Good luck with Nexon

(rookie1) #61

I fell the spirit of Alpha is coming Back ;)…Here not there

(fubar) #62

[QUOTE=Smooth;483536]Like I said, we’re not there yet when it comes to balance.

The last thing we want to do is impact how YOUR character performs because a couple of players happened to pick a similar one.

Imagine if they were new to the character and didn’t even use the Molotov (or used it badly) but your cooldown increased because they joined the server. I bet you’d be angry with them / the system.

Also how to Molotovs relate to Artillery Strike Salvos. How about Frag Grenades? What are the cooldown stacking rules there? The system would become far too complex and not obvious to players why things are changing, we want to keep these things simple.[/QUOTE]

And this is exactly why there needs to be drawn a line between competitive and pub play. :frowning:
I believe you’re forcing equality way too hard, this is not CS, they don’t have to deal with abilities and various characters, everyone has the exact same loadout, abilities and guns to their disposal. There’s absolutely no other SUCCESSFUL competitive FPS game I can think of that maintains the competitive and casual play to be the same. Even by heading into the moba directive, you don’t see the same character twice in a team. This is why there needs to be a “class” system in place again, it’d be an easy way out. Split characters up into certain categories (which, we have now anyway) and limit specific classes, as opposed to characters, to a maximum of X.
With that, you can always safely have people select their character preferences and map preferences prior to heading into a “ranked match making” and compare those, filter them out equally and avoid potentially having 5 players all of which want to the same character in the same team.

(Glottis-3D) #63

[QUOTE=fubar;483540]And this is exactly why there needs to be drawn a line between competitive and pub play. :frowning:
I believe you’re forcing equality way too hard, this is not CS, they don’t have to deal with abilities and various characters, everyone has the exact same loadout, abilities and guns to their disposal. There’s absolutely no other SUCCESSFUL competitive FPS game I think of that maintains the competitive and casual play to be the same. Even by heading into the moba directive, you don’t see the same character twice in a team.[/QUOTE]
quakelive!

i think there is a chance to make eX this way.

[QUOTE=Smooth;483536]Like I said, we’re not there yet when it comes to balance.

The last thing we want to do is impact how YOUR character performs because a couple of players happened to pick a similar one.

Imagine if they were new to the character and didn’t even use the Molotov (or used it badly) but your cooldown increased because they joined the server. I bet you’d be angry with them / the system.

Also how to Molotovs relate to Artillery Strike Salvos. How about Frag Grenades? What are the cooldown stacking rules there? The system would become far too complex and not obvious to players why things are changing, we want to keep these things simple.[/QUOTE]

please dont be too anxious with veterans. i am ok with some restrictions, that DO help a game to be balanced.
and why all of a sudden this has become about MY character, was not this game about TEAMS ?
at this point the most annoying thing is object-oriented airstrike spamfest (not in a good meaning of ‘spam’) at choke points. this could be solved by map-layout - for example at whitechapel - give more routes for attackers around the def-spammers - so that attackers can oppose to defenders with an easy spam-strategy - that is also a solution, prevent any imba strat by map layout…but i thought it is much more difficult.

about grenages and other heavy weaponry - in all games this is main sourse of imba stuff. this has to be done very carefully.

my suggestion - get rid of cooldown for grenades. 2 nades per life.
and give 1 nade to other classes - you can counter nades with nades. so no stalking and spam.

(fubar) #64

Quake isn’t character based, nor for the most part teambased. Same thing applies as does for CSGO, there’s no special abilities limited to the availability of specific character/classes.

(Glottis-3D) #65

i know, i just love quake :smiley: <333

(Kl3ppy) #66

Well, ETQW has this and tbh I was never mad at other Fops. Yes I prefered to be the only Fops but I didnt really care if the others cant use the airstrike/arty good or not.

(Ashog) #67

2 Questions:

When are the chat bugs (swallowed first letters, inability to chat, missing vsays) going to be finally fixed? I am cursing like hell every time I play due to these issues. Do you want me to get a stoke?

When is the “swap character layout” feature going to be implemented between the matches w/o having to quit the game? This was promised ages ago but still nothing.

(shaftz0r) #68

when are the revive bugs gonna be fixed :stuck_out_tongue:

(spookify) #69

This appears to be an OBJ based game but with all classes going rambo not just medics like other games. I do not see a real penalty for dieing yet… 30 seconds used to suck! Now I spawn almost as soon as I die and im off again… TTK are weird, hits are weird and a bunch of other things are weird. Just feels weird and not team based.

(INF3RN0) #70

This is exactly why we need ability counters across mercs. I really think it will be a much more interesting way to deter singular class stacking purely for abilities and make merc picks way more interesting. Like giving soldier archetypes aoe resistances against explosive damage (aka nades, arty, mines, etc). Having recons detect and capture mines/turrets, disable EVs, sabotage ability C/Ds, etc. Engineer weapons/devices stunting heals. I’m sure something ability counter specific could be applied across all merc archetypes. Implemented in a way that didn’t instantly negate another merc’s abilities, but rather required that player to use teamwork and timed activation of these counter-abilities to have an effect. Throw that and special nades into the game, and you’d have something I’d really want to play.

(attack) #71

[QUOTE=Smooth;483498]We’d much rather the lack of other abilities to balance out the fact people are stacking one class.

If you lack in killing power, health & revives, ammunition, objective proficiency or intel gathering then you’re not going to fare too well against a nicely balanced team.

Of course we’re not there yet but this is the end goal. Class & ability limits are absolutely the last resort and wont be seen any time soon, hopefully never.
[/QUOTE]

at this night i had some ideas.
as the current nadecooking system doesnt get rid of the spam problem , i thought about a more kind of the old ammo system.

ok lets start by pointing out that this system requires that special nades get fuilled with ammo packs.

the problem witrh this system is that with the CURRENT ammo station it would result in spam!
so why not give the station a maximum ammopacks count .

lets say for this example three.

so the whole station have 3 packs ,this would force the teams to think about the person on which the ammopack is most usefull…

now comes the interesting part ! if all 3 packs are taken the field ops which have placed the station have to refill it ,which cost “stamina” .lets say he can do it once every 90 sec .

this would give the attackers 2-3 attacks in which the maximum amount of ammo for the defenders is 6 ammo packs.
(if the defenders use 1 field)

(Protekt1) #72

I’d much rather see character limits than passive abilities and abilities that hard counter other abilities. What is the point of laying down an airstrike if someone can just survive it. Or artillery. Some counters are okay. Soft counters. A grenade that halves healing for example is a soft counter. A grenade that stops all healing is a hard counter. Giving soldiers aoe resistances against explosives… they already do in the form of higher hp. They are more resistant to everything.

(attack) #73

i agree a airstrike should kill anybody.

(INF3RN0) #74

" Implemented in a way that didn’t instantly negate another merc’s abilities, but rather required that player to use teamwork and timed activation of these counter-abilities to have an effect."

Not what I was going for specifically with that brain storm, but instead your jumping to the worst possible scenario that I’d also want to avoid. If these counters were on a c/d and only had temporary effects they wouldn’t be a hard counter all the time- not to mention we’re talking strictly about abilities. The fact that only certain mercs would have situational counters to another merc type abilities would at most amount to countering X mercs opportunity to gain the upper hand in a given situation. An ex. being that perhaps an airstrike is about to kill an engineer repairing, so a soldier runs in and activates their small aoe aura- note that they are still entirely vulnerable to many other forms of damage. It opens up opportunity for making plays against abilities, but in the end gun play is entirely untouched. Abilities are meant to add strategy, not simply result in undeniable kills at the push of a button. If I was stacking air strikes and the other team responded by bringing in more soldier types, that would be perfectly fine by me. The same would go for any number of stacked loadouts. I’d rather have the ability to respond to a situation strategically rather than have hard limits placed on classes/abilities.

(shaftz0r) #75

this was an example i was going to use also

(Protekt1) #76

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;483605]" Implemented in a way that didn’t instantly negate another merc’s abilities, but rather required that player to use teamwork and timed activation of these counter-abilities to have an effect."

Not what I was going for specifically with that brain storm, but instead your jumping to the worst possible scenario that I’d also want to avoid. If these counters were on a c/d and only had temporary effects they wouldn’t be a hard counter all the time- not to mention we’re talking strictly about abilities. The fact that only certain mercs would have situational counters to another merc type abilities would at most amount to countering X mercs opportunity to gain the upper hand in a given situation. An ex. being that perhaps an airstrike is about to kill an engineer repairing, so a soldier runs in and activates their small aoe aura- note that they are still entirely vulnerable to many other forms of damage. It opens up opportunity for making plays against abilities, but in the end gun play is entirely untouched. Abilities are meant to add strategy, not simply result in undeniable kills at the push of a button. If I was stacking air strikes and the other team responded by bringing in more soldier types, that would be perfectly fine by me. The same would go for any number of stacked loadouts. I’d rather have the ability to respond to a situation strategically rather than have hard limits placed on classes/abilities.[/QUOTE]

Negating an airstrike is precisely, precisely, what I hope they don’t do. Airstrikes are hardly undeniable kills at the push of a button. It isn’t exactly strategic to hit an aoe button and make yourself invulnerable to an explosion either.

(Bloodbite) #77

Finally made the effort to briefly log in again… still no Australian servers!

I’m all for testing properly (ie this isnt about playing for fun), but I’m starting to doubt Nexon’s interest in supporting a set of servers for us down here.

Time is in short supply… nobody wants to waste it warping due to region lag making it impossible to even playtest properly.

(Humate) #78

Mechanically airstrikes are supposed to punish players with low battlesense moreso than rewarding players that throw them in correct situations.
Therefore as long as the counter, isnt a set-and-forget type of counter (deployable), and it forces the user of the counter to be aware of whats going on, then I dont see anything wrong with that.

eg diving on the airstrike itself

(INF3RN0) #79

Abilities involve much less effort to use in comparison to gun play, ie pressing a button. As long as they remain that way there’s no means to justify why they need to always be effective, which is why I wouldn’t expect counter abilities to be more than pushing a button either. The airstrike requires you to time it somewhat intelligently maybe, however it’s always going to happen when you throw it. That’s the same as timing a counter quite simply. You can’t do anything to counteract ability use and so it suddenly imposes some problems when people choose to stack them in certain scenarios. If one person can potentially survive 1 airstrike every 3-4 minutes of a game, or save multiple teammates from an airstrike a couple times a game- is that really a serious problem? You still have a gun, you still have other mercs on your team… It’s the fact that actually having the opportunity to counter abilities in some instances during a game completely overturns the possibility of stacking a single class purely for its ability pool when you can react to it.

(INF3RN0) #80

[QUOTE=Humate;483609]Mechanically airstrikes are supposed to punish players with low battlesense moreso than rewarding players that throw them in correct situations.
Therefore as long as the counter, isnt a set-and-forget type of counter (deployable), and it forces the user of the counter to be aware of whats going on, then I dont see anything wrong with that.

eg diving on the airstrike itself[/QUOTE]

Pretty much my view on the subject. It would give the intelligent player the chance to regulate spam, and offer teams going up against single ability stacks the opportunity to make gun play the deciding factor instead.