Forward Spawning + Bot AI Adaption

(TONSCHUH) #1

Hi,

would it be possible to give us the option to re-spawn at the last captured command post or the closest captured command post ?

It’ pretty much annoying if you make some progress somewhere on a map and have to run all the way back all over the map and find all the enemies / bots back at the same spot.

Another thing is the AI of the bots especially the team mate ones. It’s almost unpossible to win a map, if you’re not a great player, because to rely on your bot mates brings you nowhere. That the enemy bots are heatshot machines makes the situation even worse.

It would be nice if the team bots would adapt to your actual skills and act more smarter if you’re not so good today and go more for the main objectives and / or stand more on your side for the fight.

The enemy bot AI should adapt more flexible too. There are so many ways to gain the XP points to level up, but the enemy AI seems to be static leveling up only compared to your gained XP / Rank.

This makes the game sometimes pretty hard for casual or new players.

The challenges are to hard for normal players too. Plenty players will level up, but will end up without the extras behind the challenges.

If this little things would be changed a little bit it would be not such important anymore how the weapon details are.

The game is at the moment more for skilled players.

(KnollDark) #2

I would like forward respawn but as for Bots, I think they are working on it with the DLC, all should be good when that happens

(TONSCHUH) #3

… forward re-spawning would be great … I don’t know how often a average player uses the command post for changing some things, but I’m only capturing them and that’s it … :slight_smile:

… would make it easier to keep your progress going … :slight_smile:

:stroggtapir:

(Spendlove) #4

[QUOTE=TONSCHUH;347939]… forward re-spawning would be great … I don’t know how often a average player uses the command post for changing some things, but I’m only capturing them and that’s it … :slight_smile:

… would make it easier to keep your progress going … :slight_smile:

:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

I would love to be able to forward spawn like other ET games. I only ever use them to change weapon or resupply ammo. My characters are just not geared up towards multi classes (yet).

(TONSCHUH) #5

… I’m playing at the moment with a character which is focused on the soldier ability’s …

… about the AI: …

… I don’t want to kill easier, but I want to survive longer … I’m mostly through the campaign on “hard”, so I should be around an average player thought … so if players like me want to bite in there keyboard sometimes, how will a less skilled player feel ? … let’s hope that SD makes some little changes to the AI with the upcoming DLC and / or updates …

… if the frustration is higher then the fun, plenty will stop playing the game thought …

… but I’m still happy that we got this game from SD and like to play it a few times a week … :slight_smile:

:stroggtapir:

(Kurushi) #6

Forward spawns is just lazy and would completely ruin the balance of the maps. It’s not going to happen without a lot of work and kinda pointless.

It’s an incentive to not tap out straight away and stick together as a team.

We’ve all done it, run in on our own staggered from the rest of the team. Stick together and medics won’t be far off

(TONSCHUH) #7

[QUOTE=Kurushi;348029]Forward spawns is just lazy and would completely ruin the balance of the maps. It’s not going to happen without a lot of work and kinda pointless.

It’s an incentive to not tap out straight away and stick together as a team.

We’ve all done it, run in on our own staggered from the rest of the team. Stick together and medics won’t be far off[/QUOTE]

… at the moment I would not need the command posts at all, because my pips recharges fast enough and I don’t change my character / weapon within a running game … if both sides would be able to spawn forward, capturing the command post would make more sense … why wasting time by capturing the command post if you are dead before you need the command post and have to re-spawn at the first command post again … it would give your team a time advantage, if you’re able to capture and keep a command post close to your next main objective …

… we could have a option in the settings and we could make it possible that the server settings overwrite the local settings, so everyone would be still able to decide in which way they want to play …

:stroggtapir:

(Kurushi) #8

[QUOTE=TONSCHUH;348057]… at the moment I would not need the command posts at all, because my pips recharges fast enough and I don’t change my character / weapon within a running game … if both sides would be able to spawn forward, capturing the command post would make more sense … why wasting time by capturing the command post if you are dead before you need the command post and have to re-spawn at the first command post again … it would give your team a time advantage, if you’re able to capture and keep a command post close to your next main objective …

… we could have a option in the settings and we could make it possible that the server settings overwrite the local settings, so everyone would be still able to decide in which way they want to play …

:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

CPs can make all the difference, especially once upgraded, yet they’re accessible to both teams quite easily.

Spawning on CPs just wouldn’t work without a massive redesign. Maybe I’m the only person that doesn’t think running takes too long, unless I’m constantly going in rambo, then it gets boring, but that’s my fault.

