Give me the option to not be included in Backfilling.

[Faraleth]

As much as I agree that this would be nice… It would also be horrible. As soon as you do that, you’d have so many people selecting “I don’t want to be a back-filler”, that games with leavers would nearly never be back-filled, and it would lead to a higher amount of bad games than there are right now.

Honestly, I just think CMM needs harsher penalties for repeat leavers and possibly a small amount of “hassle compensation” for those who become back-fillers. This could just be a small amount of exp, or maybe a slight credit boost from the match, in order to offset the queueing time and the short amount of time played, due to being a back-fill.

[SnakekillerX]

@Faraleth said:
As much as I agree that this would be nice… It would also be horrible. As soon as you do that, you’d have so many people selecting “I don’t want to be a back-filler”, that games with leavers would nearly never be back-filled, and it would lead to a higher amount of bad games than there are right now.

Honestly, I just think CMM needs harsher penalties for repeat leavers and possibly a small amount of “hassle compensation” for those who become back-fillers. This could just be a small amount of exp, or maybe a slight credit boost from the match, in order to offset the queueing time and the short amount of time played, due to being a back-fill.

Yes, exactly.

[BloodySin]

@SnakekillerX said:
And if we want to talk about petty, I can think not too far back where a whole game mode was removed because some people didn’t play it and wanted to see it gone for some reason rather than keep a few servers up for people who enjoyed the game mode and only played that game mode. That game mode will remain nameless.
So your reasoning is “people were petty on muh Execution, so I’ll be petty on how they have their fun”? You do realize they removed it because they didn’t want to support it anymore, not because some people wanted to see it gone, right? Does blaming “some people” makes it easier to deal with the fact it’s gone and buried?

[Homu1124]

As a non-Exec guy their decision does not affect me much (if their only 5% of players estimate is accurate). Back filling is really meant for unintentional DC’s from matches, though I do understand that people leave during a fail matchmaking match. But you can’t predict that. At times you may be the player that brings them back. But the important thing at this point is to reduce the amount of 1-2 player down matches that lead to more bad blood. I’d say keep their current system and just improve the matchmaking algorithm.

[SnakekillerX]

@BloodySin said:

@SnakekillerX said:
And if we want to talk about petty, I can think not too far back where a whole game mode was removed because some people didn’t play it and wanted to see it gone for some reason rather than keep a few servers up for people who enjoyed the game mode and only played that game mode. That game mode will remain nameless.
So your reasoning is “people were petty on muh Execution, so I’ll be petty on how they have their fun”? You do realize they removed it because they didn’t want to support it anymore, not because some people wanted to see it gone, right? Does blaming “some people” makes it easier to deal with the fact it’s gone and buried?

This option would have negative impact on everyone playing CMM as they would suffer from fewer/no back filled games.

Being petty is expecting a community of people to provide each other a service, utilize that service, but not want to contribute to the service.

The people who will not help provide the service should not benefit from it. Disallowing people to benefit from the service if not participating in it incentives people to participate, so they can utilize that service. I feel like this really isn’t that hard of a pill to swallow.

As for my views on Execution, it really doesn’t require much resources to keep running… it really doesn’t. Just because they gave a reason for removing it doesn’t mean there was no other option. Fewer servers would have made everyone happy, instead they just removed it because the majority didn’t care as it didn’t affect them in any way.

The petty part I was referring to though is how so many people who didn’t play the mode were so in favor of its removal when they knew there was a small community of players who really enjoyed it. They literally gained nothing from its removal, however the people who played it lost a lot.

[Melinder]

You may be able to get balanced matches initially, but much like Server Browser matches, once players leave, it all goes downhill from there. This system that sits in between the Ranked system and the Server Browser system clearly isn’t working. Commit to one of them.

[BloodySin]

@SnakekillerX said:
Being petty is expecting a community of people to provide each other a service, utilize that service, but not want to contribute to the service.
The people who will not help provide the service should not benefit from it. Disallowing people to benefit from the service if not participating in it incentives people to participate, so they can utilize that service. I feel like this really isn’t that hard of a pill to swallow.
No, being petty is wanting to deny players a completely valid option because it might mean you won’t get people forced to fill your own game. If you dislike backfilling, use that option. If you don’t mind backfilling, don’t be petty and refuse to backfill for those who do. That’s about as absurd and childish as going “no one wants to play medic so I won’t play medic either and fuck the team - even though I don’t mind playing medic” or “custom servers will mean less people playing the server I play/will have limits I don’t like, so they can’t ever happen - even if other people want to play them”

As for my views on Execution, it really doesn’t require much resources to keep running… it really doesn’t. Just because they gave a reason for removing it doesn’t mean there was no other option. Fewer servers would have made everyone happy, instead they just removed it because the majority didn’t care as it didn’t affect them in any way.
It doesn’t matters. It could cost zero resources. They didn’t want to keep it, it’s gone. Get over it and stop trying to blame “some people” when all they did at most was agree with what was already decided by Splash Damage.

