So, what’s the story on cl_timenudge when server has g_antilag 1? Some say one should adjust cl_timenudge only when server has g_antilag 0, but others say it makes hitting easier on laggy (>80ms) server even if server has g_antilag 1. Can anyone with knowledge and facts about the ET netcode clarify this?
g_antilag 1 and cl_timenudge
Rippin_Kitten
(Rippin Kitten)
#2
This has to do with the way the netcode works, which is unfortunatly a big messy topic. Instead of typing out a huge discourse of how everything works (which I almost got half way through doing before realizing that no one would read through that much stuff =) ), I thought it’d be better just to quickly explain why you would use both commands.
cl_timenudge adds artifical “lag” to your game client to help better predict the movement of other players. This way the client can interpolate the position of objects based on the most recent gamestate and the delay you are running at instead of extrapolating this based on the current gamestate alone. It can be used for laggy connections to help smooth out player movement so they don’t jerk and hop around. With non-antilag servers this does cause a problem, since what you are seeing on your client is that much more removed with what’s going on in the “real world” on the server. A player could round a corner and kill you before you even have time to react. Also, you would have to lead targets that much more to account for both your normal lag and the additional lag timenudge creates. The best situation would be that you would not need to use cl_timenudge, and you should try to do everything else at your disposal before using this command.
With anti-lag servers it is not that big of a deal. Anti-lag servers evaluate hits from weapons based on when the client fired instead of when the server receives the fire command. This is why you don’t have to lead targets in anti-lag games. You can use timenudge to smooth out player movement, but again this does further remove you from current events and opens the door for suprise and ambush. Also, there is a hard cap to how far the server is willing to go back in time to evaluate your shots. So timenudge can push you outside this limit and negate any benefit anti-lag can offer you.
RK
nodgam
(nodgam)
#4
i wish cl_timenudge would be disabled, anyway cl_timenudge in 0 is set on all my servers; timenudge = just another way of cheating :moo:
DG1
(DG)
#5
Please, someone, anyone from SplashDamage make a comment on timenudge, even if just to validate (or otherwise) the unlagged faq. Alternately, poke someone at id to comment in a .plan or something. the timenudge whining doesnt stop, every time threads are killed with the necessarily lenghy explanations as to how timenudge doesnt + cant affect hits vs misses, warping, or whatever, a week later the same fuckers recreate the same bloody thread, as if in complete ignorance of the previous one.
Player A gets headshotted by Player B
Player A: /players
see’s timenudge
Player A: say “f****** cheater”
Player A see’s Player C warping a bit.
/players
see’s timenudge 20
say_team “damn Player C timenudge cheater”
So, quite a few players using timenudge are warping. Does this mean timenudge is causing the warping, or is it the crap connection is making them warp and the crap connection is the reason theyre using timenudge? Discuss.
sups coffee, exits for ciggy
Rippin_Kitten
(Rippin Kitten)
#6
I don’t really see how timenudge could be considered cheating. All you are doing is changing the way the gamestate packets are displayed on your client machine. To everyone else your player will look exactly the same. Negative timenudge will let you see the latest gamestate sooner but everything else will be extrapolated and potentially incorrect (a player who quickly dodges left will look like he’s still going right until you get the new update). Positive timenudge is useful for people with erratic connections so they can “default” to the lowest effective speed their pipe can handle.
They’re just tools to help people get the most out of their connection. Anyone with a good ping and connection will never need to use these commands. But they do allow those who are less fortunate to still play the game.
RK
bogs
(bogs)
#7
all too true rippin kitten… yet it’s still enforced by punkbuster and in most leagues. why? 'cause know how to type /players but don’t know how to read the output.
Kendle
(Kendle)
#8
I’m of a mind to sit on the fence on this one. Like DG says they’ve been plenty of threads about it. A new Tourney is soon to start in the UK and already dozens of posts have been dedicated to should they or shouldn’t they set timenudge to 0.
