Hi,
over at etmaps.de I’ve found another version of Goldrush (has the same levelshot):
Super Goldrush
Not sure about the changes.
So I think there are now 5 versions of Goldrush:
Goldrush (stock)
Goldrush with “scriptfix”
Goldrush2_wx_beta2
Goldrush2_fk_b1
Super Goldrush
really stupid if you ask me… :bash: :bash: :bash: I think instead of wanting final maps changed to their liking the comp community should be more open to new maps and support mappers who offer to change their maps towards comp gaming.
Changes of existing maps only lead to useless confusion.
You know, I am goin to make me a model of a nice turd, stick it into Goldrush, maybe around the steps to the bank, and recompile my new baby. I would like then to deliver it personally to the people who are currently raping this map, accompanied by a rose-scented letter:
“Don’t shit on Goldrush, thank you.
Yours sincerely, the Right Honourable Errol Flynn”
I’ve just had a quick run through “super goldrush”.
New walls, new platforms and new passages.
But I think it doesn’t fit at a all to the original map.
i think it’s all a total waste of time, there being so many different versions just makes it more unlikely that any of them will ever be played.
although i don’t think goldrush does need some changes imo the map can benefit from some decent
adjustments to the last stage (bank + truck escort) to make it less stationary gaming. on the other hand
i’m really worried to see everybody popping out their own version of grush. that doesn’t make things
easier of course. i’d like all those mappers willing to out their hands on goldrush to come together and
combine their powers…
… and put their energy into doing something else, like slapping each other’s arses maybe. 
goldrush could be improved, but couldnt everything?
im gona start the ‘Goldrush go home’ Campaign of '04
Join me, or DIE!!!
Campaign
Good catchword. Seems to be time for publishing a campaign file to support this madness:
{
name "Grush4Ever!!!11"
shortname "cmpgn_best_of_goldrush"
description "Grush mods for all teh 1337 comp playas out there!!11"
maps "grush_scriptf*ck;grush2;grush2_the_better_one;kick-ass-grush)"
mapTC 374 374
type "wolfmp"
}
Let’s go server admins! :rocker:
Well, I am making a modification of Goldrush, and I don’t like the fact that I’m getting shit on for my work. Now, to be honest, it’s only half of the community that is upset, while the other half is actually optimistic about it. Now, you may say, make your own level. I am. I even have one just about ready for a final release, but I’ve yet to have even one full clan test it. I’ve had a competition player run around in it and point out some things, and I’ve fixed them. Now, I can release a new beta, but since it would be the sixth beta, I feel like taking a break from it. When you have 8 total releases of a level just to have interest wane, you kind of decide to leave it for a bit, just because you are so bored with it.
Now, as a break, I am changing goldrush a bit, and have recieved positive feedback, but people are complaining, despite it being an early (And leaked) release, that what I have done is horrible. Some have not even played the level and are making horrible comments about it. But I do not care, because it is not my little baby, it’s a break from my baby which has hit its “Now for everything you to do me I shall annoy you back 10 fold” phase. Someone complained about Goldrush, I took it upon myself to fix it, giving me a break from regular mapping. But now, with people not even playing it, I am getting abused about it.
Maybe you should just wait and see if it is good. If it is, fantastic! Then maybe it will be played. If not? Then it sinks and dies like any other custom. Just let the natural flow of things work it out.
So, to summarize: “O, I am bored and fed up with my own maps and people not being arsed with them after all my effort. I know! I’ll fuck about with Goldrush for a while and release that, for a break, like”.
When you put it like that it makes perfect sense… :uhoh:
In fact, your own sentence describes the current situation, and why no-one should make Goldrush2:
I’ve had a competition player run around in it and point out some things, and I’ve fixed them. Now, I can release a new beta, but… … When you have 8 total releases of a level just to have interest wane, you kind of decide to leave it for a bit, just because you are so bored with it.
The irony of what you are doing is shocking to say the least.
Well, if you want people to make custom levels, then perhaps you should give them a motive. When what they do is not being recognized, it makes it seem like a waste of time. Of course, some may go with the belief that it doesn’t matter what other people think as long as you like what you have done. Mapping is fun, but when no one plays the level, it can be discouraging.
