Guardian nerf or buff

(Dysfnal) #81

Her new primary needs a buff, it just can’t compete with the M4 and Timik.

I hate her new secondary. But that’s just preference. I also hate the M9, and it’s just a more extreme version of what makes the M9 what it is.

I think her batons are fine? Tbh all of the swings are super short range now (except the Beckhill and Stilnotto, those are reasonable). As soon as the slash ranges are fixed we can get a better idea of how good the melee weapons are.

Her abilities as a whole need to be stronger, specifically her revive. After her abilities are on par with others I would reduce her hp by 10, but that’s just me.

(Sorotia) #82

@Dys[fn]al said:
Her new primary needs a buff, it just can’t compete with the M4 and Timik.

I hate her new secondary. But that’s just preference. I also hate the M9, and it’s just a more extreme version of what makes the M9 what it is.

I think her batons are fine? Tbh all of the swings are super short range now (except the Beckhill and Stilnotto, those are reasonable). As soon as the slash ranges are fixed we can get a better idea of how good the melee weapons are.

Her abilities as a whole need to be stronger, specifically her revive. After her abilities are on par with others I would reduce her hp by 10, but that’s just me.

I like the gun, but I think it could use a slightly higher mag. If it’s supposed to be like the Hochfir of AR’s then I think it could use at least 5 rounds more a mag.

The Hoch has 10 or more rounds than the other SMGs so I don’t see why the 2k couldn’t add a few more rounds.

(watsyurdeal) #83

I don’t know why the drone has a duration, feels like it’s not necessary with how easy it is to take down.

(Dysfnal) #84

@whatsurdeal I think it would be best of it were similar to the HB sensor and snitch, where it goes down just as the cooldown ends

(GatoCommodore) #85

@watsyurdeal said:
I don’t know why the drone has a duration, feels like it’s not necessary with how easy it is to take down.

because fire support mercs has long cooldown.

(MikeGreene1990) #86

In regards to guardian. She is great on frontline with Assault weapons. However, the drone bot is essentially useless. Her lack of healing makes her useless as a medic. Bionic pulse is an awesome concept, but its not in a good place. Here’s what i would do.

For her Bionic Pulse.

  1. Remove cool down and reduce range slightly.
  2. allow it to heal mercs at 66% health quick tap, 100% full charge.
  3. Add an offensive vampire ability in which BP does damage to enemy team. The damage delt is leeched back to your HP and teammates within 5 meters of you. Damage could be done based on charge level.

For her interceptor Drone.

  1. Remove self destruct duration, let it sit until the enemy is smart enough to shoot it up.
  2. increase cool down before dropping another unit.
  3. Allow it to protect from Kira’s satellite.

Reason for drone, is because 10 seconds of uptime is to short in stopwatch games where a full team of artys can alternate spaming EV.

But she needs to be able to heal. I think a vampire leech effect from BP is more unique than a walking aura station. at 1/4 healing rate.

(GatoCommodore) #87

@MikeGreene1990
let me put it this way

her drone can tank over over 200dmg

if rhino can get one shotted by arty strike then its double the amount of damage being tanked by the dome.

what makes her weak in medics, is good in keep the team alive holding routes, generator, C4 plant from air support and explosives.

tho i do support the idea giving the drone the ability to start natural hp regen if someone enters the dome

(MikeGreene1990) #88

@GatoCommodore said:
@MikeGreene1990
let me put it this way

her drone can tank over over 200dmg

if rhino can get one shotted by arty strike then its double the amount of damage being tanked by the dome.

what makes her weak in medics, is good in keep the team alive holding routes, generator, C4 plant from air support and explosives.

tho i do support the idea giving the drone the ability to start natural hp regen if someone enters the dome

Yes but the drone destroys itself even when placed behind an object for direct line of sight of the skies. The problem with the drone is that it can block nothing and still die in 10-20 seconds. Whatever the self destruct rate is.

Also her revive does not impress me one bit… if it had no cool down sure…

(MikeGreene1990) #89

@GatoCommodore Im not a fan of the drone providing healing. If thats the case than it shouldn’t self destruct at all or be on a timer. I would rather see a leeching vampire effect through her BP that heals you and teammates within radius of you. Its more unique.

No reason for her drone to be another aura station even if its diminished at a healing rate.

(Ptiloui) #90

@MikeGreene1990 said:
Reason for drone, is because 10 seconds of uptime is to short in stopwatch games where a full team of artys can alternate spaming EV.

Nothing prevent your team to have a full team of Guardian that alternate their drone…

People shouldn’t see the drone as a preventive ability, like Turtle’s shield, but a reactive one, like… well, no merc actually has such ability. This is the kind of gameplay where, when you see a Fragger, a Nader, or a Jav coming to you, instead of running away like before, you put your drone and stand your ground. And considering the duration gain a slight recharge for each projectile destroyed, i find the drone fine as it is.

@MikeGreene1990 said:
The problem with the drone is that it can block nothing and still die in 10-20 seconds. Whatever the self destruct rate is.

Just think that maybe it prevents enemy mercs using their ability. If an ennemy Nader or Arty see a deployed drone, she/he won’t use her/his ability. So your drone, even if it doesn’t directly block incoming projectile, it prevents in some way enemy mercs to spam your position.
In fact, the only merc that is losing a lot here is Skyhammer, because there is so much time between when the marker is thrown and when the plane come out, that it let plenty of time to Guardian to deploy her drone (but not enough for enemy to destroy it by shooting it)

As of her revive ability, the only buff she could get is a reduction to her CD. I agree that she’s not performing that much as a medic in pub games, but, like Sparks, she becomes way more powerful in FF ON servers, where you can kill and revive your teammate instead of healing them. Having a healing ability would be too powerful and there would be no point of playing Sawbonez or Phoenix anymore.

