Gibbing takes too long.

(lovelyRaptor) #1

From what I’ve seen, pubs and matchmaking feel like two separate games. This post stems from what I’ve noticed in matchmaking and suggestions for it.

Enemies on the ground are simply too tanky. As it is now you can continuously be shooting someone from the moment they are downed and medics still have enough time to revive. I don’t understand how this is good game play, especially coupled with the revive protection.

I didn’t play any of the ETs or any of the other SD games, so I don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing from the fact that it’s this way after 2 years of testing and lack of forum threads on the matter that it’s supposed to be like this. It just doesn’t make sense to me why it’s portrayed that you have the responsibility of finishing your kills, when at the end of the day, your enemy is in control of the situation. Like I said, I have not played previous SD games, so I might not be looking at it with the right perspective. Maybe someone can help me see the logic behind it.

Suggestions:

  1. Make downed targets squishier. Either to the point where they can be gibbed before a medic can revive or only the fastest medics can revive with an enemy shooting the body continuously.

  2. Make the defibrillator have delay from when you press the button for it/click. Could add a skillful timing element to it perhaps where only the best medics can revive before a gib. Might even make medic appealing to some.

  3. Remove the revive protection all together, at least in MM. I don’t really like the idea of giving enemy medics a chance to revive unless there is skill involved, but I this would be better then it is now.

Again, I have MM in mind with this post.

(Eox) #2

There’s actually some perks that are available to make you able to quickly finish oponents from afar. Throwing Knife is the one perfect exemple that comes in my mind. Making finishing targets less ammo consuming may remove the point about using those kind of augments. Better paying attention about the subject we’re talking about here, because making those augment useless wouldn’t be a good thing at all IMO.

At the end, I don’t think I would make downed targets easier to kill. But maybe the defibrillator have to be limited in some way. Full medic teams are able to steamroll like that, and a single medic may be able to revive the whole quad instantly without any real effort : this feels a bit wrong.

(Silent) #3

Remove the invunerability from a revive, then when a medic goes to ress, kill him again, and poke at the medic a little… get a teammate to help out and you now have a dead medic and other class :slight_smile:

(Amerika) #4

I think it’s perfectly fine the way it is. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but if you go for headshots on a downed body the gib out super quick. So you have to know that and use it to your advantage at range to pull it off. Also, if you kill somebody who is in front of you or near you then you can easily switch to the knife, sprint and gib them before their body even hits the ground. Not only is it super effective and not waste bullets but looks awesome too.

So yeah, I think the system is perfect how it is. It adds skill to a part of most FPS’s that doesn’t typically have skill associated with it in multiple ways and I am always for adding little things to give a game a higher skill ceiling.

(Darkcola) #5

[quote=“lovelyRaptor;1919”]From what I’ve seen, pubs and matchmaking feel like two separate games. This post stems from what I’ve noticed in matchmaking and suggestions for it.

Enemies on the ground are simply too tanky. As it is now you can continuously be shooting someone from the moment they are downed and medics still have enough time to revive. I don’t understand how this is good game play, especially coupled with the revive protection.

I didn’t play any of the ETs or any of the other SD games, so I don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing from the fact that it’s this way after 2 years of testing and lack of forum threads on the matter that it’s supposed to be like this. It just doesn’t make sense to me why it’s portrayed that you have the responsibility of finishing your kills, when at the end of the day, your enemy is in control of the situation. Like I said, I have not played previous SD games, so I might not be looking at it with the right perspective. Maybe someone can help me see the logic behind it.

Suggestions:

  1. Make downed targets squishier. Either to the point where they can be gibbed before an medic can revive or only the fastest medics can revive with an enemy shooting the body continuously.

  2. Make the defibrillator have delay from when you press the button for it/click. Could add a skillful timing element to it perhaps where only the best medics can revive before a gib. Might even make medic appealing to some.

  3. Remove the revive protection all together, at least in MM. I don’t really like the idea of giving enemy medics a chance to revive unless there is skill involved, but I this would be better then it is now.

Again, I have MM in mind with this post. [/quote]

aim for the head.