Now, on the other hand, you also say that my sentence is ironic. I do not think it is. When you have ONE PERSON working on ONE LEVEL with eight releases and little feedback, it’s different than FIVE people working on the same template with each only having one or two releases. I also fail to see what the last sentence has to do with irony. I’m trying to figure out what you mean, but I am at a loss. Do you mean that all the versions of goldrush are causing people to become uninterested? With all the activity about it, and how it is still used in competition (Or at least I’ve heard that), it seems like interest is as high as ever.
Perhaps I release the next beta of my level. What then? It will most likely sit there and be unused. But maybe I can tell washout that it’s not for release, and he’ll post it on ET-Center. So how about this: I’ll release the next beta of my level, and if I get enough feedback, I’ll stop modifying Goldrush and release the source for someone else to take up. Or would you just like to see that version die completely? If that is the case, I am sorry to say it will not die a permanent death. At the very least, someone else will be releasing a modified Goldrush. Freak has a vested interest in it, and perhaps once he learns enough, he can release a version how he thinks it would help competition.
Now, you may say that no one wants it anyway. In that case, why don’t you just let it die like any other custom level? You are putting levels down before they are finished. You are saying everyone should stop mapping because you don’t believe that it needs a change. Perhaps others do. There are people who want Goldrush changed. Bani has already changed Battery and Fueldump. Why are you not bashing those? Because they are options? So are these modified Goldrushes. If you don’t like it, don’t use them, but the very least you could do is provided constructive critisism.
Meh.
First, weblion, you have to remember that the ‘competitive community’ has a large number of vocal prima donnas who have essentially no grasp of manners or rational thought. Even if your map was the most perfect thing since the garden of eden, they would still be jumping up and down and bitching. (and FWIW, I’m not aiming this at eRRoLfLyNN, who has shown himself to be thoughtful on a number of occasions)
If you want to make your own version of goldrush, no one but activision can stop you. Ignore the whiners, and enjoy.
If you want to ‘fix’ goldrush for competition play, I think you are going about it in the wrong way. My feeling (which, IMO, is shared by a pretty fair number of competition players) is that goldrush is a good map, which is slightly too defensively biased for SW, and somewhat long.
Goldrush, IMO, is less flawed than fueldump and battery were for comp play, so the corresponding changes shouldn’t be more drastic. If you want to fix it, the way to go about it would be to find the minimal change that makes it more offensive, preferably by watching demos of matches where good teams had a lot of full holds, to identify the problem areas. Resist the temptation to put in stuff just because it is ‘cool’. Focus on simple changes with specific goals. My preliminary suggestions would be to make the axis spawn farther from the bank, and to make the bank somewhat harder to defend. The tank phase could be speeded up by eliminating one or more of the barriers, and/or making them harder to defend.
As far as there being too many versions of goldrush, this is somewhat true, and a good argument for not messing with the stock maps without reason, but the ones that suck will fall out of most rotations fairly quickly. Its an annoyance, not the end of the world 
Weblion:
Well, if you want people to make custom levels, then perhaps you should give them a motive. When what they do is not being recognized, it makes it seem like a waste of time.
If you can’t see the irony in this I give up. I will spell it out. It is the same argument I have been repeating since changes to Goldrush were proposed a few weeks ago (and now everybody seems to be havin’ a whack at “fixing” Goldrush).
If what you are doing is not being recognized it’s because the players (I am talking about competition specifically now) really don’t give a damn about what you have created. Sure they will tell you what they want and how they desperately need new maps for competition, but when you eventually give them what they’ve whined for, they totally ignore it. Instead they would prefer to rework the original maps. Which, if I was a serious mapper, would make me very unlikely to want to map for comp again.
Your situation:
You have worked for a long time on a map, and have received some constructive criticism from a comp player telling you what to change etc. You have put a lot of effort into getting it right. You release the map, no-one cares.
You start work on modifying Goldrush.
If it is released and is a success in competition, it has taken the place of a true custom map that someone has spent time and energy creating from scratch (potentially your map).
If the trend continues maybe all the original maps will be changed in a similar manner.
The motivation for a mapper to spend time mapping for comp becomes very low, because he/she knows it is pointless.
A mapper who has experienced the lack of interest should be one of the last people to mod Goldrush, seeing as it is a slap in the face to mappers who are trying hard to make original maps.
That is the irony of your situation.
