8 people play coop campaign on easy, who can blame them.

It doesn’t really take much skill or teamwork to spawn-trap normal bots. In certain maps, it’s hard to get out of a spawn-trap once you’re in it, like container city.

Just put AI bots on hard from the start and make it a challenge for both side. So people who join the game late will see both sides are fighting to win the game instead of one side breezing thru like it’s an empty map.

TBH, I’m kinda hesitant to join a big Brink party (planning to do pub) with 4 players already in it.

Why?

Yes, it’s fun to play with someone you know or players from this forum (they’re cool!). Yes, it’s fun to win. Yes, It’s fun to finish a game with someone you know and talk about it afterwards.

Then why?

Because it’s not fun to beat/crush a team barely with any human players in it. It just doesn’t feel right.

Right now, the best Brink experience for me is always with a party of 2-4. Because we won’t be overpowered and we can always switch sides to balance the game.

Well, said a bunch of unrelated rant and such… =_=

Back to topic, just use hard bot!!!


(wolfnemesis75) #16

I think we can piggyback our ideas. :slight_smile:


(SinDonor) #17

To Sleepy: I wish they could include a INSANE AI bot level because with a team of 8 we still kick HARD AI bot ass.

I just said make it variable because the game should always be checking to see how the teams are stacked and what the XP per min rate is. If one team is crushing the other, ramp up the BOT difficulty ASAP. This way, incase the game is filled with a bunch of newbs, they’re not gonna get destroyed by a bunch of terminator T-1000s.

Remember the days when everyone was bitching about the bots being too hard? Bunch of whiners.


(SinDonor) #18

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;374880]Maybe not. Check out my thread as well: [thread=30758]Brink Barriers To Entry[/thread]

I think we can piggyback our ideas. :)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, good ideas. At this point, I think all we’re gonna get is a pat on the back. Even if SD wants to improve the game after this current round of weapon balancing, if Bethesda’s not gonna fund any more dev work, then SD is stuck.


(wolfnemesis75) #19

[QUOTE=SinDonor;374904]To Sleepy: I wish they could include a INSANE AI bot level because with a team of 8 we still kick HARD AI bot ass.

I just said make it variable because the game should always be checking to see how the teams are stacked and what the XP per min rate is. If one team is crushing the other, ramp up the BOT difficulty ASAP. This way, incase the game is filled with a bunch of newbs, they’re not gonna get destroyed by a bunch of terminator T-1000s.

Remember the days when everyone was bitching about the bots being too hard? Bunch of whiners.[/QUOTE]Bots were harder before the latest patch. They would mount a push/assault at the end of matches. I never complained about the bots because I knew why they worked like that. :slight_smile:


(SinDonor) #20

Yeah, we would actually look forward to the push. I loved that part about defending vs the bots and keeping my eye on the timer. Once it reached 2:00, you knew a schittstorm was coming and the anticipation was great.