(Zenity) #6

Also when somebody is revived instantly, they don’t end up with full health so you should be able to take them out again and try to get the medic.

All this means is that you really need to overpower an opposing squad to take them out, which has always been part of the RTCW playing style. It can be frustrating when you are not used to it, but it’s not game breaking or unbalanced in any way (hey, you have your own medics :)).

Crossfire is extremely powerful, but gibbing is harder from a distance so this create a bit of balance in this regard. Going in close and personal is more risky but makes it easier to gib, not just because you can stab them, but also because you can use your body to block a medic from reaching the fallen enemy. You would see this quite a bit in RTCW/ET, where a player takes out one enemy, then quickly move on top of the body to block and take out a medic trying to revive. It’s a bit cocky and you look like a fool when it fails, but it can be very effective in the right situation.

(lovelyRaptor) #7

[quote=“Amerika;10539”]I think it’s perfectly fine the way it is. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but if you go for headshots on a downed body the gib out super quick. So you have to know that and use it to your advantage at range to pull it off. Also, if you kill somebody who is in front of you or near you then you can easily switch to the knife, sprint and gib them before their body even hits the ground. Not only is it super effective and not waste bullets but looks awesome too.

So yeah, I think the system is perfect how it is. It adds skill to a part of most FPS’s that doesn’t typically have skill associated with it in multiple ways and I am always for adding little things to give a game a higher skill ceiling.[/quote]

Medics in MM premades near insta revive players, especially a fragger they are usually following around. You can barely get 2-3 shots off before the revive, if even that many. I realize headshots gib faster, but like I said, you really have no chance if the enemy medic is there.

While you can say it’s a skill to gib players, on the other hand it is way too easy to revive waiting around corners with a defib out. I’m also in favor of making skill ceilings higher, which is what I think something like a defibrillator delay would do.

(Ardez1) #8

Using the defibs on downed enemies is also an auto gib like the knife. Love doing that :smiley:

Being a medic is more tricky than you think. I spend a lot of time getting shot at because people don’t want to see an enemy revived. I also don’t play the ‘hide behind a corner until somebody is downed’ game either.

Rather then add a timer to the defib(which is really doesn’t need) make it so that players revive with a lower percentage of hp. That way a medic has to work to get their teammates into fighting condition. They should revive in ‘the red’ with no charge time and 3/4 when fully charged(IMHO). Currently they come back around half with no charge and full/near full when you charge a bit.

It might also be good to make the defib a little heavier(so you move a little slower) with it out.

I think those are acceptable nerfs that could definitely increase the skill requirement to play a medic. Going for the throat and adding a timer will just kill the class. It already has a brief cooldown between revives(although it usually only takes the travel time to get to the next downed teammate).

(Amerika) #9

[quote=“lovelyRaptor;10560”][quote=“Amerika;10539”]I think it’s perfectly fine the way it is. I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but if you go for headshots on a downed body the gib out super quick. So you have to know that and use it to your advantage at range to pull it off. Also, if you kill somebody who is in front of you or near you then you can easily switch to the knife, sprint and gib them before their body even hits the ground. Not only is it super effective and not waste bullets but looks awesome too.

So yeah, I think the system is perfect how it is. It adds skill to a part of most FPS’s that doesn’t typically have skill associated with it in multiple ways and I am always for adding little things to give a game a higher skill ceiling.[/quote]

Medics in MM premades near insta revive players, especially a fragger they are usually following around. You can barely get 2-3 shots off before the revive, if even that many. I realize headshots gib faster, but like I said, you really have no chance if the enemy medic is there.

While you can say it’s a skill to gib players, on the other hand it is way too easy to revive waiting around corners with a defib out. I’m also in favor of making skill ceilings higher, which is what I think something like a defibrillator delay would do. [/quote]

Part of the meta game is to get the medic to come out. If they always come out instantly you prefire them like crazy and end up with a quick kill before they can even get the guy up. So you can use the body as bait.

I just don’t agree that it’s too slow to gib. Use your knife, aim for the head and use the body to bait out medics and pre-fire them.