[SnakekillerX]

@BloodySin said:

@SnakekillerX said:
Being petty is expecting a community of people to provide each other a service, utilize that service, but not want to contribute to the service.
The people who will not help provide the service should not benefit from it. Disallowing people to benefit from the service if not participating in it incentives people to participate, so they can utilize that service. I feel like this really isn’t that hard of a pill to swallow.
No, being petty is wanting to deny players a completely valid option because it might mean you won’t get people forced to fill your own game. If you dislike backfilling, use that option. If you don’t mind backfilling, don’t be petty and refuse to backfill for those who do. That’s about as absurd and childish as going “no one wants to play medic so I won’t play medic either and @$!# the team - even though I don’t mind playing medic” or “custom servers will mean less people playing the server I play/will have limits I don’t like, so they can’t ever happen - even if other people want to play them”

As for my views on Execution, it really doesn’t require much resources to keep running… it really doesn’t. Just because they gave a reason for removing it doesn’t mean there was no other option. Fewer servers would have made everyone happy, instead they just removed it because the majority didn’t care as it didn’t affect them in any way.
It doesn’t matters. It could cost zero resources. They didn’t want to keep it, it’s gone. Get over it and stop trying to blame “some people” when all they did at most was agree with what was already decided by Splash Damage.

I can see talking to you is pointless. Good day.

[BloodySin]

@SnakekillerX said:
I can see talking to you is pointless. Good day.
I couldn’t have expected a different result from an ego who still wants to blame people for a game mode being gone, and who whines about letting people have options in game modes they like, while wanting to deny others to have options because of not liking it. But then again this is the second time - the first being about character skins - so the “it’s only an option when I want it” implied motto was already known.

[SnakekillerX]

@BloodySin said:

@SnakekillerX said:
I can see talking to you is pointless. Good day.
I couldn’t have expected a different result from an ego who still wants to blame people for a game mode being gone, and who whines about letting people have options in game modes they like, while wanting to deny others to have options because of not liking it. But then again this is the second time - the first being about character skins - so the “it’s only an option when I want it” implied motto was already known.

Only back here to explain the other situation since you decided to bring it up. I’m against silly skins, unless you give me the option to hide them (show as default). Then I don’t care, go nuts. I’ve made that part clear.

[BloodySin]

@SnakekillerX said:
Only back here to explain the other situation since you decided to bring it up. I’m against silly skins, unless you give me the option to hide them (show as default). Then I don’t care, go nuts. I’ve made that part clear.
And “some people” (apparently quite a lot) were against “silly game modes,” which you happened to enjoy (on the case of skins, you hadn’t said anything about options to turn their exhibition off).

My point is on many things you want to have options (or wanted to still have the option) you wish for or like. Wanting to deny other people to have certain options because you dislike them is doing exactly what you accuse people of having done about your preferred game mode. Be consistent, either in being open to options you aren’t forced to take or in not complaining when the ones you like are trashed.

[SnakekillerX]

From a player’s perspective.

1. Execution:

Keeping it:
Pros - People who like execution can still play it and have a good time.
Cons - People who don’t like it, might have to know it exists.

Removing it:
Pros - ???
Cons - A whole game mode which some people love to play is removed.

2. Silly Skins:

Adding them:
Pros - Mercs look silly, and there might be some “lolz”.
Cons - Mercs look silly, and there might be some “wtf is this shit?”.

Adding an option to show silly skins as default skins:
Pros - People who don’t like the silly don’t have to see the silly.
Cons - ???

3. Opt out of back filling option:

Pros - You don’t have to back fill servers.
Cons - Servers have less of a player pool to back fill servers… which affects people’s games.

I’m not selfish, I try and see both sides of the coin before I post something… but you seem to not care at all that you would be causing a problem when it comes to back filling. Not only would you not be a part of it, but you would cause the people who are open to back filling to have to do it even more often because you don’t want to do it at all.

[watsyurdeal]

@SnakekillerX said:
Removing it:
Pros - ???
Cons - A whole game mode which some people love to play is removed.

Alright, leaving out the pros is genuinely dishonest. So I am going to add them for you

1. Makes balancing the game harder because you have to worry about how certain mercs affect one game mode vs another. You can not argue that Stopwatch and Execution are the same, they are not.

2. We need servers to run the mode, which costs SD money, which means less resources and time to develop other content for the game.

3. You have to somehow encourage the majority of your community to play a game mode that they genuinely dislike, so you can test and balance certain mechanics and maps. Which after a year or so of trying ultimately failed.

I get BloodySin can be difficult to argue with, but do not be dishonest and misrepresent the facts of what happened with Execution.

[BloodySin]

@SnakekillerX

From other players’ perspective.