(zenstar) #9

[QUOTE=TONSCHUH;348057]… at the moment I would not need the command posts at all, because my pips recharges fast enough and I don’t change my character / weapon within a running game … if both sides would be able to spawn forward, capturing the command post would make more sense … why wasting time by capturing the command post if you are dead before you need the command post and have to re-spawn at the first command post again … it would give your team a time advantage, if you’re able to capture and keep a command post close to your next main objective …

… we could have a option in the settings and we could make it possible that the server settings overwrite the local settings, so everyone would be still able to decide in which way they want to play …

:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

Having a supply CP not only gives you more pips but also means the enemy doesn’t get those pips. Not to mention the health CP is awesome especially after a friendly engineer upgrades it.

If you never run out of pips you’re not throwing enough grenades. If you never need to grab more ammo at a CP then you’re not shooting enough or you’re respawning too often.

CPs are powerful at the moment without a forward respawn on them.

(TONSCHUH) #10

[QUOTE=zenstar;348066]Having a supply CP not only gives you more pips but also means the enemy doesn’t get those pips. Not to mention the health CP is awesome especially after a friendly engineer upgrades it.

If you never run out of pips you’re not throwing enough grenades. If you never need to grab more ammo at a CP then you’re not shooting enough or you’re respawning too often.

CPs are powerful at the moment without a forward respawn on them.[/QUOTE]

… firstly thanks for the additional info about the CP …

… maybe I should overlook my character or put the abilities together in a different way …

… as hardly no ones has my point of view, I’m maybe playing the game wrong (?) … maybe I’m not playing team orientated enough (?) …

… maybe the problem only exists in campaign mode, because of the lag of human players (?) …

… I will have a further look into FreePlay to see if there is a noticeable difference to the campaign …

:confused:

(Smoochy) #11

[QUOTE=Kurushi;348029]Forward spawns is just lazy and would completely ruin the balance of the maps. It’s not going to happen without a lot of work and kinda pointless.

It’s an incentive to not tap out straight away and stick together as a team.

We’ve all done it, run in on our own staggered from the rest of the team. Stick together and medics won’t be far off[/QUOTE]

+1. brink is the game where ive seen the most people waiting for medics. also, with only 8v8 you might get wave spawns split between 2 spawns, meaning less people together. i like the fact that you often spawn with others. we dont want loads of lone wolves

(wolfnemesis75) #12

Not a fan of forward spawn because it promotes respawning. In many FPS games it is fine to respawn, but in Brink it is not necessarily the best option. The goal ultimately is not to respawn at all. and I have had matches where I never respawned and was the attacking team. You want to take better care of you life, which is a skill. Many talk about skill on this forum. I think not dying is a skill. Wait for a medic. Or try not to go down.

(zenstar) #13

^this.
Seen way too many people just respawn, sometimes as a medic is throwing them a syringe.

You’re stronger on the front lines than you are running around looking for the fight. Sometimes the best option is to hide around a corner and wait for your health to regen. Hopefully the new medic whatsit will help people heal up and come back in quicker to prevent people going down.

Obviously if the closest medic is 30 seconds run away then it may be better to respawn and come up behind them or if you’re in a funny area (like operatives dying behind the lines) then don’t expect a medic to go massively out of his way to get to you.

Hide when your health is low and wait for a medic if you can / it’s viable.

(DarkangelUK) #14

Not disputing your opinion, just trying to get some perspective on it. Have you played games where sacrificing man power to capture and hold a forward spawn is part of the equation? I’m mainly talking about the normal games here like RtCW, W:ET and ETQW.

It adds something to both ends of the scale. The attackers can choose to push their full power to the front and attack the primary objective, or sacrifice some players and time to capture a forward spawn, but in the long run it reduces travel time to the main objective. The defenders need to decide whether to put their full power to defending the main objective, but giving the enemy the advantage of the reduced travel time, or again spend some man power defending it and making things more difficult for the attackers… especially if it’s recaptured mid-way through an offensive attack and it splits the enemy team up.

As for promoting respawning… i would never use that as a basis for or against forward spawns, as there’s far more to it than that, and that’s just a frivolous part of the equation in the grand scheme of things.

(wolfnemesis75) #15

[QUOTE=zenstar;348149]^this.
Seen way too many people just respawn, sometimes as a medic is throwing them a syringe.

You’re stronger on the front lines than you are running around looking for the fight. Sometimes the best option is to hide around a corner and wait for your health to regen. Hopefully the new medic whatsit will help people heal up and come back in quicker to prevent people going down.

Obviously if the closest medic is 30 seconds run away then it may be better to respawn and come up behind them or if you’re in a funny area (like operatives dying behind the lines) then don’t expect a medic to go massively out of his way to get to you.