My own experience is that it seems to make little difference to me. 0, -20, -50, I’ve tried them all and am equally good / bad at all settings it seems. I sometimes lean to the feeling that 0 improves my game a little, but then I could just be having a good day.
As I’m on 600kb Cable I don’t suffer high ping, and so if a League / Tourney / Server Admin tells me negative timenudge is bad and forces me to use 0, it’s no big deal, unlike those poor suckers on their 56k dial-up and ISDN. 
My way of thinking goes like this:- Using timenudge is like asking my PC is make predictions that it can’t possibly make reliably, because my ping is different from everyone else’s, and, like everyone else’s, fluctuates anyway. So what’s the point.
Korollary
(Korollary)
#9
For vanilla RTCW/Q3
timenudge does one thing, which has two results depending on the sign of the value. By default, the game draws frames based on latest snapshot from the server 50ms after it reaches you (50ms = 1/sv_fps ). This condition lets the rendering engine to interpolate between snapshots and player animations look smooth.
By having a positive timenudge, you add to that 50ms, causing some kind of artificial lag (I am not sure if outgoing packets are delayed as well, if yes, then it is correctly simulating the additional lag). Nobody does this for obvious reasons.
By having a negative timenudge up to -50ms, you force some (or all) of the last snapshot to be drawn without interpolation, which can only be done via extrapolation. You get to see the latest as soon as possible, but since there is no interpolation, player animations can be choppy especially from close-up.
Contrary to popular belief, timenudge is not meant to compensate for worse ping than your opponent’s, nor does it any predictions for you. It’s a player’s preference. Some people like smooth animations and can use the interpolated path of the enemy to better predict their maneuvers. Some people like the frames to be drawn as freshly as possible and can deal with the choppy animations. The preference has the same justification whether you have 100 ping or you are on a LAN.
Contrary to popular belief, Antilag and timenudge are not even related. In vanilla RTCW, when your +attack command reached the server, after 100ms or 2 days depending on your ISP, the hitscan computation was being done with respect to where your opponent is RIGHT NOW according to the server. Antilag makes the server go back in time and do the computation with respect to where your opponent was WHEN YOU FIRED according to YOU. Mind you, this doesn’t fix your lag problems despite the cool name. If you have a 100 ping and your opponent has 50, he will still see you 50ms sooner.
Now this has nothing to do what your frame rendering preference is. But normally, if you are used to leading your targets, with antilag on you should quit that habit.
[u]Korollary
SCDS_reyalP
(SCDS_reyalP)
#10
Do you have any justification for that statement ? or are you just repeating something you heard ?
IRT korollary:
Just to add to that, OSP may do things slightly differently, in ways not clearly specified 
In OSP, the server obviously knows your cl_timenudge, since it shows up in /players. Whether the server actually DOES anything with that, or just passes the value on is not clear.
Given that ET has OSP built in, it is reasonable to think that ET does things like RTCW OSP, but that is also not certain.
Arqon (of q3 promode) shared some of his work with the Q3 OSP folks. Here are his comments on TN for Q3 promode and Q3 OSP
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/anaxa/tech_stuff/server_things/timenudge.htm
Again, it seems likely that this is also done in RTCW OSP and ET, but not certain.
It would be really realy nice if one of the splash devs (cough djbob) could step in and tell us what is really going on in ET.
fRaG_Messin
(fRaG*Messin)
#11
the old timenudge arguement always a fun one. I find on some servers I seem out of sync with other players sometimes adjusting my timenudge can bring me more in sync with them other times it makes it worst but I wouldn’t say it was a cheat although some people think it is that don’t use it and other think it is that use it or atleast an advantage I normally use a timenudge of -10 most of the time I found it works well for my connection my brother has same connection but it doesn’t work the same for him I think -15 is the setting we found best worked for him on local servers it wouldn’t bother me to see it restricted more but I think I would avoid overseas servers then