HEAVIES are useless

(Calelith) #21

Heavies in close quarters with a minigun are crazy powerful, they will shred people before they can react to move.

Maybe try playing with an assault play style, or defend and camp corridors so enemies can’t escape once you start shooting.

(H3LLS1) #22

[QUOTE=Ghostdog;317195]Here’s one person having fun playing a heavy at least:

heavy operative minigun backstab[/QUOTE]

lmao. awesome.

(tokamak) #23

[QUOTE=Calelith;317487]Heavies in close quarters with a minigun are crazy powerful, they will shred people before they can react to move.
[/QUOTE]

Until they get shot in the face with an SMG.

(Kurnuttaja) #24

The thing I dont understand is that why the heavy bodytype is so incredibly weak. And people just guide you to be sneaky and surprise… Why is the heavy some kind of a (tf2) spy style sneaky assassin in this game?

(tokamak) #25

Yeah indeed, it’s also dubious why people wouldn’t see this body type being buffed, there’s no way heavies will suddenly turn into murderous killing machines when their weapons become more powerful. Their low mobility is already an innate limit on their power.

(Spez) #26

Hmmm don’t know. Last night me and two other players on my team took the heavy body type and we totally steamrolled the enemy team on three maps.

The Heavy Machinegun (NOT the minigun) has good range, good damage, high fire rate and a LOT of ammunition. Combine that with Kevlar, Molotov, Grenades, unlimited ammo and you have a char that gets really frightening if there are two or more of them fighting together.

Taking the heavy MG as primary and the Shotgun as secondary weapon was a lot of fun.

(FrankieGodskin) #27

The Hammer shotgun is great, so long as you compensate for the recoil on the second shot. I use that as my secondary with a Gerund as my primary and I’ve gotten decent results. The slight health boost of being a heavy makes up for the lack of mobility.

(Jak Swift) #28

was playing a game last night, some heavy was wrecccccking it up, he got me half raging, your point is invalid, sorry :frowning: but i would like to see a lower recoil and knockdown resistence, the light can wall hop etc, also the medium could switch guns quicker being the “all rounder” maybe im getting carried away, peace.

he was using the chaingun, which i have used and think it great, i dont know why people bash it, just spin that baby up befor u hit a cornor, and for the recoil, it has like no recoil when your actually aim, i bet hafl of you run around as heavys just holding your righ trigger like your some light with a smg.

(chamber666) #29

all you crybabys screaming for the waaaaaaahmbulance over map design, body type attributes, weapon performance…pretty much anything other than lag or lobby systems, need to go play a different game. SERIOUSLY. the solutions to your problems and gripes are NOT to have the devs go in and gut the game but to LEARN and ADAPT to this playstyle and learn to work with your team instead of being ADHD rambo.

for every advantage a class or body type or weapon has it has a deficiency. a deficiency that is MEANT to be compensated for by another player, he helps you and you in turn make up for his deficiencies. its a puzzle and everything interlocks. your teams main objective is to function as seamlessly as possible. your opponents objective is to find the chinks in that armor and tear that cohesion apart. your problems with the game AREN’T with the game, its with yourself and your teammates.

discuss and argue strategy, work with what you’ve got and overcome. dont whine to the devs to fix your problems by putting every hurdle you face on easymode

(KAS--Will) #30

The biggest issue I had with a heavy and a mini gun or a gun that needs to be spooled, is sometimes I don’t spool it, just immediately fire and the gun will spool, with no end, then I have to spool it all over again behind cover. I didn’t have an issue with it, I owned a lot of players with the mini gun at a medium to short range. If you want to use it, just get in the habit of spooling it before leaving cover, so when you go out, your at the ready.

Heavy Medics are really useful, as a light using the CARB-9 all the time, I can’t do much if a heavy is shooting me, he has buffed HP, and him working with an engineer doesn’t help at all… with a Kevlar buff…

(jazevec) #31

I don’t think the spin-up time of minigun is the worst thing. It’s the damage. Venom in RTCW and particularly Hyperblaster in ET:QW were tricky to use, but made up for that with raw power. Sometimes you could cut several unlucky people with one burst.

(raib) #32

[QUOTE=Ghostdog;317195]Here’s one person having fun playing a heavy at least:

heavy operative minigun backstab[/QUOTE]

I do something similar as a medium with a shotgun every now and then for laughs.

But yeah, heavies are useless.

(tokamak) #33

That’s a premise for good gameplay, the notion that the balance is sufficient in this game is the thing we’re contesting. Most heavy players are willing to take the weaknesses for granted nobody is complaining about that but the strengths fall short.

If a heavy starts firing on you, you should be in trouble and not like it is right now, being able to turn around and hit him in the face and walk away.

(Baumbo) #34

So according to the numerical stats, the gotlung fires three bullets at a time which each deal 8 damage, so 24 damage if all bullets hit. With a fire rate of 909rpm.

