Have you ever seen the vaccine defended?

(FireWorks) #1

This goes for Objective type of games! Stopwatch and bothunting are different thing;)

While I got quite a lot of hours (6 lv20) on brink I yet havent seen one single team successfully defending the last objective on Container City. Whenever a team managed to get to this objective, they also achieved it. Even with a strong team and many close fights over minutes not a single time I didnt see the chopper flying away with the vaccine in the end.

The same goes for the last obs on refuel. They build it everytime if they get there.

What are your experiences?

(Ashog) #2

Nope, haven’t seen. It is impossible to return vaccine after it’s taken out of the yard.
The return time is ridiculously long and makes no sense at all.

(Shadowcat) #3

[QUOTE=FireWorks;332875]While I got quite a lot of hours (6 lv20) on brink I yet havent seen one single team successfully defending the last objective on Container City. Whenever a team managed to get to this objective, they also achieved it. Even with a strong team and many close fights over minutes not a single time I didnt see the chopper flying away with the vaccine in the end.

The same goes for the last obs on refuel. They build it everytime if they get there.

What are your experiences?[/QUOTE]

If security on container city are good enough to get to the crane, then chances are, the rest of the map is going to be a breeze for them. Its not so much that the second objective is easy for security so much as the fact that security needs to be better in the first place to even get there.

@Brutt, there is no “return time” afaik, you have to walk up to it and hold your interact key to get it to return

(FireWorks) #4

Ok, the vote in on too now:)

(wolfnemesis75) #5

[QUOTE=FireWorks;332875]While I got quite a lot of hours (6 lv20) on brink I yet havent seen one single team successfully defending the last objective on Container City. Whenever a team managed to get to this objective, they also achieved it. Even with a strong team and many close fights over minutes not a single time I didnt see the chopper flying away with the vaccine in the end.

The same goes for the last obs on refuel. They build it everytime if they get there.

What are your experiences?[/QUOTE]

I got beat by a Resistance squad after we got the vaccine door blown. We got pinned down around the bot and they setup turrets in the building where the vaccine is and tons of mines. They stayed on the above crates and were shooting down. I also got beat on Refuel. We could not get the controls fixed. It was 8v8. No bots. If you run into 8 man teams you can get stoned on any part of a map. I was also on a team that stopped the controls from being fixed. I am rarely Resistance on Container City, and 9/10 we hold them around the gate, or before they can fix the crane.

(Shadowcat) #6

numbers don’t really work for a poll like this, since that just depends on how much you play. If you play the map a thousand times, even something rare will happen dozens of times.

Should be more along the lines of “impossible, difficult but not impossible, not that difficult”
for which i would vote “difficult but not impossible”

you also have left no room for anyone to disagree with you in your poll/

(Kalbuth) #7

I think I’ve seen refuel fully done once. Meaning I don’t know much of the objectives, but if the last one is the building one, then yes, defending it is not that hard. Mainly because you can get around incoming attackers and backrape them, usually.

Vaccine on Container is another story, but you have to admit offense had it pretty tough just to get to this stage, already :slight_smile:

(Shadowcat) #8

Personally, I’ve defended the final objective on refuel for 8-10 minutes more than a three times in the past, which goes outside of the bounds of your poll. Its not impossible to defend, its just another case where security had to be doing well to get there in the first place.

(FireWorks) #9

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;332886]numbers don’t really work for a poll like this, since that just depends on how much you play. If you play the map a thousand times, even something rare will happen dozens of times.

Should be more along the lines of “impossible, difficult but not impossible, not that difficult”
for which i would vote “difficult but not impossible”

you also have left no room for anyone to disagree with you in your poll/[/QUOTE]

This a purely empirical voting. I ask for experiences in hard numbers, not any subjective “if this and that maybe blabla”. The question is written so you cant disagree. I dont ask for an opinion :wink:

(FireWorks) #10

The last options are “3+ times” which means “3 or more time”. Please stop trollin

(Shadowcat) #11

Let me put it another way, no matter what people vote for in this poll, the top answer would still seem to support your claim that “its hard to win on this objective” thus making the poll entirely meaningless, because empirical data is useless without a proper scale. I have played the game enough that Ive seen just about anything happen at least 3 times.

And when it comes down to it, this is my issue with it, because i dont agree with what you claim, it does happen. Maybe only once every 10 games, but more than half of the games it will never even get that far.

(iFork) #12

Managed to get the person kill and return the person holding the vaccine just right on the last second :D, it’s possible. You just need to keep shutting the market door and on refuel, I’ve never defended the last objective ever, the offensive team will always get stuck hacking or trying to retrieve the whatever you call it.

(Kurushi) #13

Container city nearly always, but people still don’t have a clue what to do at this part of the map on defence.