(MikeGreene1990) #91

@Ptiloui I dont think you understand how easy it is to take that drone out with gun fire. Also how can you stand your ground in some maps when you are forced to be out of cover on offense. Maps like chapel are aids at times on offense. The drone itself is plain bad. Maybe if it couldn’t be shot dead by gun fire, it would be fine the way it is…

Also alot of other things get through it. Kira, Proxy, phantom can disable it im sure. So having 1 merc not use an ability for 10 seconds does not help. You don’t understand how bad spamming can get in some maps it’s pretty retarded. If it’s in an indoor map like underground perhaps. But for its small duration and uptime, i dont even bother throwing it anymore.

I also don’t bother reviving anymore either unless i am behind cover. Cooldown is bad at times, what’s worse is if you miss, you still have to wait. Ive missed because i couldn’t revive through a mesh fence…

(MikeGreene1990) #92

@Ptiloui also nobody is going to have a team of guardians. An arty or nader is way more powerful offensively. Plus with that red aura displaying the protection range, all they need to do is wait a few seconds, kill the guardian and then spam EV.

(Ptiloui) #93

If it is that easy to take down, it’s only because you place it wrong. On Chapel offense, drop it behind the EV to protect your engie while he’s repairing : it can’t be shot at without the enemy getting out of cover. If you’re reactive enough with IDS warning, only the first half of Arty’s salvo pass through (not enough to destroy the drone), the rest is prevented by the drone. And hopefully, Kira can disable it. Otherwise, it would be too strong. As of Proxy or Phantom, if they get that close, you and your team should be able to take them down before they kill you all.

Don’t misunderstand me, im nearly only playing her since the release, and i often manage to get the same score as other meds in my team, even with her weird (and buggy, i agree) revive ability. If you give her a healing ability, she will be stupidly op. And what you’re suggesting, especially the drone part, will make it even more stupid. She doesn’t need that. She has the fire power of assault merc, with the speed of light ones, an ability that can revive teammates, and another that can prevent projectile spam : she’s actually strong enough.

@MikeGreene1990 said:
@Ptiloui also nobody is going to have a team of guardians. An arty or nader is way more powerful offensively. Plus with that red aura displaying the protection range, all they need to do is wait a few seconds, kill the guardian and then spam EV.

But that’s the point here : Dirty Bomb is a fast paced shooter, and preventing enemy to destroy objective or doing area denial with Nader or other projectile mercs during 10 seconds is long enough to push EV or regroup your team to build up a great defense.

(MikeGreene1990) #94

@Ptiloui I usually do throw it behind the EV. Speaking of though, there is a bug in which if you throw it and it hits the EV from behind it blows up.

Also you a wrong about it not getting shot. Between the house on the left, the MG nest and the railings on the right, you have enough attack angles to easily take out the drone. When you get close to the EV park site. There is even less cover to protect the bot.

Again Kira easily destroys it. Br-16 annihilates it. Proxy running around sprinting and dropping a mine next to it blows it up. ( a Flank). Phantom can just activate the cloak and shut it off. It needs more up time in general.

I am fine with the bot destroying itself after blocking so many projectiles, but for it to blowup after protecting nothing for 10 seconds or being waited out by the enemy team before deploying arty. Screw that, its useless…

If its to stay the way it is, you need to remove the Red overlay the enemy team can see. It’s to easy to counter in large games.

I would say for a 5/5 it may be in a good place emphasis on “maybe.” But for 7/7 8/8 nah not even close.

(OwynTyler) #95

Proxy running around sprinting and dropping a mine next to it blows it up.

wait, shouldn’t the drone shoot mine immediately and blow up the proxy that way?

(Chris Mullins) #96

Interesting thread with a lot of good feedback. We’re keeping a close eye on her performance and will make tweaks as necessary as we go forward. We’re very wary of making quick decisions and always want to wait to have data to backup changes we do.

Along with data, we also take into account player feedback and how we feel things are performing as developers.

(Melinder) #97

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re keeping a close eye on her performance and will make tweaks as necessary as we go forward.

Don’t forget to take into account that the changes you make will effect the merc you release next, as it will have to hard-counter Guardian somehow.

(Chris Mullins) #98

@Melinder said:
“it will have to hard-counter Guardian somehow.”

How so? You probably missed Exedore’s post about this kind of stuff.

“We don’t view DB as a game of hard counters, and we’re not looking to change that”

(Melinder) #99

@stayfreshshoe said:

@Melinder said:
“it will have to hard-counter Guardian somehow.”

How so? You probably missed Exedore’s post about this kind of stuff.

“We don’t view DB as a game of hard counters, and we’re not looking to change that”

I also heard c4te discussing Guardian’s ability and it’s importance in combating the recurring complaint of explosive spam, because god forbid the problem gets addressed directly :neutral:

(Chris Mullins) #100

“recurring complaint of the amount of explosive spam”. Hard counters are generally defined as something designed to counter something specifically. In the case of DB, a hard counter would be a Merc ability which counters another specific Merc. Guardian’s ability is a defensive option great for dealing with explosives, the same way that Turtle’s shield is great for dealing with bullets. As a Javelin, you still have the option to easily play around the Sky Shield. If you see it, shoot it. If it doesn’t have live of sight to where you want to use your rocket, use your rocket. If you want to blow up something behind the shield, guide your missile and blow it up.