The Carb-9 has the same fire rate and deal 23 damage per bullet.

That doesn’t seem fair to me. However i don’t know if Kirson counted the rpm of the minigun with the three bullets or not.

(blackjack3578) #35

i use the mini gun alot, it is my favorite weapon

(tokamak) #36

It certainly doesn’t feel like the minigun does three times the damage of a SMG.

(GeneralGideonx) #37

I have to agree with this post. I have played heavy’s with two separate characters up to level 20. I’m not saying you can’t do well with a heavy, I’ve done very well with them as would be the case for any good player; however, the problem is I can do better if I don’t play a heavy, in every roll and position on the team a Med/Light body can do the job better than a heavy, just a simple fact, and the heavy weapons are out performed by SMGs and ARs.

If you break down the pros and cons to play a heavy its easy to see the unblance.

Pros:

[ol]
[li]60 extra health over a light (.2 sec under fire or 1-4 extra bullets max). Before you say the numbers are incorrect please take the time to view the wiki or strategy guild for weapon damage and fire rates (most guns can at least shoot 10 rounds a second and the worst damage per bullet is 18).
[/li][li]Heavy weapons have the largest ammo count (with the right SMG they really don’t have much more and when considering the accuracy issues Heavy weapons have it takes 3 times as many rounds to kill a person as it does with an accurate weapons, so really your killing power is no better Heavy’s just use more bullets to do the same job).
[/li][/ol]
Cons:

[ol]
[li]Largest Hit Box of all bodys (this quickly counteracts the very little extra HP you have)
[/li][li]Slowest Movement (not only does this effect the time it takes to get places it makes you a huge slow target and very hard to dodge bullets, head shot by SMG anyone…)
[/li][li]No, wall hop or Mantle (you can’t follow your team mates through nice paths you have to lumber around through the more dangerous roots and this also compound how long it takes to get from point A to B)
[/li][li]Heavy weapons have the longest reload times
[/li][li]Heavy weapons have the longest equip times
[/li][li]Heavy weapons effective kill range is only short (Expection Maximus)
[/li][li]Heavy weapons have horrible recoil
[/li][li]Heavy weapons have horrible accuracy (in the case of the Gotlung the worset accuracy in the game)
[/li][li]If using the Gotlung you have an additional wait time to fire as it spins up, and if you keep it spinning your movement speed goes down to virtually nothing.
[/li][/ol]

I’ve read people saying that Heavy weapons are great for controlling an area if you know what you are doing that is really not true. You need high damage and decent range for area denial, the Heavy guns are too inaccurate to lock areas down because they cant’ kill worth crap at med to long range, ARs and SMG once again are better at this.

If you want to take the path by using the Maxiumus instead it does have decent range and accuracy however, it shoots weak little bullets its DPS is only 300 and the CARB-9 with slightly less ammo does 345DPS and it has better stability by far. Then you have the Euston that does 400DPS and is better on everything but ammo. So why would I use any Heavy weapon when between SMGs and ARs I can strait up get better guns?

Don’t get me wrong I love the Heavy (or at least the idea of it). I have had the most fun with the Gotlung it really only works on easy bots and is not effective in MP but darn it I had fun, I just wish I could use it and be really effective, and the only place it does work are very short tight hallways for crowed killing; however an SMG can still pop around the corner and kill you first.

You can tell in games when there is heavy unbalance if there is 1 gun or body type everyone uses… (CARB-9 and light) MP is full of those and for good reason they work good for everything and they do it well.

I just hope SD reads these things and makes some tweaks (More HP or Damage, or Accuracy) so I can go back to my favorite body type and still feel as useful with that as a Med/Light bodies.

(tokamak) #38

This is how I feel, but fatter:

(Baumbo) #39

It definitely doesn’t have three times the dps. I feel like the best solution would be to reduce spread and increase fire rate of the minigun. I feel like the low damage and the random spread allow people to get away or take cover. I just feel like something is wrong when I fire the minigun in controlled bursts. It doesn’t feel very minigun. :frowning:

Might as well use a carb-9.

(GeneralGideonx) #40

[QUOTE=Baumbo;318056]It definitely doesn’t have three times the dps. I feel like the best solution would be to reduce spread and increase fire rate of the minigun. I feel like the low damage and the random spread allow people to get away or take cover. I just feel like something is wrong when I fire the minigun in controlled bursts. It doesn’t feel very minigun. :frowning:

Might as well use a carb-9.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way, having to burst fire a mini gun is wrong… the purpose of a mini gun is to be able to keep the gas down and let the bullets fly. And if you burst fire that thing your DPS gets worse because each bullets damage is not that high. I would be willing to go back to my Heavy if they simply tighten the mini guns accuracy circle and made it reset as soon as you stopped firing instead of having to wait … forever for the circle to go back to a reasonable size.