1. Execution

Keeping it:
Pros: none
Cons: none/waste of resource

Removing it:
Pros: resources used elsewhere
Cons: none

2. Fanservice Skins

Adding them:
Pros: more options to people who want them, it’s not going to affect my aim
Cons: none, it’s not going to affect my aim

Adding an option to show ANY skin as default, including current ones:
Pros: why don’t we have this already?
Cons: none

3. Opt out of backfilling:

Pros: people can have fun in fresh games instead of being forced into games they don’t want to join and will just leave or stay unwillingly
Cons: people with losing games won’t get more people to lose with them as starter players quit instead of sticking around to lose

I’m not selfish, I try and see both sides of the coin before I post something… but you seem to not care at all that you would be causing a problem when it comes to back filling. Not only would you not be a part of it, but you would cause the people who are open to back filling to have to do it even more often because you don’t want to do it at all.
If you’re not selfish, you’re just close-minded around what you want for options only. But it’s hard to not see “I don’t want people to have an option because then they won’t be forced to do something they don’t like which is beneficial for me if they have to do” as not selfish - as much as you considered it selfish that people wanted Execution gone when they didn’t even play it.

[SnakekillerX]

@watsyurdeal said:

@SnakekillerX said:
Removing it:
Pros - ???
Cons - A whole game mode which some people love to play is removed.

Alright, leaving out the pros is genuinely dishonest. So I am going to add them for you

1. Makes balancing the game harder because you have to worry about how certain mercs affect one game mode vs another. You can not argue that Stopwatch and Execution are the same, they are not.

2. We need servers to run the mode, which costs SD money, which means less resources and time to develop other content for the game.

3. You have to somehow encourage the majority of your community to play a game mode that they genuinely dislike, so you can test and balance certain mechanics and maps. Which after a year or so of trying ultimately failed.

I get BloodySin can be difficult to argue with, but do not be dishonest and misrepresent the facts of what happened with Execution.

That isn’t a Player’s perspective that is a Developer’s perspective. We the players have expressed that we would rather have Execution in the way it is, with no further development or support, than having it removed.

So there is no pros from a player’s standpoint to removing a game mode. It doesn’t help anyone with anything.

[BloodySin]

The players are directly affected by all those things… any cent, any minute of coding, any brainstorming thrown at balancing things for Execution, were all resources that could be being used for things everyone else in the player base would enjoy and use more than a game mode they didn’t care about.

[watsyurdeal]

@SnakekillerX said:
So there is no pros from a player’s standpoint to removing a game mode. It doesn’t help anyone with anything.

You don’t speak for all players though, and many of us do think from a developer’s standpoint because we care about Dirty Bomb. We care about making the best it can be, even if that means compromising on things.

And again, you’re talking about a minority of people who actually played execution, and not much more people who thought it should stay.

There is no facts to support the notion that the game mode was worth keeping, I don’t know the exact figures behind the time and money, but I imagine it’s a good section of both, otherwise they would not have removed it.

But, this isn’t about execution, it’s started from people being selfish. Who want other people to come in and fill in empty spots that people leave, but wouldn’t do it themselves. And to that I say it’s a crap discussion all around. It’s gonna happen whether we have a server browser or match making. The only real solution is a small bonus for joining a game halfway done, and that bonus ranging depending on how much you help, other than that, it’s just the way it is.

[SnakekillerX]

The developers don’t have to spend money to do NOTHING with a game mode. Period.
There are many empty servers even still with Execution mode being gone, all people asked for was to keep some Execution servers active. Not to put more work into them, but to just leave it as is.

What we asked for was to do nothing, but that wasn’t good enough so they removed it.
What we are really arguing in this thread however is an option that has a direct negative impact on a new game feature CMM and I guess that’s ok. I expressed liking Execution, my bad.

[watsyurdeal]

@SnakekillerX said:
The developers don’t have to spend money to do NOTHING with a game mode. Period.
There are many empty servers even still with Execution mode being gone, all people asked for was to keep some Execution servers active. Not to put more work into them, but to just leave it as is.

Adding maps, adding new mercs, adding or changing ANYTHING about the game will inherently affect the mode. The fact you do not understand that is nobody’s fault but your own. Javelin is a perfect example.

And regardless of whether there are empty servers, they are objectively more likely to be empty if they were execution vs stopwatch.

What we are really arguing in this thread however is an option that has a direct negative impact on a new game feature CMM and I guess that’s ok.

Ok so back on track then, but the discussion still is relatively the same, there is no reason to encourage or punish people for leaving in a casual setting. Ranked is one thing, but Casual is another, the whole point of casual is in the name.

If you people want a matchmaking system with all these different rules to ensure every match is this oh my god glorious game experience every single time, PLAY RANKED.

[SnakekillerX]

@watsyurdeal said:
If you people want a matchmaking system with all these different rules to ensure every match is this oh my god glorious game experience every single time, PLAY RANKED.

And what exactly does this have to do with back filling?