(bubblesKeyboard) #10

My experience as a medic in competitive (where everyone gibs) is that if you aren’t in close proxy with a downed teammate you have no chance of reviving them.

(Player2) #11

If medics get their rightfully deserved nerf, then gibs are fine as is. I agree that medics are a problem right now, but I would rather SD nerf revives than buff gibs.

(Darkcola) #12

again, this is a derivative of an old genre rtcw/et etc. Medics were always very powerful classes in this game format. I do not think there is any good way to get around this without changing a fundamental of the game’s core. However, do not go taking on a good medic surrounded by a team or even one good fragger alone- especially if it is an aura behind a corner with a healing station.

(einstyle) #13

the only problem I have with downed players is that they’re sometimes performing this weird spin around, turning around 180°
very annoying if you’re trying to headshot their bodies
if they remove this, it’s fine in my book

(Amerika) #14

[quote=“carefulCoral;10692”]the only problem I have with downed players is that they’re sometimes performing this weird spin around, turning around 180°
very annoying if you’re trying to headshot their bodies
if they remove this, it’s fine in my book[/quote]

Yeah, that is annoying. I’d also like to be able to shoot through the model and get a count towards a headshot if they fall to the wrong side. But I could also live without that too and leave it to just random chance.

(Glot) #15

I think that gibbing should be easier.
like 30% less damage needed to gib.

(sinKrin) #16

Cricket bat works :smiley:

(lovelyRaptor) #17

I’m going to assume anyone saying I should knife hasn’t experienced what I’m talking about(or maybe it is even considered normal in your eyes from past ETs). These people are simply revived by the time you even take your knife out. I’ve actually witnessed enemy medics defibbing a low HP fragger, in anticipation of the death.

All I’m saying is, it seems like bad game play, to play or to watch. I think the fact that there is revive protection has something to do with it too though. I guess I’ll just try to get used to it and see how it works as more and more people play.

(Amerika) #18

[quote=“lovelyRaptor;11180”]I’m going to assume anyone saying I should knife hasn’t experienced what I’m talking about(or maybe it is even considered normal in your eyes from past ETs). These people are simply revived by the time you even take your knife out. I’ve actually witnessed enemy medics defibbing a low HP fragger, in anticipation of the death.

All I’m saying is, it seems like bad game play, to play or to watch. I think the fact that there is revive protection has something to do with it too though. I guess I’ll just try to get used to it and see how it works as more and more people play.[/quote]

Good medics will have their paddles charged and defib before the body hits the ground. That’s just part of the game and if the gib time was half they still would have been revived in that case. You just need to go for heads on the ground. People gib out so fast if you do that. You can also use bodies to bait medics out and use nades/mines to get them or simply rush them as they have paddles out and can do nothing.

You might not like it but I don’t think it’s going to change. There is a lot of mind games and there are ways to gib people out with the current setup and I like it now that I feel more confident in choices I can make in those situations.

(Zenity) #19

[quote=“lovelyRaptor;11180”]I’m going to assume anyone saying I should knife hasn’t experienced what I’m talking about(or maybe it is even considered normal in your eyes from past ETs). These people are simply revived by the time you even take your knife out. I’ve actually witnessed enemy medics defibbing a low HP fragger, in anticipation of the death.

All I’m saying is, it seems like bad game play, to play or to watch. I think the fact that there is revive protection has something to do with it too though. I guess I’ll just try to get used to it and see how it works as more and more people play.[/quote]

It’s also part of what makes the battles so epic. You’ll have to take that medic out somehow, of course you can’t do that alone but you can’t really expect to win a 1on2 anyway (assuming skills are equal). It isn’t unusual to take out waves of enemies multiple times before finally sending them to respawn. While you keep killing them and they keep reviving, they cannot make progress towards the objective which is what matters. Also a medic focused on reviving cannot contribute to killing you, so that’s one advantage for you. It’s all about overpowering the other side until they can’t keep up any longer.

(Silent) #20

the problem is the invulnerability, if you’re ressed you act as a bullet soak and block the medic from taking dmg.