Hide when your health is low and wait for a medic if you can / it’s viable.[/QUOTE]

Duck and cover if your health is low. I believe most FPS games you ignore the health bar, but in Brink, you should be glancing at it often, if only to make sure you have those command post buffs or health buffs. If you are sticking close to team mates, then you should be in range for a medic, or stay upright with support. Obviously, when playing as Operative you may find yourself behind enemy lines, and have to respawn; hopefully you accomplished your mission before you went down. :slight_smile:

(zenstar) #16

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;348170]Not disputing your opinion, just trying to get some perspective on it. Have you played games where sacrificing man power to capture and hold a forward spawn is part of the equation? I’m mainly talking about the normal games here like RtCW, W:ET and ETQW.

It adds something to both ends of the scale. The attackers can choose to push their full power to the front and attack the primary objective, or sacrifice some players and time to capture a forward spawn, but in the long run it reduces travel time to the main objective. The defenders need to decide whether to put their full power to defending the main objective, but giving the enemy the advantage of the reduced travel time, or again spend some man power defending it and making things more difficult for the attackers… especially if it’s recaptured mid-way through an offensive attack and it splits the enemy team up.

As for promoting respawning… i would never use that as a basis for or against forward spawns, as there’s far more to it than that, and that’s just a frivolous part of the equation in the grand scheme of things.[/QUOTE]

The forward spawning makes sense in the larger maps that those games had, but I think Brink’s maps are small enough and the movement is quick enough to not need forward spawning. The only place where it makes sense is CCity and there it’s an automatic switch of spawn points once you pass a certain objective. (plus i guess all the mid-level cutscenes are forced forward spawns in a sense).

If Brink got larger maps then I’d agree that some sort of forward spawning could be cool. But as it is I think it’s too much. (Although I do miss the strogg’s ability to “create” spawn points).

(wolfnemesis75) #17

Long spawns also force you to Parkour your butt off. no lolly gagging. Movement. Its all about Movement. Don’t get complacent. Don’t have the attitude. Oh well, i’ll just respawn.

(DarkangelUK) #18

That must be your attitude then or you’re going on a guess rather than experience, I’ve not seen it replicated. The most reasons seen for choosing to respawn in those games were mainly due to the lack of team work, medics not reviving or fops not handing out ammo. With the CP’s supplying ammo that’s one reason down (not every CP has to be a forward spawn)… with regards to medics not doing their job, well that can’t be helped regardless. Respawning still sends you back and away from the action and gives the enemy time to regroup, if someone actively chooses to fallback to spawn for no reason when there’s medics available, then that’s the attitude of the player at fault there.

(nephandys) #19

[QUOTE=TONSCHUH;348057]… at the moment I would not need the command posts at all, because my pips recharges fast enough and I don’t change my character / weapon within a running game … if both sides would be able to spawn forward, capturing the command post would make more sense … why wasting time by capturing the command post if you are dead before you need the command post and have to re-spawn at the first command post again … it would give your team a time advantage, if you’re able to capture and keep a command post close to your next main objective …

… we could have a option in the settings and we could make it possible that the server settings overwrite the local settings, so everyone would be still able to decide in which way they want to play …

:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

Uh…if you aren’t running out of pips ever you probably aren’t using your skills as much as you could/should. I mean you shouldn’t be out of pips all the time, but there’s reasons that skills like scavenge are in the game…Maybe you’re just playing campaign/sp? or maybe you only run as Op? (not that they never run out, but w/o having to give out buffs they’re a little better off). I mean in multiplayer as long as the teams are pretty evenly matched and especially when your on offense having the supply CP is almost a must and the health is then a nice bonus on top.

I also use CP’s all the time. One good example is in Fashionista on Resort. If you sit at supply CP with a friend and are killing the enemy while they work on hacking the door or they run up from their spawn the CP equals infinite ammo and allows you to switch class to anything you need in a pinch. Most frequently I’ll be there with a friend, he goes down, I switch to medic, rez him, and switch back to a more offensive role.

I’m not saying not using the CP’s is going make you lose, but they are definitely advantage and can help decide the winner in a match (especially when you are already at a disadvantage from the start while on offense). I find most newer players simply blow off the CP’s as unimportant, but they are extremely useful.

My thoughts on forward spawning in this game, bad idea. I think this would cause ridiculous amounts of imbalance.

(Seatsniffer) #20

I like respawning way back on the map, especially when I respawn together with a couple of teammates…on our way to objective, we have all the time to buff and get buffed, and arrive in good shape :stuck_out_tongue: