Fragger desperately needs a nerf

(titan) #1

So Fragger is a lot of fun to play and he’s pretty much my main in competitive / match making but let’s keep it real he reallyyy needs a nerf. Frag grenades are so out of control right now the potential to consistently kill 2, 3, 4 people in an instant is just way too powerful compared to other mercs.

Competitive matches are ending with fraggers on 30, 40, 50 kills and medics on 10-15 and even less at times assuming it’s not a stomp.

I was thinking maybe this is by design and heavies / assaults really are the name of the game in dirty bomb and other classes are meant to support them but like, what is going to happen when thunder comes out? Let’s say that their guns are of equal strength (fragger’s is probably better but for this let’s just say they’re equal) why would anyone pick thunder for a flash bang when instead of flashing them you can just instagib them? His nerf is without a doubt inevitable and it’s just a question of how long this fragger meta is going to be drawn out.

I wouldn’t even change his gun or hp they’re strong for sure but he has zero utility and his potential for flanking and spraying down teams is fun but not obnoxious. It’s the frag grenades in my opinion that need to be fixed.

The damage and instagib potential I actually like, sort of like a vasili it’s fraggers job to get a pick the team can move in on, it’s just too powerful right now.

Suggested fixes!

  • One frag grenade
  • 45 second cooldown as opposed to 30
  • Stop fragger from cooking a grenade then swapping weapons to cancel it, once it’s primed he has to commit to the throw

So, please consider nerfing him. Go watch some match making games with high skilled players and watch the fragger chaos unfold!!

(LiNkzr) #2

I agree, on that note, I’m extremely sad that we couldn’t play the tournament to show people for real how fragger is destroying dreams and hopes. teams running 3 fraggers and 2 medics just because fragger is so good. You don’t even need engineer if you just kill everything right? ammo you get by suiciding and who needs snipers? Sky might be used to destroy EV and even that 3 fraggers could do.

I know at least 3 teams that use 3 fraggers 90% of the time. and I think ALL the other teams have at least 2 fraggers all the time.

well grenades are way too good, fragger and the concept of having a “Heavy” mercenary is totally okay. It’s just ****ed up at the moment.

(Rémy Cabresin) #3

Fragger isn’t OP. Multiple Fraggers is OP. With the current system there is no limitation to mercs and any combination would be annoying as ****. I played a mix the other day when we had 4 proxies on our team on defense and enemy went full retard madness because of all the mines everywhere and the jumping around. Playing vs 2/3/4 Skyhammers in comp is a nightmare too cuz the EV just barely moves forward if your team is well organised.

(titan) #4

You sure about that?

(Rémy Cabresin) #5

100% sure.

(fubar) #6

Meh. All it needs is a decrease in travel speed for the nades. Fragger’s fine, his gun’s fine, ability is fine. Just reduce the travel speed of nades. People constantly use 3/4 fragger’s vs us, it really isn’t something you can’t deal with, believe it or not, nades can be dodged and predicted quite easily.

(Szakalot) #7

travel speed would be the best nerf: keeps the potential but increases skill cap, and provides counterplay.

(ragnak) #8

lol@“his gun is fine”. There is no reason to use m4 or br16 over his MG, not even a single one, so how is this fine ? At the very least his grenades needs to travel slower, he needs to cook them longer and his mg needs to be harder to use or lose some damage and even after that he would probably be the best merc in the game.

(Rémy Cabresin) #9

Wrong, his MG(K121) has no cards with Explodydendron. If you want to use Fragger to the best of his abilities you can drop the K121 for M4. Don’t disagree that the MG is really strong, but having higher potential nades can outway higher rifle dmg. M4 is still a very strong rifle, especially after the recoil decrease buff.

(ragnak) #10

M4 is insanely strong but i still dont see how would anyone want to take m4 over MG just for a single augument that isnt even important (i would take drilled over explodydendron any day for example). Even if you get weaker auguments with MG its still silly to keep the weapon this overpowered. Easy to control, high damage with huge magazine size gun on a merc with ton of HP ? No thanks.

#11

Currently lots of people just run around shooting, trying to be succesfull.

Knowing how to play is the most OP thing.

A squishy 80 HP carrying a tiny SMG can easily solo-kill a tanky 150HP carrying LMG
How? With mapawareness (+ great aiming)
Just aim alone will get your wrecked. Need to be tactical too. (Do not attack from front, attack instead from behind or the side)

If you wanna attack nontactical, rambostyle, from the front, which is great fun and takes much skill in tracking, movement, you still are very obvious and easy target.

Fragger without support vs Fragger (who got support medics and ammo guys): the better tactical setup will win.

Is your merc currently not a good idea to play on the map? Then pick one that fit this part of the map better.

Running around without strategy (not knowing weaknesses/strengths or not knowing how to apply them to maps) will be your flaw as a player.
Rambo strat with OP aiming skills just takes you so far. There is much more depth to discover imo

TL DR
Not OP. Strong, and good for many things, but not OP

(ragnak) #12

[QUOTE=JBRAA;525411]Currently lots of people just run around shooting, trying to be succesfull.

Knowing how to play is the most OP thing.

A squishy 80 HP with a tiny SMG can easily solo-kill a tanky 150HP with LMG
How? With mapawareness (+ great aiming)
Just aim alone will get your wrecked. Need to be tactical too.

Running around without strategy (not knowing weaknesses/strengths or not knowing how to apply them to maps) will be your flaw as a player.
Rambo strat with OP aiming skills just takes you so far. There is much more depth to discover imo

TL DR
Not OP. Strong, and good for many things, but not OP[/QUOTE]

…What if i told you that not every fragger is a mindless drone ? Can you kill fragger from the back ? Yes. Can you kill fragger with an airstrike ? Yes. Does it mean he is balanced ? No.