@SCDS_reyalP, I agree with most of your points, and in general that maybe Goldrush needs change, but it’s the principle of what is happening that I’m arguing against. That Goldrush2 will take the place of a true custom map that someone has spent time tuning for comp play, simply because players can’t be arsed learning the new map. They would rather play an “easier” Goldrush. Thanks for the compliment btw…
Well, if you want people to make custom levels, then perhaps you should give them a motive. When what they do is not being recognized, it makes it seem like a waste of time.
You are wrong here: a mapper should find its motive (and especially motivation) for a map either within himself or develop it by talking to others about his idea. Working with/on a motive that he didn’t at least partially develop is always a bad thing, because it totally makes him dependent of positive feedback from others. This will be his only motivation, and if that fails its clear he ll feel like he wasted his time.
If someone only maps for getting recognized he s on the wrong train and should take another route to getting recognization. He will all too easily end up being frustrated with his work not earning him what he wants. (And maybe he ll start working on something that will more likely and easily earn him recognization.)
If the motivation and motive come from the mapper himself, doing a map he s satisfied with will not even be a waste of time when nobody plays it. The satisfaction and being content comes from the success of creation. Ppl playing his map makes it even better, though 
. And I d say this kind of maps tends to be recognized more by players because you can see the mapper put quite some effort in it and worked on the details with “love” for his work.
About changes on goldrush: no need to mess with the map… I totally agree with reyal: keep it absolutely simple. Everything else is trying to get a credit for a work that s not basically his. And: I d bet my ass on it that even when you do the changes as the “competitive community” wants it, they will not be satisfyed. So y bother at all? If they don’t like a map, y do they keep playing it? Sounds like a stupid concept to me (but eRRoL said all about this already).
just a sidethought: Did you get written permission from activistion to change goldrush, lion?
I’ve had a look at “Super Goldrush”.
And I don’t like it at all.
I’ve played “Goldrush2_wx_beta2” and “Goldrush2_fk_b1” on public servers.
And I don’t think that these are improved versions of Goldrush (stock).
I think it’s nearly impossible to get the gold out of the bank.
Advantage: More routes to the bank.
Disadvantage: Usage of the balcony / gallery inside the bank.
So as soon as you enter the bank you get shot from behind and above.
Where does it end??? This opens the door to modify all the stock maps. As a purely pub player, I always thought Radar had something lacking…that the beautiful road that goes passed the little health/ammo/mg hut, curls to the left and goes over a bridge should be more than just eye candy. It’s almost like SD planned to have the allies escort the truck once the radar parts were capped…Should we allow mappers to modify Radar and add this?? It would be easy to add spline points for the truck (and add the barriers that are being ripped out of Goldrush…)
I have a mind to do this for one reason…modify Radar (one of the favorite maps for competition) to make it more suitable and enjoyable for pub play (and hence unsuitable for comp play). The opposite is being done to Goldrush, so why not mod maps to make them better for pub play???
I’m afraid everything that could be done will be done.
But I think rules and rights should be followed.
As far as I remember there’s a thread here in the forums with the idea to continue the official maps.
And one idea has been the descript scenario.
Secure the truck with the radar parts over the bridge.
You won’t win anything by making the truck escortable because you d need a new axis spawn too or they d never be able to block the truck.
I think the reason y there is a bridge and so on is because radar is a part of the singleplayer that never got released cuz SD didn’t get the AI-part of ET work properly.
But we should stop thinking about modifying stock maps. As its been said already: modifying stock maps is LAME and shows lack of creativity you d need to make up a real good map of your own.
AND its still ILLEGAL.
But we should stop thinking about modifying stock maps. As its been said already: modifying stock maps is LAME and shows lack of creativity you d need to make up a real good map of your own.
I agree. My previous post was ‘tongue and cheek’ - but I wanted to bring up the point that all stock maps will be modified now (Goldrush is the easiest because you have the .map file) Of course, one can decompile any map (especially the stock ones) - but more work is involved. Retexturing would have to be done, structural vs detail, etc. But once the trend has begun…And any reason could be used. Maybe Oasis should be a night map - replace sky texture and recompile. Give the allies the Old City spawn in the beginning and only have them blow up one gun…all the stock maps will be muddied and ET will be worse off for it.
I’m afraid everything that could be done will be done.
That is my fear also…
I believe Schaffer suggested ‘sequel maps’ to the stock ones - which is a good idea. But any maps would receive harsher criticism since they would be directly compared to a specific stock map.