Furthering Merc Identity


(INF3RN0) #61

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;515243]
In a strange way I feel like these ideas are just buffing current synergies…
FO already slightly reduce Ability cool down on direct hits.
Medics also heal quicker throwing a pack on a direct hit.
Medics revive you with respawn protection.
Recons already make calling in Air Strikes more accurate.
Assaults (Fragger, Thunder and Rhino) are already meat shields that offer much more then 8hp more to Aura.

Now, I get these are the easiest to implement but I just hope for much smaller yet more impactful changes.[/QUOTE]

That was sort of the plan actually. I figured that it would be the best chance of being considered if it involved tying together current systems. I do think it would be an improvement, especially on the current patch. Big hitting abilities would be less frequent in this system, but when they did happen it would be the result of an organized effort. While it does seem to encourage 5 man group pushes, that’s not entirely reason for it to happen. Split pushes would still be completely viable, though you would have to think out pairings. The assault+medic will always be an appealing combo, but the recon/fops would still be very capable at providing necessary support in a split. So what these types of synergies would effectively accomplish would be expanding on archetype roles within the team in the sense that there were discernible benefits to cooperative play between mercs and overall positioning strategy.

So basically it would be pushing the archetype roles further in the sense that better team play would output greater ability impact;

Engineer: obj centric, ability buffing (in terms of amount/radius), anti-heal.
Recon: scouting, ability buffing (in terms of stat output, raw dmg/rates), anti-mechanical.
FOPS: Resupply, ability cool down reduction, anti-detection.
Assault: Push leader, damage absorption, anti-artillery.
Medic: Healer, momentum sustain, anti-debuff.

I wouldn’t be so determined to dismantle an entirely theoretical example of how this system could work, but I’ll give my thoughts. Really I don’t view any of these roles creating overly appealing combos or alienating mercs. The example of a medic and a rhino only seems overly powerful because his weapon is too easy to use already for the hp benefit. Still it could be easily countered by a number of strategies or approaches, not to mention nullifying the mini-gun entirely with the use of the immunity counter-ability and the full support medic with something like augmented sticky bombs. If it was a healing station, you could simply attempt to destroy it before a full on engagement. In a typical 1v2 engagement, a perfectly played support medic would still only allow for up to 30 some hp to be returned via vampirsm per killed player, which could easily come in the form of regen instead of instant return- not to say that values or durations can’t be balanced either. Spawn shields would not stack with the effect either, as they are canceled upon shooting. In the case of the 3 medic mercs we have, a station would offer more continual benefit but be limited by its static and vulnerable nature, while a pack would give additional instant hp returns from direct hits and be more mobile, and finally the phoenix aura being a medium of the two with the AoE and mobility. So even though they all function under a uniform synergy, the way they actually work in action would be entirely different.

For a quick recap on the other listed ideas. The engineer friendly augment would essentially buff half of an ability, like AoE radius or capacity, but only for inventoried items on a limited number of players at a time. The recon intel would involve spotting players and marking them with detection, which would buff the other half of abilities by allowing abilities within the vicinity of or used upon them to have a higher output in terms of raw stats, like more damage, bigger heals, faster rates, etc. The FOPS resupply would involve keeping everyone stocked on ammo, which would have a subsequent effect on reducing ability cool downs so that they could be used more frequently. Whenever you were full on ammo, your abilities would be recharging something like 20% faster and let’s say that rate would degrade linearly to the normal rate once you hit 50% capacity. Direct hits could offer an additional 10% (with a total max of 30% cdr) to top it off. The assault meat shield aura is pretty self explanatory.

With a limit of 5 players per team things can get really interesting. If you run a full highlander comp, then you’ll have all of the potential benefits, but you’ll only be able to augment two players abilities at a time. Then you’ll need to make sure that your recon is properly positioned in order to gain the second half of the ability buff, and ensure that the FOPS is able to resupply afterwards. If the abilities hit successfully, then maybe you’d run your assault in the lead, and perhaps you had your engineer augment his meat shield aura. Meanwhile the medic would be keeping everyone resupplied. Then again everything could take a wild swing in the moment if the other team retaliated with counter abilities, turning it into a pure gun fight in that specific moment. Then again you might choose to have a completely different combination of mercs in order to make a certain synergy more available for the entire team. Then when you consider how unique merc tools function under these synergies it furthers the possibilities. I just see it as a very simple first step with a lot of appealing repercussions that just don’t exist at the moment.


(PixelTwitch) #62

Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world…
A world where every single “public” player rolls with a mic, listens to commands or plays the objective.

I think SOME of these ideas are perfectly viable… IN COMPETITIVE play where communication can be assumed.

I do not see this idea adding more depth, just more complexity and they are very different things. My mind boggles at the idea of communicating all this to the players and I really don’t like the idea of falling back into more structured class roles. Honestly, I am trying my dang hardest to envision all that these ideas entail but I always come back to a negative outcome. So, either I have a very twisted view on the whole concept or its just not that viable, especially in a public setting. It seems like its almost brick wall levels of learning block for new players coming in not understanding what on earth is effecting what. I still feel human beings are much simpler creatures than we sometimes give ourselves credit for and action followed by reaction is the most visceral way to encourage depth and understanding in gaming. Sure, you can skip on the interaction if you replace with clear audio visual feedback but when trying to envision that in a system like the one you are proposing, all I see is a cluster #!?£ of a light show. When I try and imagine not having the audio visual feedback, all I can see is confusion, frustration and randomness. Worse than all that is the contempt I can imagine setting in for your own team mates and the reduction in ability to separate from your team and do some special solo strats.

Really, I find your suggestions have a few massive impacts on gameplay and that is not always the right way to go. I am more in favour of many small changes that have a broad yet seemingly shallow effect on depth. Rather than the idea of huge peaks and troughs, adding depth but requiring players to be at that depth as a barrier to entry for a game, actually masks the depth completely. Just like to the average chess player, the game of chess has lots of depth, yet to a grandmaster level player, its all about memorising set plays and move orders and the depth is reduced to that of Tick Tac Toe, all be it much more difficult. True depth is the idea of having the option to do something that requires skill and foresight but never really forcing it from the player.

Let’s look at one of the worst objectives currently in Dirty Bomb…
Underground first objective as defenders. If the Attackers have managed to get a foot hold in the capture zone, what options doe you have to retake?

-A- Place a Nader on the stairs and spam Nades into the area.
-B- Drop a Nader though the hole in the roof and Martyrdom.
-C- Throw in a Molotov.
-D- Stick a Rhino on the roof shooting down onto the Attackers.
-E- Split as Defenders and run around the blown out doors and pincer them.
-…- …
-Z- Concuss with Thunders nade and run in to clear.

These things are all valid aspects of depth, even if they are each a little shallower than most of us would like. The current board stroke synergy you are suggesting makes the difference between the worst and best ways to retake that objective much greater defined. As a result this will reduce the number of acceptable stats (in my opinion). I think one of the biggest reasons we are not seeing the depth in Dirty Bomb is because of things like TTK, Speed and Spam rather than real lack of depth.Saying that, the depth for the weapon variations is very low and lack of meaningful differences in movement ability, literal ability and art direction do have some negative effects. Well, that and the fact the current objective designs just pure suck.


(xdc) #63

some of the suggestions seem to imagintive … but i would agree to passive abilities that can only be given to teammates, example, stoker plants a upgraded ammo station to give ammo that deals additional damage, but he cant pickup the ammo. more teamplay and less loners


(INF3RN0) #64

So maybe my previous attempt at synergies was a bit heavy on uniformity and passives, though I think it was more focused on meta roles within a class scheme for realistic developmental and learning curve manageability. I do think that there should be some uniformity at a basic level, just as all FOPS archetypes provide ammo and all medic archetypes provide heals/revives. So here’s a loose scheme that might be more appealing to someone like pixel, though I still think both have their merits. I still consider all of my previously listed counters valid.

Though it would require more intensive teamwork/coordination, I also like the idea of spontaneous and intuitive interaction triggering the special bonus. Some of these would be immediate combos based on fields/timings, while others could be a time based augmentation (meaning it would expire after X seconds of being transferred). How much these could stack with one another could be pretty flexible under a skill shot/timing based system. Two rough examples of how it could work…

Concussion Grenade

+Explosives (arty, strike, grenade, molotov, conc) = Modified AoE debuff (triggered by explosion).

Ex. Un-cooked conc thrown a moment before explosion occurs or into active explosion field; (1) Airstrike, results in AoE debuff along strike path. (2) Arty, results in multiple short AoE bursts (smaller radius). (3) Molotov, applies reduced debuff to anyone within flame. (4) Grenade, results in larger AoE debuff. (5) Conc, results in double duration.

+Mechanical Device (mine, turret, sticky) = Debuff effect occurs when activated (direct interaction w/ timer expiration).

Ex. Conc is combined via direct interaction, which if triggered within the next X seconds will additionally include the debuff.; (1) Active mine, larger AoE debuff. (2) Active turret, moderate debuff effect applied per hit. (3) Sticky, shorter debuff applied.

+Espionage (smoke, sensor) = Cloaks or triggers the ability (triggered by AoE radius).

Ex. Conc grenade thrown within or through (1) Sensor radius, triggers faster. (2) Active smoke, becomes cloaked.

+Health (stations/packs) = Infuses active packs/stations with additional bonus (direct interaction w/ timer expiration).

Ex. Consumed conc infused; (1) pack, grants increased visual feedback kick on opponents from weapon for X seconds. (2) station, emits small AoE flash bursts for X seconds. (3) pulse, large AoE debuff.

Turret

+Explosives (arty, strike, grenade, molotov, conc) = Modified ammunition (triggered by explosion).

Ex. Turret firing at enemies affected by explosion for X seconds; (1) Airstrike, explosive rounds (high AoE damage). (2) Arty, explosive rounds (longer duration w/ reduced damage). (3) Molotov, incendiary rounds (moderate DoT)---- Direct interaction types, which last for X seconds post-modification (1) Grenade, grenade launching. 2) Conc, debuff rounds.

+Mechanical Device (mine, turret, sticky) = Enhances turret (direct interaction w/ timer expiration).

Ex. Turret is modified via direct interaction, which lasts for X seconds; (1) Mine, destroying the turret results in a large explosion. (2) Turret, supercharges turret with higher damage. (3) Sticky, destroying the turret ejects a few sticky mines.

+Espionage (smoke, sensor) = Triggers faster or cloaks the ability (triggered by AoE radius).

Ex. Turret within (1) Sensor radius, locks on faster. (2) Active smoke, becomes cloaked.

+Health (stations/packs) = Turret is replenished by packs/stations (direct interaction).

Ex. Turret receives or is in radius of; (1) pack, instantly restores HP to turret (2) station, damage dealt is returned to the turret as health (3) pulse, boosts turret max hp.

Obviously with just two examples you can see how complex this would be even if it is much more interesting and diverse, but that’s the boat SD put themselves in with mercs I guess.