Refuel, we’ll be lucky to get that far tbh

(FireWorks) #14

Ah I just noticed that this is different for stopwatch servers :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #15

If you get past the gate you have won.

(Coolaguy) #16

If it’s you, a couple of noobs, and a team of bots on Security versus a full team of humans on Resistance, then they can guaranteed accomplish a full-hold.

Resistance just needs to camp the sh^it out of the vaccine room with mines and have turrets and player overwatch positions elsewhere. In such instances, Security can’t actually grab the vaccine, itself.

I played a game where I accomplished the first 3 Security objectives in record time, leaving 18 minutes on the clock to push the final bot and return the vaccine. We won the mission with less than 2 minutes to go and we only accomplished this because I killed 3 partial waves of enemy respawns single-handedly from the overwatch position in their own spawn as Heavy Soldier. Meanwhile, the moronic bots battled over secondary objectives and threw themselves into the enemy meat-grinder. My own human allies were pretty much ineffective. Finally, one bot moronically and intermittently walked its way back to the drop point while I held the enemy at bay.

This was easily one of my most frustrating experiences with Brink.

Teams can accomplish a full hold on Container City if they appropriately camp the room itself, the Overwatch sniper position on the bridge, and the two Overwatch positions above the vaccine. Repairing the Barricade and Destroying the Side Stairs are optional given that the Resistance can’t afford to lose their strangle-hold on the vaccine room itself. However, Repairing the Barricade (and having one or two Lights available to guard it) can make coordinating your defense that much easier as Resistance, because it allows you to better concentrate your fire on incoming attackers.

(Nefarious) #17

A team of heavies defending on Container City is sick. I have been on both ends of that one. And the Resistence holds their own for idk 20mins or whatever the long redonk time is.

The Security gets spawned raped at the crossing bridge.

(Coolaguy) #18

[QUOTE=FireWorks;332895]The last options are “3+ times” which means “3 or more time”. Please stop trollin[/QUOTE]Having worked extensively and professionally with gathering input from people using surveys, I can assure you that he is not trolling.

You may only want empirical numbers-based responses, but participants simply neglect to complete surveys if they feel that they are inadequately designed and don’t give them the proper outlets to field their responses. This is called Response Rate, and you certainly didn’t get a vote from me.

For one thing, Survey scales need to be balanced, or their Response Rate plummets.

Furthermore, you aren’t really interested in the Accumulated number of Wins or Losses that players have seen, because this varies based upon extent of play experience (i.e. Having personally accumulated hundreds of games, so what if I’ve seen them Lose 3+ times…). What you are interested in, is the Frequency or Proportion of Wins and Losses that players have witnessed.

The fact is that rates people will report are not objective, and you will have a difficult time quantifying them, because people don’t literally know what percentage of the time they will Win or Lose on Container City.

They can tell you the gist, however.

A common Likert scale for this purpose is:

  • Always
  • Often
  • Sometimes
  • Seldom
  • Never

If you want to further anchor those values, you can try to do so with percentages or “out of ten” anchors.

i.e.

  • Always (100% of the time)
  • Often (~75% of the time)
  • Sometimes (50% of the time)
  • Seldom (~25% of the time)
  • Never (0% of the time)

and

  • Always (10/10 times)
  • Often (7-8/10 times)
  • Sometimes (5/10 times)
  • Seldom (2-3/10 times)
  • Never (0/10 times)

Finally, after all is said and done, and you’ve put together your survey, you can never assume that it is functioning as you’ve intended. You need to look at the data, and examine whether it is skewed or not. The fact is that people’s interpretations of language vary, and people are also susceptible to what psychologists refer to as Biases.

Assuming that you are going for something worth reporting, you need to examine how it compares to valid reference results (i.e. psychology surveys) or objective results (i.e. the actual statistical frequency of Resistance full-holds on the last objective of Container City).

Even if a survey isn’t about being formally reported, you need to be prudent about drawing conclusions based upon trends that you observe in your survey, given the limitations of your method and sample size, etc.

At the end of the day, a survey is only viable if it is used as a tool for action.

Too often, surveys are poorly designed and are little more than GIGO-machines (Garbage In; Garbage Out) because they clearly have an agenda they are either trying to push (or confronting a reality that the reviewers and designers are too scared to face). Guess which category your poll falls into…

EDIT:
For what it’s worth, I’d say that Resistance seldom accomplishes a full-hold on the final objective of Container City.

(Rally) #19

Wait, first people bitched that attacking is too hard, now people are bitching that defending is too hard?

So which it is?

(Shadowcat) #20

[QUOTE=Rally;333147]Wait, first people bitched that attacking is too hard, now people are bitching that defending is too hard?

So which it is?[/QUOTE]

Attacking is so hard that if a team is good enough (and/or the opponents are bad enough)to get to the last objective, chances are that the defenders will get steamrolled there too.