Also, how does mapawarness help you against a competent team with good communication ? You can flank fragger, fragger can flank you as well, difference here is that if i get shot from behind by proxy i can turn around and kill her, thats hardly possible against fragger that can aim because not only he have more hp than you but also sport stronger gun than you.

Also what weakness does fragger possess ? He is slighly slower than medium mercs, but its not easier to hit his head because of it and without it you cant even dream about killing him and what if he already have a good camping position where you cant flank ? You are not a fragger, you wont clear him from the room, you cant poke him because he can simply blow you with a nade and you cant directly confront him because he is the best duelist in the game.

Sure if he had smg and not long range weapon then his speed might be important but he doesnt.

He synergise with team better than other mercs, mostly because of his hp. You need to spend more bullet to kill him meaning that you need to reload more often, he is also harder to burst when he made an mistake. Skyhammer might be better at some parts but fragger nades are way less risky than airstrike and you have 2 nades. He is also a boss for every single map in the game, you cant say the same about skyhammer.

I could probably go for at least 30 mins more but your only argument on why fragger isnt overpowered is getting better and use team play, as if fragger couldnt do both of those things. So unless you plan on providing some real arguments other then generic “Knowing how to play is the most OP thing” (because fraggers cant possibly know how to play) i wont even bother (especially that you dont even give an example, aside from outplaying fragger -_-).

#13

[QUOTE=ragnak;525415]Also what weakness does fragger possess ?

(because fraggers cant possibly know how to play)[/QUOTE]

Fragger weakness

  • No ammo support
  • No medic support
  • Cant defuse or plant fast
  • Cant repair fast
  • Cant scout / run ahead and fix objectives fast
  • Slow movement

Fraggers can know how to play

LMG or AR makes him a general purpose class.
General purpose is stronger than a specific targeted class, since its more usefull in all ranges

Skyhammer with M4 is also general purpose class + ammo support

SMG, shotgun, sniper classes are bad on long or short ranges, and is not a general purpose.

Imo he is strong, but not OP. We dont need to agree.

(ragnak) #14

[QUOTE=JBRAA;525418]Fragger weakness

  • No ammo support
  • No medic support
  • Cant defuse or plant fast
  • Cant repair fast
  • Cant scout / run ahead and fix objectives fast
  • Slow movement

Fraggers can know how to play

Fragger is a general purpose class.
General purpose is stronger than a specific targeted class, since its more usefull in more areas.

Imo he is strong, but not OP. We dont need to agree.[/QUOTE]

I can only agree to disagree, so will leave it at that.

#15

Yep

Though for me “OP” is when its broken

A bit too strong? Maybe, I dont know the skill of the players I meet. Maybe they are aweful.
Also more mercs are coming, atleast 14 total offical mercs. We got 7 now?
So claiming OP with only 7 mercs isnt logical. Just wait maybe

However right now, if 7 mercs were all we would ever have, then sure:

  • Cooldown on nades is pretty generous though.
  • Could need ammo packs to recharge 25% of cool down
(INF3RN0) #16

I’ve said it a lot. There’s no issue of making fragger the lead push, which is why he has nades and extra HP. But why does it have to be so easy… Fragger is pure performance enhancement and is practically unchallengeable if an above average player uses him. Games are won by the superior fragger in the current state of the game. He should really take the same amount of effort as vasilli, who also packs a similar punch but takes a lot more skill input.

I think the main issues with fragger are the nades and k121. Nades need a reason for discouraging cooking them everytime, and so that if you do cook them you need to be extremely accurate with where they are landing. The k121 is just too easy to use for how strong it is. Needs more recoil. Needs less body shot damage; 2.5x mp while keeping the current hs max. And does it really need the best fall-off damage scaling? Honestly I wouldn’t even mind a slight nerf to fraggers overall move speed or just when using the k121 just to make him more reliant on a medic in general, and giving the other weapon loadouts more appeal as a result. It’s not that fragger is just an issue amongst non-assault, but that he is simply the best merc in the game without any downside.

(ragnak) #17

[QUOTE=JBRAA;525423]Yep

Though for me “OP” is when its broken

A bit too strong? Maybe, I dont know the skill of the players I meet. Maybe they are aweful.
Also more mercs are coming, atleast 14 total offical mercs. We got 7 now?
So claiming OP with only 7 mercs isnt logical. Just wait maybe

However right now, if 7 mercs were all we would ever have, then sure:

  • Cooldown on nades is pretty generous though.
  • Could need ammo packs to recharge 25% of cool down[/QUOTE]

He is broken and it doesnt matter how many more mercs there will be as i simply cant see any of them being a counter to fragger (especially that i was here when there was more mercs, he was still op) unless every new merc will be overpowered but then you would need to buff almost every single merc from current lineup.

Think what you want, im not going to change my mind on fragger, we could even argue about healing station but fragger is simply broken to the point that there isnt a single counter to him.

(Rémy Cabresin) #18

Agree to disagree I suppose. Eventho I barely play Fragger, having played with both the rifles and different cards I will take the extra nade radius over the MG. Especially with the M4 being as strong as it is right now, K121 is op in close quarters but I feel on longer ranges it’s complete garbage.

(titan) #19

Some of these comments are painful to read lol, competitive players know whats actually going on and pub heroes will continue to defend him, whatever, game is gonna be awful til he’s nerfed simple as

(Nail) #20

lol. competitive players don’t know Jack, other than the accountants, they’re the only ones with an agenda

remember, those “pub heros” are 95% of the players and likely 98% of the income