fuel dump balancing problem....

(damocles) #1

I see a problem…I guess you could call it an exploit if you want to whine, or you could call it using the map well.

It’s possible, and very easy for two allies, one COps and one Engie to win the map in a couple of minutes flat. All it takes is the tank to blow the small tunnel gate and for the COps to gain a uniform. Then he can let the Engie on top of the central building in front of the dump while the Axis are still spawning at the forward spawn. It matters not if the gates are constructed because the engie jumps onto the top of the fuel dump and plants up there. From here, it’s very difficult for the Axis to disarm as it’s easy to defend the fuel dump for the 30 seconds required.

Like I said, whether it’s an exploit or a good use of the map all depends on your frame of mind. However, I just spent the last 3 rounds on a pub server where myself and one other person repeatedly won in less than five minutes simply because the Axis cannot stop the tank while making sure no sneaky engies are in their base.

Personally, I’d suggest removing the axis locked door on the front of the base altogether. The axis can still leave the base by dropping down, but it prevent COps and an Engie from walking in during the early stages of the game.

I guess it was intended for COps and Engies to team up like this and it is indeed a great combo, but on fuel dump it’s just too strong. And of course, no-one likes losing a round in a few minutes, on either side.

It’s a difficult decision to make thoguh - do you remove the possibility of the two man sneak win in order to blanace the map a little more or do you leave it to promote teamwork between the classes?

(Vengeance) #2

the engie covert team thing is meant to be there as the splash damge readme tells u how to do it

(NoSoup4U) #3

It takes on Axis engineer to : Fortify both the walls and lay teammines.

While he is doing this, he is not actively trying to defend the bridge : But he is setting up the camp, and gaining alot of XP once done with the job.
(and alot of mines around the door entrance can also help if you have a very eager Covert Ops running in :wink: )

(DG) #4

I think as players get used to the game and the map more axis players will block this route. As it is, I ususally find one axis eng clicks on the “feldump” flag during warmup to spawn there, and then gets to work setting mines, constructing the gates etc - a cheap & easy way to build up engineering EXP. The problem perhaps though is eng has to stay around to defend the sneak attack, or more usually, push up to the sewer (often you’ll find a friendly MG42 player or LT defending here aswell - a nice spot to fire out: arty onto the bridge building area where you can hit engi’s building and usually the tank at the same time; and MG42 can cause a lot of pain for allies from here :). If you get attacked too much pull back and defend as they come up the ladder, theyre VERY vulnerable here - covop can throw smoke but respond by throwing grenades into it and pulling back into tunnels more to catch them emerging :slight_smile:

The only problem imho is one that will reduce as players get more experienced with the map, which is where nobody or only yourself is guarding the ladder. Even then, if you stick as eng youve plenty of grenades to throw down it and by respawning at fueldump you always will have a second chance to get them, when theyve got past and you know their coming, be sneaky - camping ontop of the building is a great spot as you can shoot covop coming up the ladder or drop grenades down onto the fencing to kill eng planting there.

One of the better points of the map, promoting good teamplay and adding a lot of options for strategy imho :slight_smile:

(damocles) #5

It’s not that simple - the other day I played against two guys who used the same tactic on two rounds then the teams were switched and despite thier intricate knowledge of the tactic were still unable to defend against the tactic. They were good players too, it’s just such a powerful place to be on the roof that a good pair of players can walk all over the axis team.

(SubstandardJones) #6

You need only a minimal defense to guard from a Blitz like that. A few mines planted around the door can help, although a decent Covert Ops player will scan for mines before running blindly into the depot.

One of the best ways to guard against the blitz? Just set up an mg42 gunner with a line of sight to the door and mow down anyone who is foolish enough to try and get in. If the fortifications are built, then you just have to kill the covert ops, and that gives you a full minute to get reinforcements there to kill the eng and/or disarm any dynamite he has to plant.

A field ops might be able to airstrike the MG42 guy out of there, but if that’s going on, you have more than just a simple blitz, and it’s time to get more guys on defense.

Yes, the Allies can blitz if there’s a lackluster axis team that’s only focusing on fighting for the bridge. But if you allocate a few resources to protecting the depot, you shouldn’t have any problem at all.

(Sacrifice) #7

I would disagree. The only cause of this problem is a poor defense.

I almost always play as an Engineer. The first thing I do when playing Axis is build up a defense around the Fuel Dump. I do not think anybody as ever made it by those defenses before the the first door is destroyed by the tank. A few nicely placed mines always does the trick.

(Vengeance) #8

Sacriface gets my vote - if you dont build your defences first axis i consider that your problem and deserve what you get.

(RivrStyx) #9

It keeps you on your toes…or it should anyway and adds more than a 1 directional assualt with having to get the tank thruogh if it can be pulled off…

(damocles) #10

I almost always play as an Engineer. The first thing I do when playing Axis is build up a defense around the Fuel Dump

Actually, that does more harm than good against this attack Gthe engie is let onto the roof by the COps, and then he plants inside the gates of the fuel dump, meaning the Axis have to go via the ooftops as well in order to get inside the gates. And the rooftop is very easy to defend once you’re up there.

I’m not saying it’s impossible to defend against, I’m just saying it’s very difficult, even if you know what’s coming. In clan games, there would be people willing to sit back and wait at the fuel depot, ignoring the action, just in case. But at the end of the day, the game is meant for public play, not clan only play, and very few public players will sit and wait around in the fuel dump.

The other drawback to waiting around in the fuel dump, “just in case”, is that the waiters will get very little experience, putting them at a disadvantage in campaign games.

(Vengeance) #11

Democles Your post is exactly why i like the game so much, you have to consider all of the options and put a lot of thought into how your gonna play the game. Wolfenstein is the only FPS game i can play because of the reasons mentioned. Other FPS games seem too focoused on fragging each other like quake and others.

I like ET because its a tactical warfare game and if you make the wrong decision it can cost the game.

(Sacrifice) #12

While two players getting on the roof is no doubt a possibility, when I play they rarely get by into the Fuel Depot base to begin with. People never seem to check for mines near the front door. :slight_smile: I usually stick around the fuel depot base and call for help if I need it.

(bani) #13

i put a mine on the outside of the front door and a couple on the inside. they always think they spotted mines on the outside and are home free :smiley: